The two promises of God that contradict each other

[steve morrow]

NEVER  CONTRADICTION  --  LACK  OF  KNOWLEDGE ???

 

ROMANS 10:2  for I bear them record that they have a zeal of  GOD  but not according to knowledge 

 

JOHN 7:38  HE  THAT  BELIEVETH  ON  ME  AS  THE  SCRIPTURE  HATH  SAID  OUT  OF  HIS  BELLY  SHALL  FLOW  RIVERS  OF  LIVING  WATER

JEREMIAH 2:13  for my people have committed two evils they have forsaken  ME --- THE  FOUNTAIN  OF  LIVING  WATERS --- and hewed them out cisterns broken cisterns that can hold no water  

ISAIAH 12:3  therefore with joy shall you draw water out of the wells of salvation 

EPHESIANS 5:25  husbands love your wives even as  CHRIST  also loved the church and gave himself for it  --5:26-- that  HE  might sanctify and  --CLEANSE  IT  WITH  THE  WASHING  OF  WATER  BY  THE  WORD-- 

 

1 JOHN 1:9 --IF-- we confess our sins  HE  is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to -- CLEANSE  US  FROM  ALL  UNRIGHTEOUSNESS--

HEBREWS 12:24  and to  JESUS  the mediator of the new covenant and to the blood of sprinkling --THAT  SPEAKETH  BETTER  THINGS--than that of able 

JOHN 6:54  whoso eateth  MY  flesh and drinketh  MY  blood hath eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day  --6:55-- for  MY  flesh is meat indeed and  MY  blood is drink indeed  --6:56-- he that eateth  MY  flesh and drinketh  MY  blood dwelleth in  ME  and I in him  --6:57-- as  --THE  LIVING  FATHER -- hath sent  ME  and I live by  --THE  FATHER-- so he that eateth  ME  even he shall live by  ME 

JEREMIAH 15:16  thy words were found and I did eat them and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart for I am called by thy name  O  LORD  GOD  of hosts

1 JOHN 1:7  but if we walk in the light as  HE  is in the light we have fellowship one with another and  the blood of  JESUS  CHRIST  HIS  SON  CLEANSETH  US  FROM  ALL  SIN

 

1 JOHN 5:8  AND  THERE  ARE  THREE  THAT  BEAR  WITNESS  IN  EARTH  --THE  SPIRIT--  AND  THE  WATER--  AND  THE  BLOOD-- AND  THESE  THREE  AGREE  IN  ONE

 

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are spirit and they are life

JOHN 5:21  for  THE  FATHER  raiseth up the dead --AND  QUICKENETH  THEM-- even so  THE  SON  QUICKENETH  whom  HE  will

PSALM 119:50  this is my comfort in my affliction for  ---THY  WORD  HATH  QUICKENED  ME---

1 JOHN 5:6  this is  HE  that came by water and blood even  JESUS  CHRIST  not by water only but by water and blood and it is  the spirit that beareth witness because --THE  SPIRIT  IS  TRUTH--

 

JAMES 1:17  every good gift and every perfect gift is from above and cometh down from  THE  FATHER  of lights with whom there is  --NO  VARIABLENESS-- neither shadow of turning

HOSEA 4:6  MY  PEOPLE  ARE  DESTROYED  FOR  LACK  OF  KNOWLEDGE  BECAUSE  THOU  HAST  REJECTED  KNOWLEDGE  I  WILL ALSO  REJECT  THEE   THAT  THOU  SHALT  BE  NO  PRIEST  TO  ME  SEEING  THOU  HAST  FORGOTTEN  THE  LAW  OF  THY  GOD  I  WILL  ALSO  FORGET  THY  CHILDREN

POVERBS 28:9  he that turneth away his ear from hearing the law --EVEN  HIS  PRAYER  SHALL  BE  AN  ABOMINATION  TO  THE  LORD--

 

2 TIMOTHY 2:7  consider what I say and  THE  LORD  give thee understanding in all things 

PROVERBS 21:16  THE  MAN  THAT  WANDERETH  OUT  OF  THE  WAY  OF  UNDERSTANDING  SHALL  REMAIN  IN  THE  CONGREGATION  OF  THE  DEAD

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  

[JustPassingThru]

4 hours ago, alaric_w said:

All tribulation christian started off as unbelievers but started to believe after witnessing the rapture.

And they will be decapitated by the AC and his forces "because" they refused the mark of the beast.

John saw them and wrote about them in Rev 9:7-17

Lord bless

[TheBlade]

Its written "and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."
 

If you look at the "mark" as some chip and people are putting these chips in there hands and what not. Then seems someone could take the mark by mistake. the word is clear on this. Those that worship the beast and takes its mark are lost forever.  The problem here is.. people keep by passing the WORSHIP part and jump right to OH NO THE MARK! A ...ALL will have to worship the beast first. If they didn't they are killed. Those that just worshiped the beast are lost forever.

