Eternal torment or eternal death

[Ervin P]

I sometimes wonder if there is eternal torment or eternal death to come for anyone who is not saved. I hope it’s eternal death.

il post a few verses,  in favour of either:

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The above seems to be quite clear, but it’s obvious that not everything in the Bible is always literal.

Then

Revelation 21:8

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

And also:

Romans 6:7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

Anyway, I am interested in your thoughts on the question of what is for those that won’t be saved.

 Thanks 

 

 

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Ervin P said:

I sometimes wonder if there is eternal torment or eternal death to come for anyone who is not saved. I hope it’s eternal death.

il post a few verses,  in favour of either:

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The above seems to be quite clear, but it’s obvious that not everything in the Bible is always literal.

Then

Revelation 21:8

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

And also:

Romans 6:7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

Anyway, I am interested in your thoughts on the question of what is for those that won’t be saved.

 Thanks 

 

 

A parable never uses real names; therefore it is literal. Eternal torment and eternal death are synonymous [the second death]. The Bible is very clear we are triune creatures consisting of body, soul and spirit, and both humans and angels were 'created' eternal and can not [or will not] be annihilated. Even non-believers are going to be resurrected with bodies, then after the Great White Throne judgment, will be cast into the lake of Fire [a literal place]. 

The 'rich man', a gulf apart from Abraham's bosom in the comfort side of Hades where Lazarus was, opposite the torment side of Hades, evidently had a body. As he had all his emotions, felt the heat, thirsted, could see, hear and communicate and remember and had all his physical and mental senses.

There's a modern golden rule when studying the Bible, God is not the author of confusion:

(1) When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense. (2) Therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning. (3) Unless the facts of the immediate context, studies in the light of related passages and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise. (4) Based on this methodology, a principle emerges in the interpreting of Bible prophecy.

The 'second death' is complete and total separation from God for all eternity. The wages [what we have earned] of sin is death [eternal punishment]. The only attribute of God that is repeated three times for emphasis in two different places in the Bible is; Holy, Holy, Holy. Sin is eternal in the presence of an eternal and Holy God, therefore our sins must be punished eternally to pay for it [my thoughts]. UNLESS, we accept the FREE gift of forgiveness bought and paid for by the life, death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

At a persons last heartbeat, last breath, their fate is sealed forever. Presently, those that perish by not accepting Jesus as their own personal Savior, are being held at the still existing torment side of Hades [Hell, a jail if you will]. Until sentencing of their fate at the Great White Throne judgment after the millennium when eternity begins. There will be no excuses, circumstances or alibis, the books will be opened and those without Christ will be judged accordingly. A personal opinion: Just as there will be different crowns, rewards, positions and responsibilities awarded the children of Christ. I believe there will be different levels of pain, torment and suffering for the lost; based on their works, life and evil deeds. 

[Behold]

2 hours ago, Ervin P said:

I sometimes wonder if there is eternal torment or eternal death to come for anyone who is not saved. I hope it’s eternal death.

il post a few verses,  in favour of either:

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The above seems to be quite clear, but it’s obvious that not everything in the Bible is always literal.

Then

Revelation 21:8

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

And also:

Romans 6:7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

Anyway, I am interested in your thoughts on the question of what is for those that won’t be saved.

 Thanks 

 

 

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

⁸ In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus Christ:

⁹ Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

"it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God".

 

It says "punished". and this word has no resolution or idea contained within it that would even suggest that this punishment is limited, or will stop.

 

 

[Behold]

2 minutes ago, SONshine said:

  The spiritually dead, those who choose to follow Satan will be cast into the lake of fire.

= All Christ rejectors.

[Justin Adams]

3 hours ago, Ervin P said:

I sometimes wonder if there is eternal torment or eternal death to come for anyone who is not saved. I hope it’s eternal death.

This is a very good question and has many theologians arguing still. Reason it is really odd is that someplace death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed. So how can one be tormented forever?

Rev. 20:14 shows that Hell is not the same as the lake of fire. So when Hell (Hades) is finally CAST INTO the lake of fire (which symbolizes eternal destruction), this means that Hades, the common grave of mankind, is totally destroyed. It goes out of existence, being completely emptied of its dead and the bad spirits that formerly inhabited this underworld region.

