The beast in the bottomless pit

[douggg]

8 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I thought it wold be beneficial for you to reconsider who is in the bottomless pit.

Revelation 20:1-3

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Satan will be (future to us) in the bottomless pit for the thousand years.

9 minutes ago, OneLight said:

It seems pretty clear that the beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8 is the very same beast, who is Satan, that comes out of the bottomless pit in Revelation 20:7-11.  Notice that the beast in Rev 17 goes into perdition and Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.  Yup, one and the same.

The beast in the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8a at the time of John, was and is not.     It is not Satan in Revelation 17:8a.    

The imagery of the 7 heads and 10 horns - is not for the end of the thousand years, as another reason not to connect Revelation 17:8 with the short release of Satan at the end of the 1000 years.

 

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

I did not say that the woman was sitting on a dragon.    I wrote that the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17:3 is Satan. 

What you say is irrelevant. The Scripture says the woman is sitting on a scarlet coloured beast. This beast is not Satan, but the beast from the sea. Rev 13:1, who ascends from the bottomless pit before the dragon is even bound and cast into it.

Rev 17:3  So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Satan is never referred to in Scripture as "the beast". Serpent, Yes. Dragon, Yes. But never "the beast". The angel says the beast (not Satan, not the dragon) carries the woman, and goes on to be more specific about where on the beast the woman sits, namely on the seven heads which are called seven mountains. These mountains represent seven kingdoms, dominant in the lives of God's People. These seven kingdoms have demonic kings over them, and from these seven kingdoms an eighth global kingdom is formed, of which the beast himself is king, thus he is the eighth king as mentioned below, Rev 17:11.

The abyss or bottomless pit does not have a geographical location, but like heaven and hell, is in a theographical location where it is inhabited by evil supernatural entities. 
Rev 9:11  And they (the locust demons) had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

Rev 17:7-15  But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. (8)  The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (9)  "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. (10)  There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. (11)  The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. (12)  "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. (13)  These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. (14)  These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful." (15)  Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

This beast upon whom the woman was sitting until she was destroyed, and who is the eighth king, engages in a supernatural war against Christ and the armies of heaven, and is then captured along with the false prophet and both are cast into the lake of fire. This is BEFORE the dragon who is Satan is bound for a thousand years and cast into the bottomless pit, so the dragon isn't even in the bottomless pit when the beast that was, and is not and is himself the eighth king ascends from the it. 

Rev 19:19-21  And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. (20)  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. (21)  And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Satan is never referred to in Scripture as "the beast". Serpent, Yes. Dragon, Yes. But never "the beast".

It says "a" beast in Revelation 17:3, not "the" beast.      A serpent is a beast.   A dragon is a beast.

And when the angel tells the mystery of the woman, and of the beast in verse 7 - it is not "the beast" truncated , but "the beast that carried her".      Even so, the understanding is still clouded in mystery because in verse 9 - "And here is the mind which hath wisdom".

Which you have missed the wisdom part.

The seven heads are seven mountains - a location.   On which the woman sits.

And the seven heads represent seven kings.    Neither the mountains, nor the kings, are seven kingdoms.

Likewise the ten horns are ten kings - not ten kingdoms.

_________________________________________________________________________________

I have heard the version you espouse, which your interpretation changes "kings" in Revelation 17:10 to "kingdoms",  maybe a million or so times.    It gets tiring.

Edited May 29, 2020 by douggg

[R. Hartono]

On 5/28/2020 at 4:54 PM, douggg said:

Satan apparently offered the serpent a deal - to rule over

 

The devil simply possess animal/snake, like the Legion that came into pigs n throw themselves to water.

And God curse the snake it had no foot anymore. Its a literal snake not the devil.

Edited June 2, 2020 by R. Hartono

[douggg]

14 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The devil simply possess animal/snake, like the Legion that came into pigs n throw themselves to water.

And God curse the snake it had no foot anymore. Its a literal snake not the devil.

That is not really a equal comparison.  God did not hold the pigs responsible for the action of the Legion.

In the garden, God held that specific beast responsible in its part in getting Adam and Eve to sin. 

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

That is not really a equal comparison.  God did not hold the pigs responsible for the action of the Legion.

In the garden, God held that specific beast responsible in its part in getting Adam and Eve to sin. 

Its not abt respinsibility but the posession of animal is possible.

[douggg]

4 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Its not abt respinsibility but the posession of animal is possible.

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

The serpent exercised it's free will to get Adam and Eve to sin.     The question has to be - what was in it for the serpent to do so ?

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

The serpent exercised it's free will to get Adam and Eve to sin.     The question has to be - what was in it for the serpent to do so ?

Usurping the dominion over the earth that was given to Adam and Eve. 

[TMarcum]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:45 AM, douggg said:

The scarlet colored beast the woman is riding in Revelation 17 is Satan.

I know what you may be thinking..... therefore Satan is the beast in the bottomless pit.

No. That's not it. Satan, himself, is not in the bottomless pit. But there is a connection between Satan and that beast.

 

I agree with you totally. Satan was not in the pit in Rev 17:8. He ascended out of the pit and went into perdition.

The beast himself could have never been in the pit for 1000 years. The beast is 7 kingdoms made up of 7 kings with kingdoms, and 10 kings without kingdoms. These kings were men. None of these kings lived over 1000 years. King Nebuchadnezzar was the 1st king of the head and he died around 500BC.

So you are correct, the beast had a connection with Satan. This is his connection:

In (Rev 12:3), we read that the dragon had 7 heads, 10 crowns and 7 crowns. This was before he was cast into the bottomless pit.

When we go to chapter 13, we see that the dragon gave the beast his power, seat, and authority (Rev 13:2). And by giving the beast his power, seat, and authority, then the 7 heads, and 10 horns were shared with the beast. So in (Rev 17:8) when the beast with 7 heads, and 10 horns was seen ascending out of the bottomless pit, it was Satan transferring his power, seat, and authority to the beast. But when he ascended out from the pit, he went into perdition.

Did you notice the chapter 12, dragon only had 7 crowns (Rev 12:3)? But when the power, seat, and authority was transfer to the beast and he went into perdition, he acquired (3) more crowns. The beast in (Rev 13:1) had 10 crowns.

One other point. The beast that was, and is not, and yet is:

* He "was" because he had power in the past before being cast into the bottomless pit.
* He "is not" because he had no power for 1000 years, being in the bottomless pit.
* Yet "is" because he is ascended out of the pit and is in perdition.

Rev 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by TMarcum

[TMarcum]

On 5/29/2020 at 12:16 AM, douggg said:

Satan will be (future to us) in the bottomless pit for the thousand years.

The beast in the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8a at the time of John, was and is not.     It is not Satan in Revelation 17:8a.    

The imagery of the 7 heads and 10 horns - is not for the end of the thousand years, as another reason not to connect Revelation 17:8 with the short release of Satan at the end of the 1000 years.

 

Douggg,

The questions that you are pondering are the same question that I pondered over 30 years ago, early in my ministry and studies. As answers began to come in, is what gradually led to my conversion from "premillenialism" to "amillenialism".

If you are not familiar with the term, then researching the term may set your mind at ease. The defination of the term means, "no millennial".

It doesn't mean we do not believe there is no millennial reign period, we simply interpret (Rev 20:1-6) differently than premils. We believe the millennial period is before the 2nd return of Christ and not afterward. Satan having already been in the bottomless pit and then ascending out as described by Rev 17:8 & Rev 11:7

However you believe is not as important as your faith in Jesus. But we have to be flexible to everybody's beliefs of the forum. No beliefs are worth arguing over.