“I will spit you out” ....

[Don19]

On 5/1/2020 at 8:17 PM, OneLight said:

It is having a free will to chose which path you will follow.  Jesus gave us salvation, while we have to accept His salvation.  Some accept it with open arms and continue in Him toward maturity while others freely accept His salvation and balk at the idea of having to change or give up their pet sins they enjoy.  The latter is who I would see as a lukewarm Christian, not on fire for the Lord.

I don't find this idea of free will in the Bible. Only God's will is truly free, as He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased (Psalm 115:3). I find that in Romans chapter 9 Paul says that God has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens. Nope, no free will there! Or how, so that God's purpose according to election might stand, He loved Jacob and hated Esau, the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil. No "offer" of salvation there, but an unconditional gift to whomever He chooses. Or in the 6th chapter of John, where Jesus says that all the Father has given Him will come to Him; and that He will never cast out the one who comes to Him. Or 1 Peter 2:8, contemplating those who stumble at the word, whereunto also they were appointed.

I find that "free will" is rather something God has saved His people from, even quickening them when they were dead in sins and trespasses (Eph 2:1-5). If the difference between being saved and damned is thanks to what *you* did, then you make yourself your own savior, or at least co-savior. But Jesus Christ is either your Savior 100% or not at all. All praise will forever belong to Him, not to ourselves.

[OneLight]

24 minutes ago, Don19 said:

I don't find this idea of free will in the Bible. Only God's will is truly free, as He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased (Psalm 115:3). I find that in Romans chapter 9 Paul says that God has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens. Nope, no free will there! Or how, so that God's purpose according to election might stand, He loved Jacob and hated Esau, the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil. No "offer" of salvation there, but an unconditional gift to whomever He chooses. Or in the 6th chapter of John, where Jesus says that all the Father has given Him will come to Him; and that He will never cast out the one who comes to Him. Or 1 Peter 2:8, contemplating those who stumble at the word, whereunto also they were appointed.

I find that "free will" is rather something God has saved His people from, even quickening them when they were dead in sins and trespasses (Eph 2:1-5). If the difference between being saved and damned is thanks to what *you* did, then you make yourself your own savior, or at least co-savior. But Jesus Christ is either your Savior 100% or not at all. All praise will forever belong to Him, not to ourselves.

Free will is the ability to chose for oneself, so it is all over the bible.  It does not mean our choices will make us free.  Hope this clears things up.

Edited for spelling.

Edited May 3, 2020 by OneLight

[OneLight]

8 hours ago, Behold said:

The way to understand the word "repent" with respect to the Grace of God and the CROSS..... means = to change your mind.. as THAT is the true repentance that leads to Salvation.

Think of it like this..   Let say you are a Christ rejector.   This means you do not BELIEVE.......You are in fact, an UNBELIEVER.

To REPENT OF THIS, is to TURN from this... to change your mind, and BELIEVE....and THIS becomes FAITH, and "faith is counted  AS Righteousness".

See, we are not talking about what John The Baptist was preaching to the House of Israel before Jesus died on the Cross.  Ok?   The NT Grace of God "time of the Gentiles" understanding of "repent"... is to repent of your UNBELIEF....and TURN to FAITH IN Christ..

That's true Gospel Repentance.

I already knew what repentance means, which is why I ask you the question.  When one repents, the are making a willing and meaningful decision on their part.  When Jesus tells someone to repent He is telling them to take action, to do something, to change.  Jesus is not doing it for them, though He has given them a way if they decide to accept it. 

[Don19]

7 hours ago, Behold said:

Basically everything you just wrote, attacks the Grace of God, Denies the love of God, attacks the Cross,  and falsely describes God as a vicious eternal dog with no conscience.

The very idea that God chooses to allow a human to be born,  to then  cause them to burn in the lake of fire, is a theology of Satan.

This Theology of "God CAUSES people to be born to burn for eternity" is the most Anti-God is LOVE Theology ever created by the Devil that absolutely SPITS on the CROSS.

This "predestined elect" theology literally charges God with being a Deity who chooses/causes  people to BURN IN THE LAKE OF FIRE.

This Theology says that The God who sent His Son for the WORLD..... John 3:16, didnt !!.... and He actually sent Jesus down here  only for those He chose not to BURN In the Lake of Fire.

 

 

The Scriptures say, of Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth." If you read Romans 9 carefully, the Apostle Paul addressed this "anticipated objection" you raised - that the damned are ordained to hell. Just as in Romans 6, Paul answered the "anticipated objection" to his gospel of grace by rebutting the suggestion that one may as well sin so that grace may abound, Paul in Romans 9 answered this anticipated objection in exactly the same way. And what does he say?

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Indeed, as Proverbs 16:4 states, "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

A word of caution, if I may. If God has ordained reprobation to His glory and to the good of those who love Him, who are the called according to His purpose (which I would argue is most biblical according to these and other Scriptures): then it is good. All that God does is good and just, for He is good and just, and the source of everything that is good and just. As it is written in Isaiah: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil. God is totally sovereign over all evil, but He uses it for good (see Genesis 50:20).