But the word of God already told you who will worship the beast. See its not some chip. Hes doing lying wonders things we have never seen. And they will KNOW that they know that they know they are saying no to God and yes to the AntiChrist. Thats why they are lost. They are making a final choice. None of them were are saved. Again the word tell us this.

[Michael37]

15 hours ago, alaric_w said:

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor e principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Firstly alaric, regarding Romans 8: 38-39 these verses say nothing separates us from the LOVE of God, not as many suppose the SALVATION of God.

Secondly, sorry but your assumption of no Christians around to be tested by the enforcement of the Mark of the Beast is patently false. Some one has been teaching false doctrine for you to mistakenly think no Christians will be tested by the compulsion to receive the Matk of the Beast. The saints who are tested by the Mark of the Beast remain faithful and are are martyred.

Rev 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[alaric_w]

6 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Firstly alaric, regarding Romans 8: 38-39 these verses say nothing separates us from the LOVE of God, not as many suppose the SALVATION of God.

Secondly, sorry but your assumption of no Christians around to be tested by the enforcement of the Mark of the Beast is patently false. Some one has been teaching false doctrine for you to mistakenly think no Christians will be tested by the compulsion to receive the Matk of the Beast. The saints who are tested by the Mark of the Beast remain faithful and are are martyred.

Rev 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So you are saying God can put you into hell and still love you. In my view if someone loves me, he will want me to be in his presence and not separated. I guess your definition of love is very different from God's

Secondly, you are putting salvation as a work that must be earned by passing a test. Salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earn. You shouldn't cheapen Jesus' finished work by adding our filthy works to it.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God 

Edited June 8, 2020 by alaric_w

[Seasoned by Grace]

God never contradicts Himself - He is perfect and so is His word.

God's word is in HARMONY with itself and the Plan He created before man or this world was created.

It constantly amazes me that the created will try to rise above the creator in their arrogance to try and one up the all knowing from eternity to eternity.

My name is OLIGOS

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, alaric_w said:

So you are saying God can put you into hell and still love you. In my view if someone loves me, he will want me to be in his presence and not separated. I guess your definition of love is very different from God's

Secondly, you are putting salvation as a work that must be earned by passing a test. Salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earn. You shouldn't cheapen Jesus' finished work by adding our filthy works to it.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God 

I didn't say refusing the MOTB was the means by which the saints of that time earned their salvation. Whatever caused you to twist my statement so inaccurrately as to accuse me of such a thing, alaric?

Refusing the Mark of the Best doesn't earn Salvation for the saints, but it proves firstly that they are saints, and secondly that like all Christian martyrs, they are empowered by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they love not their lives unto death. 

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

As for God's love it extends to the whole world, John 3:16. The common misapplication of Romans 8:35 & 39 as catch-all verses for guaranteed salvation when they in fact speak to adversity being no reason to doubt God's love in Christ, is at times I suspect, a contributing cause of the confusion that produces the erroneous accusations of contradiction in Scripture such as you have made, alaric.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Rom 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

Context is always key.

"Whosoever believes in Him..."  John 3:16 Belief in a person means that you believe and trust what that persons tells you.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give unto them eternal life..." John 10:27-28  [the "them" makes clear that we need verse 27]

Therefore clearly those receiving eternal life are those that hear His voice, know Him, and follow Him. Not just passive believers; active believers.

Therefore during the time of the mark, if any are still here, they will hear the voice of their Sheppard directing them away from the deceptions.

 

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1 Thessalonians does not describe a rapture, Paul is clearly speaking of resurrections, and of literally meeting the Lord in the air.

In Revelation chapter 19 we get more information on the marriage supper of the Lamb. We get resurrected to be part of the prophesied resurrected army spoken of in Ezekiel 37:9-10 

"come from the four winds... and breath upon these slain that they may live.. and they stood upon their feet and exceedingly great army.."

Clearly Ezekiel and Revelation are describing the same events;

 

Ezekiel 37:1-14 = Resurrections "from the four winds" "an exceedingly great army"

Ezekiel 37:15-28 = Thousand year reign of the Messiah "and David my servant shall be a king over them and they all shall have one shepherd"  [Jeremiah 30:9, Isaiah 26:19-27:1-2]

Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 then describe Gog and Magog.

