Name That King! Revealing the Beast.

[The Light]

23 hours ago, The Light said:

Clue #1

Rev 17

¹² And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

¹³ These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

¹⁴ These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

¹⁵ And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

¹⁶ And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

Clue #2

Rev 17#

¹¹ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

Clue #3

⁸ The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

Clue #4

Isaiah 14

¹⁶ They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

 

Clue #5

Rev 13

¹⁸ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

Clue #6

¹⁹ But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

 

Clue #7

Isaiah 14

²⁴ The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

²⁵ That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

 

Clue #8

Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

 

Clue #9

Rev 17

¹⁰ And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

Clue #10

Rev 13

¹² And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

So we are looking for a MAN (#4) who is an ASSYRIAN (#7), who is a KING OF BABYLON (#8), who had a DEADLY WOUND (#10), whose number is SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE AND SIX (#5), who WAS AND IS NOT and shall ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT (#3), who is CAST OUT OF THE GRAVE like an abominable branch (#6), who is ONE OF THE 7 KINGS (#9), who will be the EIGHTH KING (#2), who will be given the power and strenth of the 10 kings which hate the woman.

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, The Light said:

So we are looking for a MAN (#4) who is an ASSYRIAN (#7), who is a KING OF BABYLON (#8), who had a DEADLY WOUND (#10), whose number is SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE AND SIX (#5), who WAS AND IS NOT and shall ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT (#3), who is CAST OUT OF THE GRAVE like an abominable branch (#6), who is ONE OF THE 7 KINGS (#9), who will be the EIGHTH KING (#2), who will be given the power and strenth of the 10 kings which hate the woman.

Yes. Are you saying someone alive right now fits all this and has done all this? 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 6/18/2020 at 10:04 PM, The Light said:

The beast was and is not. That means he was alive before John wrote Revelation.

From what scripture do you draw that conclusion?  The beast was and is not and yet is, is the fullness of what the passage tells us, and using the clues from Rev 9:11, 11:7 we know that Revelation 17 is describing the same beast from Revelation 13. Therefore it is clearly referring to the wounding/healing; Rev 13:3 because 17:8 says "all the world shall marvel..."

How can we conclude that "was and is not" means the beast was alive before John wrote Revelation? 

"Five have fallen and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short time"   Rev 17:10

 5 have fallen and 1 is, so that is 6, and the other (the 7th) is not yet come... So the seventh has not yet come is what is written.

"And the beast that was and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven..."  Rev 17:11 So definitely he is not before John wrote, because John is told that the 6th beast is, but the seventh has not yet come, and the one who "was and is not" is the eighth. We can not conclude therefore that the one who "was and is not" is alive before John wrote Revelation, the opposite is what the text clearly tells us. 

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes. Are you saying someone alive right now fits all this and has done all this? 

Yes. But you will never see him. As a believer, you will not be here when he is revealed. But we can determine who he is with the clues that have been given.

2 Thes 2

³ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

⁴ Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

⁵ Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

⁶ And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

⁷ For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

⁸ And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

From what scripture do you draw that conclusion?

Rev 17

¹⁰ And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

¹¹ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

  The beast was and is not and yet is, is the fullness of what the passage tells us, and using the clues from Rev 9:11, 11:7

Rev 9

¹¹ And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev 11

⁷ And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

So it appears that you want to conclude that the angel of the bottomless pit is the same as the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit. What makes you draw that conclusion? Because they both ascend out of the bottomless pit? So, when was Apollyon, a man, and an Assyrian, and a King of Babylon?

Drawing this type of conclusion that Apollyon is the beast because both come out the the bottomless pit is like concluding that a VW is a Rolls Royce because both are cars.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

we know that Revelation 17 is describing the same beast from Revelation 13. Therefore it is clearly referring to the wounding/healing; Rev 13:3 because 17:8 says "all the world shall marvel..."

Okay

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

How can we conclude that "was and is not" means the beast was alive before John wrote Revelation? 

⁹ And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

¹⁰ And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

¹¹ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

John tells us that there are 7 kings. One thing that he tells us is that "and one is". That eliminates the 6th king from the discussion as we are looking for a beast that was and is not.  Since the 6th king "is" he cannot be the beast.