Unconditional election is a doctrine most God-exalting and man-humbling. It magnifies the glory of God's grace - grace meaning favor. God's favor is not something man could ever earn, but is given according to the mere counsel of His will. It also magnifies God's love, as it is not common to all men; but for its objects, it is totally effectual and never fails.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Don19

[Not me]

@Don19

Hi, if you wouldn’t mind me adding a thought..As far as whether man has free will. God says in Deuteronomy that He has called both Heaven and earth to witness against the man that says He has not given the choice to man...

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB)
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

The  choice God has given to man is to choose his nature....Which will it be, fire or water, life or death, Christ or self...

I thought this might be thought provoking for you..

Be blessed as we grow in Him..

A fellow believer, Not me 

[Blood Bought 1953]

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

Tell me then.  Did you repent from your sinful ways when you accepted salvation through Christ Jesus, or did you just thank Him for His salvation and continue on your merry sinful ways?

Yep.....this was pretty much my experience .....I don’t even remember if I thanked him or not, officially.I am pretty sure I was thankful in my heart. I never Repented from my “ sinful ways.” I did continue on my “ merry way.” If my Salvation was contingent on me “ straightening up and flying right” and giving up sin, I am still as Lost as as an Eskimo in the Middle Of Manhattan.

 Here is what I “did” do......The Holy Spirit blessed me one night by convicting me that I was a Sinner , headed for a well- deserved Hell...I , like billions Of others that were blinded by the lie of Satan , was living in The Fool’s Paradise that told me I was not perfect , but “ Good Enough” to meet God’s Approval.....After The Holy Spirit cured me of “ that” damnable lie, All that was left for me to do was to cry out for forgiveness and mercy.....I had absolutely NOTHING  to offer to God but my sins.

I must have done “ something” right. The next morning , after a night of pure anguish, I discovered what the “ peace that passeth all Understanding” was all about.....I knew that I was forgiven.....I had a total  sense of peace and love in my heart.....it was not natural.....It was from the Holy Spirit, I am sure....

As time went on , I was too ignorant of the Bible to do anything Biblical......in a nutshell, I went on my “merry way” and over time , God showed me it was not so  “ merry” after all.......He had something better in mind for me.....He introduced me to a Preacher that finally mind sense.....He said, “ You don’t have to change to attend my Church, but if you start practicing Faith, which was Acting on a Promise Of God, you had  better   Watch Out ! God just might decide to “ change you”. I concentrated on believing and acting on God’s Promises as opposed to trying to “ turn over a new leaf” and quit sinning and “ be good”. I stepped out in Faith, and for that God Put His Spirit in me and I have remained myself as He has worked in my heart , doing the changing that HE deemed important.I do what I want and God keeps changing my wants. I do the Trusting- He does the changing and He does the Saving.

Paul said that we Finish this Journey the same way that we started it—- FAITH! How is the Saved man supposed to live? “The Righteous shall LIVE by Faith” That’s all I ever do.....He does the rest...... IF we Trust Him.... I do........ God Bless...

 

[JustPassingThru]

13 hours ago, Behold said:

Can you be more "known" by God and Christ, then to be in Spiritual union with them?

Yes, ...when I say "know" I'm not talking just about my spiritual relationship with with God, ...but including a relationship in body and soul, ...He talks, guides, teaches me about what I do during the day, He gives me the plans for what I'm to build with my hands, He tells me how to do it and what tools to use, He stops me when I'm relying on my own intellect and about to make a mistake, I sense His presence as if He is looking over my shoulder, ...He guides me to the store where I find what I need without searching in other stores and not find it, He tells me what route to take through town to avoid a traffic jam, ...I could go on and on,

...He controls my emotions, ...when someone insults me, mocks me, makes fun of me, ...especially here at Worthy, ...He fills me with his Love, ...cause me to wait to reply and then gives me what I'm to say in Love, ...two weeks ago I witnessed a man beating down his woman, she was on the ground and he was hitting, beating and stomping on her, ...rage welled up inside of me, ...I immediately pulled over and took out the razor sharp knife I carry with me for my work, ...I know "where" to cut the arteries in the arm or thigh, ...but a flashing red light, ...warning, ...danger appeared in my heart, ...I immediately put the knife back in my pocket and called the Gendarme, ...and went home, ...instead of prison!

And during the day, when not working with the machines, and while I'm driving, ...my spirit is being nourished by listening to Bible Studies I have downloaded into my tablet.

I "know" my God in/with my body, soul and spirit, ...and He "knows" and is "active" in my life, ...body, soul and spirit too.

Lord bless 

[Don19]

8 hours ago, Not me said:

@Don19

Hi, if you wouldn’t mind me adding a thought..As far as whether man has free will. God says in Deuteronomy that He has called both Heaven and earth to witness against the man that says He has not given the choice to man...

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB)
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

The  choice God has given to man is to choose his nature....Which will it be, fire or water, life or death, Christ or self...