 

Revelation 20:4-5 = Resurrections

Revelation 20:6-7 = Thousand year reign of the Messiah

Revelation 20:7-10 = After the thousand years; Gog and Magog.  [Rev 20:9 - Ez. 38:9]

 

In modern times, most will want you to believe that Ezekiel 37:1-14 is super figurative and is not speaking about resurrections, even though it clearly says

"I will open up your graves, and bring you up out of your graves"  and   "breath upon these slain that they may live" 

It speaks of the breath of life coming from "the four winds"

If we only use scripture to interpret scripture, then it is clear that Christ was referring to Ezekiel's prophecy when He spoke of the four winds in Matthew 24:31

 

"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

 

That verse clearly connects with Ezekiel 37:9-10 and also with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

 

"The Lord Himself will descend from the sky with a shout; with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first [the four winds]

then we who are alive in remain [one end of heaven to the other] shall be caught up together with them in the clouds

to meet the Lord in the air, and thereafter we shall always be with the Lord."

 

It means exactly what it says, in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Not in the clouds to be taken up beyond the clouds,

we will be coming down with Christ, to enjoy the marriage supper of the Lamb.

The marriage of the Lamb is Psalm 58:10 and Malachi 4:3 coming to pass. 

"wheresoever the bodies are there will the birds be gathered together"  Matthew 24:28 Luke 17:37 > Revelation 19:21 

The marriage of the Lamb is described in Revelation 19, Christ will arrive with an exceeding great army behind Him;

an army that we can conclude from Isaiah 26:19-27:1-2, Jeremiah 30:9, Ezekiel 37:1-14, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:16-17, Jude 1:14-15

is an army of resurrected and glorified saints. Christ will slay the beast and false prophet with His army behind Him.

In Isaiah it was prophesied that "Israel's dead men shall arise, together with my dead body shall they arise"

And then Isaiah goes on to describe the Lord slaying two beasts on that day! Therefore Isaiah 26:19 through 27:1-2 also matches up with Revelation! 

 

Isaiah 26:19-21 = Resurrections.

Isaiah 27:1-2 = The Lord slays two beasts.

 

Revelation 19 = The Lord arrives with a great army of resurrected and glorified saints

Revelation 19:20-21 = The Lord slays two beasts.

 

Putting all the related prophecy together makes clear that Christ and Paul were expounding on prophecy already spoken, and then we get details of the same prophecy in Revelation.

 

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Eventually a great war will happen... And until the end of the war, desolations are determined. Daniel 9:26  

I believe that sometime during the start of that great war, beast #1, who is a special kind of literal king, will seem to die, and then seem to be healed from death in some marvelous way.

The majority of the world will marvel at his healing, something spectacular like 'alien' 'cyborg' 'technology'. Most will hang on his every word hoping to be able to be 'saved' from death in the manner that he seemingly was. He will open his mouth in blaspheme against God, to blaspheme Gods name, and Gods tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. Revelation 13:6.

In other words, he will lie about what is above the sky...

Beast #1 will then usher in beast #2; one claiming to be Jesus.

 

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"Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day (the day Paul spoke of in 1 Thess 4:16-17, the day of Christ; 2 Thess 2:2) shall not come unless there be a falling away first,

and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition: who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped,

so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God" 2 Thessalonians 2:2-12

[steve morrow]

IS  IT  NOT  A  SHAME  THAT  SCHOLARSHIP  HAS  CONTINUALLY  MINIMIZED  AND  DISTORTED  GRACE   ( ETC )  FROM  THAT  WHICH  IS  FROM  THE  DISCIPLESHIP  OF  JESUS  CHRIST

 

JOHN 1:17  for the law was given by moses but grace and truth came by   JESUS  CHRIST 

PROVERBS 12:17  he that speaketh truth showeth forth righteousness  --- but a false witness deceit ---

PSALM 33:4  for the word of  THE  LORD  IS  RIGHT  and all  HIS  WORKS  are  done in truth 

JOHN 8:31  then said  JESUS  to those jews which believed on  HIM  --IF  YOU  CONTINUE  IN  MY  WORD-- then are you  MY  disciples

ROMANS 1:18  for the wrath of  GOD  is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness 

 

JOHN 14:12  VERILY  VERILY  I  SAY  UNTO  YOU  HE  THAT  BELIEVETH  ON  --ME--  THE  WORKS  THAT  I  DO  HE  SHALL  DO  ALSO  -- AND  GREATER  WORKS  THAN  THESE  SHALL  HE  DO  BECAUSE  I  GO  UNTO  MY  FATHER

EPHESIANS 2:10  FOR  WE  ARE  HIS  WORKMANSHIP  CREATED  IN  CHRIST  JESUS  --UNTO  GOOD  WORKS--  WHICH  GOD  HATH  BEFORE  ORDAINED  THAT  WE  SHOULD  WALK  IN  THEM 

 

IS  IT  NOT  TRUE  THAT  A  MASTERBUILDER  AND  A  BUILDER  HAVE  WORK  TO  DO

 

