An Awkward Moment in the Pre-tribulationists’ Honeymoon...

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

That is just a jumble of scriptures.

Now can you tell my what does it mean for millions of people to `marry` the Lord?

If you can't understand those scriptures I would be wasting my time, a 5 year old could understand those facts. 

The Bride of Christ descends in the New Jerusalem, we do not stay on earth for 1000 years.............Reading the verses as they are clues us in. In Rev. 20:4 it clearly says ONLY those who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast live and serve with Jesus on earth for 1000 years. 

That means the church, BODY, the rest of us..............go back to heaven and no doubt we help finish off the New Jerusalem then descend in the New Jerusalem.

[The Light]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

It seems you have `cut and pasted,` with the word `wrath. This seems to be your time line where you join the two wrath words together.

.....I.......70th week...(6th seal wrath)...I....1,260 God`s wrath.....>

It seems that the great tribulation is the dragon going after the seed of the woman. It also seems that would not be the wrath of God. So those are not two wrath words that I have joined together as there is a difference between tribulation brought on believers by the dragon and wrath brought on unbelievers by God. You are saying that they are the same thing and obviously they are not.

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

 

However that is not what God`s word says. Note Dan. 12: 12. The time after the 70th week is for mourning, cleansing and rejoicing.

Here is Daniel 12:10-12.

¹⁰ Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

First off, there is nothing in these verses that have a thing to do with mourning, cleansing and rejoicing.

Second off, the 1335 days is when Jesus returns for the gathering. That would be the end of the 70th week of Daniel.

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

1,260 A/C 7 his armies deal with. (Rev. 13: 5)

Rev 13

⁵ And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

This is the first beast who was and is and is to come. He will be the eighth and is of the 7.  On a side note, note that he is given a mouth.

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

1,290 Israel mourns. (Zech. 12: 10 - 14)

Here is Zech 12:10-14

¹⁰ And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

¹¹ In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

¹² And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

¹³ The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

¹⁴ All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

There is nothing here about 1290 days. The 1290 days are about there being 1290 days from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination of desolation is set up.

The verses that you are pointing to in Zechariah have to do with the return of Jesus at the very end of the wrath of God.

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

1,290 + 30, temple cleansed & polluted water made fresh. (Dan. 12: 11)

Daniel 12:11

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

There is nothing in Daniel 12 having anything to do with 30 days, temple cleansing and polluted water made fresh.

The 1290 days are about there being 1290 days from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination of desolation is set up

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

1,290 + 30 + 15, - 15th 0f Adar the Celebration of Purim, National Deliverance. (1,335 days. Blessed is he....  Dan. 12: 12)

Dan 12

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So you appear to be grabbing 1290 days which is about there being 1290 days from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination of desolation is set up and you are adding 30 days from what, I don't know. (Could you explain where the 30 days comes from?) and then you are adding 15 days for no reason. The 15 days is a DATE, the 15th of the Jewish month of Adar. You can't equate 15 days to a date the 15th. They have nothing to do with each other.

The 1335 days is 1335 days from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away until the return of Jesus for the gathering in Matt 24. This is not the return of Jesus when He will set up His kingdom at the end of wrath. It is the return of Jesus for the 12 twelve tribes across the earth before wrath begins. It is the gathering from heaven and earth. That day will not take the believer unaware. The believers in those days will know when He is coming. The Church will not know when He comes to rapture them.

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, Diaste said:

"I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

This is all I see.

Hi Diaste,

The holy city, looked for by the OT saints, comes down out of heaven, and is described as a bride. It is NOT a bride, and people do not have a `honeymoon` with Jesus or any of that nonsense. It is a description of FUNCTION. Just as Jesus is described as a `lamb,` He is NOT an animal, a lamb, but it describes a function He did - lay down His life as a lamb to the slaughter.

So also the city that comes down out of heaven from God, it is described as a `bride,` because of its function. The rulership in the highest heaven, (the Lord and His Body) connect with the rulership in the city and together they are all under the Lordship of Christ.

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If you can't understand those scriptures I would be wasting my time, a 5 year old could understand those facts. 

The Bride of Christ descends in the New Jerusalem, we do not stay on earth for 1000 years.............Reading the verses as they are clues us in. In Rev. 20:4 it clearly says ONLY those who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast live and serve with Jesus on earth for 1000 years. 

That means the church, BODY, the rest of us..............go back to heaven and no doubt we help finish off the New Jerusalem then descend in the New Jerusalem.

You muddled up the Body of Christ (Rev. 4: 5) with the `wife` of the Lamb, (Rev. 19: 7) If you look carefully at Rev. 19: 4 you will see the Body of Christ and they are already in the throne room.

The city is for the OT saints as they were promised it. The Body of Christ is promised a `greater dominion, ` (something better, Heb. 11: 40)

We will be with the Lord seated, (as it were) on His own throne in the highest heaven, and definitely do NOT come down out of Heaven from God. That is error & leads to demoting Christ who is pre-eminent over all.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, The Light said:

 

 

I believe if you do a time line of your thoughts you will see where you are in error.

[1to3]

On 5/1/2020 at 2:17 AM, NonProfitProphet said:

So no one is really concerned that you are claiming to be an instrument in killing millions of people and leaving their bodies to rot and be eaten by animals?! This is what pre-trib doctrine is about- this is part of your reward that you claim. 
 

Whether you “read the scripture literally” or not, no where does it teach that Christians will be used of God to kill the rest of mankind. Why would a bride be given this assignment? I’ve literally had pre-tribbers tell me they were looking forward to killing me when they “return” as an army. That’s ludicrous! God insists we love our enemies, but forces us to kill His enemies for Him?! Really?!