So it appears that this is the end of death and sheol/hades. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Justin Adams

[Behold]

10 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

This is a very good question and has many theologians arguing still. Reason it is really odd is that someplace death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed. So how can one be tormented forever?

 

Will the Devil be ultimately destroyed, or ultimately tormented?

So, as Christ rejectors are "of your Father, the devil", they will end up with Him, encountering what He himself will endure.

[OneLight]

4 hours ago, Ervin P said:

I sometimes wonder if there is eternal torment or eternal death to come for anyone who is not saved. I hope it’s eternal death.

il post a few verses,  in favour of either:

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The above seems to be quite clear, but it’s obvious that not everything in the Bible is always literal.

Then

Revelation 21:8

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

And also:

Romans 6:7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

Anyway, I am interested in your thoughts on the question of what is for those that won’t be saved.

 Thanks

A question that has boggled the minds of believer for centuries.  Yet, scripture does not contradict scripture.  Since this is the case, and there is no verse saying that the lake of fire and brimstone is temporal, but is a place of torment for the devil and his followers to be tormented day and night for ever and ever must mean what it says.  The problem arises when believers question Gods Righteousness by comparing His Righteousness through the lens of His Mercy.  How can God torment anyone day and night for ever and ever?  How does that show a loving God??  That leads to the believer wondering if God is a Righteous Judge!  We should never compare one of Gods attributes through another of His attributes.  Each of God's attributes stand by itself, where all of His attributes combined gives us a glimpse of who God is.

So, what is death speaking about here in the context of the "second death".  Well, if life means being with God forever, enjoying all of what Gods has, then death would be the opposite.  Death would be the dead being separated from God forever.  Now, if life offers being with God for ever, enjoying all that is good in Him, then death would mean being separated from Him, robbed of all that is good in Him and living with all that is bad.

[Behold]

10 minutes ago, OneLight said:

  How can God torment anyone day and night for ever and ever? 

The reason some believers think that God is tormenting, is because they are confusing a person's decision to end up where they are tormented because they Rejected Christ, with God causing this....

God does not cause anyone to go to hell.  But rather he honors our CHOICE to end up where faith in Christ or no faith in Christ will lead... in the end.

Hell, then the lake of Fire, are eternal destinations that God created for the Devil and his Angles.   So, its natural for those who, as Christ said...>"you are of YOUR FATHER The Devil" to end up with their Father, after they die.  They will continue to exist where their Father is found, and the born again will continue to Exit where our Father is found.

 God sent Christ to us all as  the FINAL OPTION to not end up with the wrong Father after we die....S o, if some do, don't blame God, as He can't do more then ofter Christ on a Cross to keep us all away from that other ending.

Going to hell is a person's CHOICE.   God honors your Choice.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Behold

[missmuffet]

It is definately eternal torment. 

 

Revelation 14: 9-11

 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The above is true not only for those who take the MOB but also those who are not believers. 

[Butch5]

14 hours ago, Ervin P said:

I sometimes wonder if there is eternal torment or eternal death to come for anyone who is not saved. I hope it’s eternal death.

il post a few verses,  in favour of either:

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The above seems to be quite clear, but it’s obvious that not everything in the Bible is always literal.

Then

Revelation 21:8

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

And also:

Romans 6:7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

Anyway, I am interested in your thoughts on the question of what is for those that won’t be saved.

 Thanks 

 

 

Hi Evin,

To answer your question, it is death. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches that people will suffer eternal conscious torment. That idea drawn from a few passages out of context and a mistranslation of the Greek word aion. The Greek word aion is often translated as forever, but it doesn't mean forever. It's used all through the Bible of finite periods of time. Properly, it means an age, an undefined period of time. The Bible is pretty clear that when a man dies, he is dead. He will remain dead until the Resurrection at which time he will be judged and if not found in the book of life will be cast into the Lake of Fire. I'm not sure if that will be alive or dead, but he will burn up and cease to exist.