Another thing that John tells us is "and the other is not yet come". This eliminates the 7th king from being the beast that was and is not because we are looking for someone that "was". Since the 7th king is yet to come, we know he is not a king that "was". So all the stories that you hear that the seventh king is the beast, and the beast gets killed with a head wound and rises again and becomes the eighth king is a bunch of HOOEY.

From the clues that John gives we can determine that the beast from the sea comes from one of the 1st 5 kings.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

"Five have fallen and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short time"   Rev 17:10

 5 have fallen and 1 is, so that is 6, and the other (the 7th) is not yet come... So the seventh has not yet come is what is written.

"And the beast that was and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven..."  Rev 17:11 So definitely he is not before John wrote, because John is told that the 6th beast is, but the seventh has not yet come, and the one who "was and is not" is the eighth. We can not conclude therefore that the one who "was and is not" is alive before John wrote Revelation, the opposite is what the text clearly tells us. 

We can conclude that the beast that "was and is not" WAS ALIVE AND HAS DIED, before John wrote Revelation.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

2 minutes ago, The Light said:

One thing that he tells us is that "and one is". That eliminates the 6th king from the discussion as we are looking for a beast that was and is not.  Since the 6th king "is" he cannot be the beast.

Five are fallen and one is, that is the sixth king, if five are fallen...  The 6th king is not the beast, the eighth king is the one described as "was and is not and yet is"

The connections we have are the other passages of scripture; "And I saw one of his heads as if it were wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed, and all the world wondered at the beast"    13:3 which clearly connect with 17:8 "all the world shall wonder... when they behold the beast that was and is not and yet is"  

Therefore was and is not is referring to his seeming healing from death. "Was and is not and yet is", is clearly the fullness of the description.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Yes. But you will never see him. As a believer, you will not be here when he is revealed. But we can determine who he is with the clues that have been given.

2 Thes 2

³ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

⁴ Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

⁵ Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

⁶ And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

⁷ For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

⁸ And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If we will never see him it seems quite pointless for Paul and Peter and Jesus to talk about it; and even to have a whole book about it. 

What's all the warnings about? Are we thinking unbelievers will suddenly heed the scriptures and change their ways? Not be happy the opposition to sinful lifestyle is now gone and they can continue in decadence in peace? 

Maybe someone should have said, "But don't worry about it, none of you will be here anyway."

 

[WilliamL]

 On 6/16/2020 at 1:03 PM, WilliamL said:

On 6/10/2020 at 4:47 PM, The Light said:

Do you need me to prove that the beast is around when the abomination of desolation is set up?

Absolutely. That is the crux of the issue. Because the Son of Perdition is not the Beast. The former comes before the AD, the latter comes after the AD, during the wrath, which is after the Church has been removed.

On 6/16/2020 at 3:32 PM, The Light said:

What is telling you that the man of sin, the son of perdition is not the beast of the sea, the eighth king?

You keep stalling. Why? Just answer my question if you can, instead of asking me question after question and avoiding the issue.

"Prove to me that the beast is around when the abomination of desolation is set up."

 

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, Diaste said:

If we will never see him it seems quite pointless for Paul and Peter and Jesus to talk about it; and even to have a whole book about it. 

What's all the warnings about? Are we thinking unbelievers will suddenly heed the scriptures and change their ways? Not be happy the opposition to sinful lifestyle is now gone and they can continue in decadence in peace? 

Maybe someone should have said, "But don't worry about it, none of you will be here anyway."

 

Yes, all the Darby and Augustine and Calvin and Luther and myriads of other false ideas are to be ignored and we SHOULD read what God WANTS us to know about. Otherwise it is all such a dumb stalking horse!

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

If we will never see him it seems quite pointless for Paul and Peter and Jesus to talk about it; and even to have a whole book about it. 

You won't see it because you will be taken to heaven in the pretribulation rapture of the Church. The man of sin will be revealed after the rapture. However there will be plenty of people around that will see the revealing. I just don't suspect you will be one of them.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

What's all the warnings about? Are we thinking unbelievers will suddenly heed the scriptures and change their ways? Not be happy the opposition to sinful lifestyle is now gone and they can continue in decadence in peace? 

The warnings are for 12 tribes across the earth and there should be more Gentiles that are saved with the gleanings of the field.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Maybe someone should have said, "But don't worry about it, none of you will be here anyway."

 

Oh, there will be plenty of people around that are not caught up in the rapture of the Church.