I personally never saw that we will return to kill people. There is a part of the bible that says we will judge, but again I have read different points of view on that by different scholars, and it does not necessarily mean we will be the ones authorizing or judging anything. I think in the best case scenario we will be witnesses to seeing Gods Light overpower and burn darkness  , but I certainly would not want to be judging anyone, and certainly not killing anyone. Also I do not see God as a cruel punisher as some do, I see Him as the Word says, that God is Light and no darkness can enter His Light. It more a mathematical equation as God is Law and His Law does not change See 1 John ch1.   We Christians only enter into Gods light by the Blood covering of His only begotten Son Christ Jesus, who has plead the Blood over us to make us acceptable to enter into Gods light. Christ paid the penalty for our sins and sickness to redeem us from the power of sin darkness, and through Christ and Christ alone we can reunite into Gods Light.

Light overpowers darkness all the time.( just go into a dark room and light a match and see how light overpowers darkness) Its a matter of physics, mathematical equations, Gods LAW.  God is Law and does not change but is Eternal . Its not a matter of God being cruel or we in Christ being cruel. Its about God being Pure Light and darkness not able to enter into the light as Gods light always overpowers and burns away darkness

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Diaste,

The holy city, looked for by the OT saints, comes down out of heaven, and is described as a bride. It is NOT a bride, and people do not have a `honeymoon` with Jesus or any of that nonsense. It is a description of FUNCTION. Just as Jesus is described as a `lamb,` He is NOT an animal, a lamb, but it describes a function He did - lay down His life as a lamb to the slaughter.

So also the city that comes down out of heaven from God, it is described as a `bride,` because of its function. The rulership in the highest heaven, (the Lord and His Body) connect with the rulership in the city and together they are all under the Lordship of Christ.

I do believe that's true. It's a 'marriage' of Christ's authority with the symbol of that authority. All that has been foretold comes together in this powerful wedding of the Authority with the seat of that Authority.

The 'marriage supper' being the celebration of Jesus taking His well earned 'great authority' in the city that is the seat of power over all, and we are the invited guests to that great party.

 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

I do believe that's true. It's a 'marriage' of Christ's authority with the symbol of that authority. All that has been foretold comes together in this powerful wedding of the Authority with the seat of that Authority.

The 'marriage supper' being the celebration of Jesus taking His well earned 'great authority' in the city that is the seat of power over all, and we are the invited guests to that great party.

 

That`s great we both see Christ`s authority in that city. However we need to realise that the city comes down from God. Jesus is God and so His seat of power and authority is in the higher realm. The city is described as a `bride` because of the glory of God in it, and that as we both agree it His great power and authority and holiness. We also see the `throne of God the Father and the Lamb are there, meaning their authority, but NOT their seat of power & authority.

God`s eternal throne is beyond the created order as He made everything. Then the Father desires His Son in His visible form to rule from the highest realm of His kingdom. Thus the third heaven is where the Lord will rule from, with His Body.

The `Bride` purpose connects the two realms - spiritual and physical and brings the rulerships all under Christ. A wonderful pictorial representation of the `two (purposes) becoming one,` in harmony in Christ.

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

That`s great we both see Christ`s authority in that city. However we need to realise that the city comes down from God. Jesus is God and so His seat of power and authority is in the higher realm. The city is described as a `bride` because of the glory of God in it, and that as we both agree it His great power and authority and holiness. We also see the `throne of God the Father and the Lamb are there, meaning their authority, but NOT their seat of power & authority.

God`s eternal throne is beyond the created order as He made everything. Then the Father desires His Son in His visible form to rule from the highest realm of His kingdom. Thus the third heaven is where the Lord will rule from, with His Body.

The `Bride` purpose connects the two realms - spiritual and physical and brings the rulerships all under Christ. A wonderful pictorial representation of the `two (purposes) becoming one,` in harmony in Christ.

 

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,a for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death 

or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”"

By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory. Its gates will never be shut at the end of the day, because there will be no night there.

And into the city will be brought the glory and honor of the nations. But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who practices an abomination or a lie, 

"

Looks to me like the comes 'down' from heaven to earth. It's unmistakable that "the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them." not, the dwelling place of man is with God. And where does man dwell? On earth. God, Jesus, is on earth. Not sure how the glory of the nations would be brought into the city if it were not on earth. 

[The Light]

On 5/15/2020 at 7:10 PM, Marilyn C said:

I believe if you do a time line of your thoughts you will see where you are in error.

I think that this is a very good point. I see why you would make this statement. Knowing what you know, you can't possibly see how what I am saying fits into a timeline. What you are not realizing is that the 70th week of Daniel is the time of Jacobs trouble, not the Church. The Church is gone before the 70th week begins. Additionally, you (and most everyone) is putting the wrath of God into the 70th week. The wrath of God is not the trubulation and occurs AFTER the 70th week. My timeline works perfectly because I merely put things where God says they go. Once you force an event into a place it doesn't go, that throws off everything.

You are forcing the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 to be the second coming when Jesus comes with the armies of heaven. And yet, there is not a single reference to this event in Matt. 24. What we see in Matt 24 is a gathering from heaven and earth and we know that happens at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Jesus is not returning with His armies at His coming in Matt 24. What we see is "A" rapture. The 70th week is over when that rapture occurs and THEN the wrath of God begins. At the end of wrath, Jesus will come with His armies.