1 CORINTHIANS 3:10  according to the grace of  GOD  which is given unto me as a wise masterbuilder I have laid the foundation and another buildeth thereon but let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon 

PROVERBS 24:3  through wisdom is an house builded and by understanding it is established 

ACTS 20:32  and now brethren I commend you to  GOD  and to the word of  HIS  grace which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all them that are sanctified 

JOHN 17:17  sanctify them through thy truth thy word is truth 

2 CORINTHIANS 12:9  and  HE  said unto me ---MY  GRACE  IS  SUFFICIENT  FOR  THEE--- for  MY  strength is made perfect in weakness most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities that the power of  CHRIST  may rest upon me 

 

ECCLESIASTES 8:4  where the word of a king is there is power and who may say unto him what doest thou 

1 CORINTHIANS 1:24  but unto them which are called both jews and greeks  --CHRIST  THE  POWER  OF  GOD  AND  THE  WISDOM  OF  GOD--

PSALM 127:1  except  THE  LORD  build the house they labor in vain that build it except  THE  LORD  keep the city the watchman waketh but in vain

 

TITUS 2:11  for the grace --- OF  GOD --- that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men  --2:12-- TEACHING  US --  that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly -- righteously -- and godly -- in this present world 

1 TIMOTHY 6:3  if any man teach otherwise and --CONSENT  NOT  TO  WHOLESOME  WORDS-- even the words of our  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  and to the doctrine which is according to  GODLINESS 

--6:4-- HE  IS  PROUD  KNOWING  NOTHING --- doting about questions and strifes of words whereof cometh envy--strife--railings--evil surmisings --6:5-- perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds --AND  DESTITUTE  OF  THE  TRUTH-- supposing that gain is godliness from such withdraw thyself 

2 PETER 1:3  according as  HIS  DIVINE  POWER  hath given unto us --all things-- that pertain unto life --AND  GODLINESS-- THROUGH  THE  KNOWLEDGE  OF  HIM -- that hath called us to glory and virtue 

--6:6-- BUT  GODLINESS  WITH  CONTENTMENT  IS  GREAT  GAIN

 

2 CORINTHIANS 13:8  FOR  WE  CAN  DO  NOTHING  AGAINST  THE  TRUTH  BUT  FOR  THE  TRUTH 

PSALM 78:32  FOR  ALL  THIS  THEY  SINNED  STILL  AND  BELIEVED  NOT  FOR  HIS  WONDROUS  WORKS

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

 

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

This is an excellent topic on the trinity.

Many years ago as I studied the word, it became apparent that God operated through 3 distinct personalities, much like a leader of the home does as husband, father , and provider as the 3 main functions.

In scripture, God is called the "Godhead" which is another name for the Trinity.

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God is the first part of the trinity and when you look at all of creation, God is called the big planner, or the administrator ( Or oikonomia  - Greek for designer or dispenser or "Ruler of the house" ) and of that plan, Ephesians 1:1-17,  where all God created  that includes the creation of man and how to communicate with man and dispense Himself into all of mankind called a dispensing, or dispensation, or dispensationalism, bringing to man the knowledge of Himself, and where God somehow and by some means places Himself into all who would have Him when they are called by God to Himself to believe in His son Jesus Christ.

Secondly, as part of the trinity, God choose Jesus Christ as the means of dispensing Himself and all we are meant to have through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Also, Jesus is called our "Mediator" in !st Timothy2:5, "For there isone God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

Jesus mediated for us, much as a defense attorney mediates on the behalf of His client, telling the judege, "My client is innocent of all charges against Him

Thirdly, the Holy Spirit, was sent into the world to "Convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgement, John 16:7-11.

In John 14:16 Jesus said He would send the Spirit to us to be our helper, Comforter and Guide, and give us a counselor to be with us forever. 

Ist Cointhians 12 describes the Spiritual Gifts given to us by the Holy Spirit.

And in Galatians 5:22, it describes the Spirits function as a "Fruit Producer in the lives of a believer.

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There is so much more, but all this gives you a place to begin your studies and at the same time shows you the roles of each of person of the the Trinity.

I pray to Jesus Christ for He is my mediator between God and I, but I also talk to and pray to the Holy Spirit as He is my helper in so many ways, and leads me and guides me into all truth, comforts me, and counsels me and convict me of my sins.

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Knowing the role of each of the Trinity is such a comfort with no confusion who to go to in my prayers.

It's like working for a company where the manager is your boss, but there is also a production manager above him and the owner above him, and you know the role of each and who to go to for concerns or needs at the proper level.

No confusion because it's in the company handbook, and we have a handbook called the bible that explains all that IF we read it!!!

My name is OLIGOS