I thought this might be thought provoking for you..

Be blessed as we grow in Him..

A fellow believer, Not me 

This is the Law, though: the covenant of works, not the covenant of grace. Israel after the flesh didn't choose life, and God sent judgment upon them in 70 AD. They received all the curses of the Law, as anyone under the Law must keep the entire thing (Gal 3:10, Jas 2:10). The New Covenant is promissory, not of works; as Paul says in Galatians, if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Sinful flesh is not able to choose life - what's born of flesh is flesh, and what's born of Spirit is spirit. A corrupt tree cannot bear good fruit. It was the serpent who told Eve that ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Israel after the flesh is a demonstration of that; hence, there is now a new and better Covenant which is unconditional.

Neither is man able to choose Christ; as Jesus said, "[...] whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:33). And He said, "no man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him [...]" (John 6:44) - in Greek, the word for "draw" carries the idea of compulsion, or of dragging. He will judge the goats at the final judgment based on whatever works they did not do to one of the least of His brethren - in other words, by the law; whereas His sheep are commended for whatever little thing they did do for the brethren, even if it's something so small they don't even remember, as we see by their questions. See Matthew 25:31-46. Based on the goats' questions, it is possible they did a lot of "charity"; however, they won't be judged on what they did do but rather on what they did not do. The goats get law - they get conditionalism. The sheep get grace, and they it unconditionally, just as they were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world (Eph 1:3-6).

[Sower]

11 minutes ago, Don19 said:

And He said, "no man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him

And how does He do that?
For me, from a faithful Christian stranger, I heard the words "I must be saved, I must be born again"
This tiny nugget of truth, light, caused me to repent, change my thinking.  The WORD.
This light/truth chased out some darkness (bad/false programming in my mind) and stirred my spirit.
This new light/understanding begged for more light, from scriptures, and Christians. Understanding.
Faith comes by hearing, Hearing by the Word!
And a child was born.

[OneLight]

8 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Yep.....this was pretty much my experience .....I don’t even remember if I thanked him or not, officially.I am pretty sure I was thankful in my heart. I never Repented from my “ sinful ways.” I did continue on my “ merry way.” If my Salvation was contingent on me “ straightening up and flying right” and giving up sin, I am still as Lost as as an Eskimo in the Middle Of Manhattan.

 Here is what I “did” do......The Holy Spirit blessed me one night by convicting me that I was a Sinner , headed for a well- deserved Hell...I , like billions Of others that were blinded by the lie of Satan , was living in The Fool’s Paradise that told me I was not perfect , but “ Good Enough” to meet God’s Approval.....After The Holy Spirit cured me of “ that” damnable lie, All that was left for me to do was to cry out for forgiveness and mercy.....I had absolutely NOTHING  to offer to God but my sins.

I must have done “ something” right. The next morning , after a night of pure anguish, I discovered what the “ peace that passeth all Understanding” was all about.....I knew that I was forgiven.....I had a total  sense of peace and love in my heart.....it was not natural.....It was from the Holy Spirit, I am sure....

As time went on , I was too ignorant of the Bible to do anything Biblical......in a nutshell, I went on my “merry way” and over time , God showed me it was not so  “ merry” after all.......He had something better in mind for me.....He introduced me to a Preacher that finally mind sense.....He said, “ You don’t have to change to attend my Church, but if you start practicing Faith, which was Acting on a Promise Of God, you had  better   Watch Out ! God just might decide to “ change you”. I concentrated on believing and acting on God’s Promises as opposed to trying to “ turn over a new leaf” and quit sinning and “ be good”. I stepped out in Faith, and for that God Put His Spirit in me and I have remained myself as He has worked in my heart , doing the changing that HE deemed important.I do what I want and God keeps changing my wants. I do the Trusting- He does the changing and He does the Saving.

Paul said that we Finish this Journey the same way that we started it—- FAITH! How is the Saved man supposed to live? “The Righteous shall LIVE by Faith” That’s all I ever do.....He does the rest...... IF we Trust Him.... I do........ God Bless...

 

You say you never repented, but you go on to describe a repentant heart when you cried out for forgiveness and mercy.   Repenting does not mean going straight from black to white, there is a progress, one each of us walk through, and is continuous.

So there is no further misunderstanding, can you unpack your last couple of sentences?  Just saying FAITH is so vague you could turn an aircraft carrier around in it.  Also, please expound on how you do nothing and Jesus does it all.  Do you mean that if you lied to someone and was convicted that you would not repent by correcting the wrong and telling the truth, but instead you would just wait for Jesus to tell them the truth?  I want to make sure I understand what you mean.

I am sure you did a word search in scripture to see what was said about repentance.  How many times did Jesus tell us to repent of our sins?  How about Paul?  Repentance is part of maturing in Christ.  If you don't repent, how do you learn and grow, what fruit can an unrepentant heart provide?  Last, how can an unrepentant heart love Him who tells us to repent when the person refuses to do so?