How old you might think the Earth is?

[Daniel Marsh]

older than me, younger than God. 

[Retrobyter]

On 6/15/2020 at 9:36 AM, luigi said:

Peace and good day Retrobyter,

If the Lord created all in six 24 hour periods and then rested on the seventh day from all His work; then how is it that it is the Lord by Himself who currently is stretching the heavens in Isaiah 44:24? Is our current expanding universe not the Lord stretching and creating the heavens?

Shalom, luigi.

Be sure you know what you are talking about: First, the Hebrew word for "heavens" in Isaiah 44:24 is shaamayim. And, this shaamayim was MADE (formed from existing material) on Day 2 of Creation:

Genesis 1:6-8 (KJV)

6 And God said,

"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament "Heaven." And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Here's the Hebrew transliterated:

Breeshiyt 1:6-8 (Hebrew Torah of the Tanakh)

6 Vayyo'mer Elohiym,

"Yhiy raqiya` btowkh hammaayim viyhiy maVdiyl beeyn mayim laamaayim."

7 Vaya`as Elohiym et haaraaqiya` vayyaVdeel beeyn hammayim asher mittachat laaraaqiya` uwveeyn hammayim  asher mee`al laaraaqiya` vayhiy keen. 8 Vayyiqraa' Elohiym laaraaqiya` "Shaamayim." Vayhiy `ereV vayhiy boqer yowm sheeniy.

6 Vayyo'mer = 6 And-said
Elohiym, = God,
"Yhiy = "Let-there-be
raqiya` = an-expanse
btowkh = in-the-middle
hammaayim = of-the-waters
viyhiy = and-let-it
maVdiyl = divide/separate
beeyn = between
mayim = waters
laamaayim." = to-waters."
7 Vaya`as = 7 And-made
Elohiym = God
et = (next word is the direct object)
haaraaqiya`= the expanse
vayyaVdeel = and-He-divided
beeyn = between
hammayim = the-waters
asher = that-were
mittachat = under
laaraaqiya` = to-the-expanse
uwveeyn = and-between
hammayim  = the-waters
asher = that-were
mee`al = above
laaraaqiya` = to-the-expanse
vayhiy = and-it-was
keen. = so/yes.
8 Vayyiqraa' = 8 And-gave-a-name
Elohiym = God
laaraaqiya` = to-the-expanse
"Shaamayim." = "Skies." (a dual word)
Vayhiy = And-there-was
`ereV = evening
vayhiy = and-there-was
boqer = morning
yowm = a-day
sheeniy. = second.

These are the same "skies" in which birds (fowl created on day 5) are said to be flying:

Genesis 1:20-23 (KJV)

20 And God said,

"Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying,

"Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

The Hebrew of God's words in verse 20 is...

"Yishrtsuw hammayim sherets nefesh chayyah v`owf y`owfeef `al haa'aarets `al pneey rqiya` haashaamayim."

"Yishrtsuw = "Let-abound
hammayim = the-waters
sherets = an-abundance
nefesh = of-air-breathers
chayyah = living
v`owf = and-birds
y`owfeef = flying
`al = above/against
haa'aarets = the-earth/land
`al = above/against
pneey = [the]-face
rqiya` = of-[the]-expanse
haashaamayim." = of-the-skies."

Just a bit of background information: God created the environments for the created things on Days 1, 2, and 3. Then He formed the created things to inhabit those environments of Days 4, 5, and 6, respectively. That's what is going on in the narrative.

The Genesis account NEVER said that God created the "sun" and "moon." The Hebrew words for "sun" and "moon" are "shemesh" and "yaareeach," respectively. One will not find these words in Genesis 1 or 2. Instead, we see that God created "two great lights," "shneey haam'orot haagdoliym." The word "lights," "haam'orot," uses the "ha-" prefix (the definite article) and the "m-" prefix (the preposition "from") added to the feminine plural form of "'or" or "'owr." Literally, the word means "the (from-light)s."

From this information, He then said that there would be a "greater light," "hamma'owr haggaadowl," and a "lesser light," "hamma'owr haqqaaTon."

But on Day 1, God had created "the light," "haa'owr," which He divided from "the darkness," "hachoshekh." It was FROM this light that God created the "greater light" and the "lesser light," and these "two great lights" God placed in the "skies," "shaamayim."

Then, almost as an afterthought, the words "v'et hakowkhaaViym," which translates to "and-(next word is a direct object) the-round-objects," meaning "and the-stars," are added to the sentence. However, notice that this word could refer to ANY heavenly body - star, planet, asteroid, even the objects we call the "sun" and the "moon," which are also "round objects!"

Here's the simple conclusion: God didn't place the sun, moon, and stars in "haashaamayim." He placed the LIGHTS in "the skies!" In our modern, scientific terms, we would say that God placed the PHOTONS in "the skies!" Oh, and then He made the round objects also.

Okay, NOW we can go to Isaiah 44:24:

Isaiah 44:12-28 (KJV)

12 "The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint. 

13 "The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house. 14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it. 15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. 16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, 'Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire': 17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, 'Deliver me; for thou art my god!'"

18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. 19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say,

"I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination (an idol)? shall I fall down to the stock of a TREE?!"

20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say,

"Is there not a LIE in my right hand?"

21 "Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22 "I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee."

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,

"I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 
25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 
26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers;
that saith to Jerusalem, 'Thou shalt be inhabited'; and to the cities of Judah, 'Ye shall be built,' and I will raise up the decayed places thereof: 
27 That saith to the deep, 'Be dry,' and 'I will dry up thy rivers':
28 That saith of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, "Thou shalt be built"; and to the temple, "Thy foundation shall be laid."'"

The point being made in verse 24 is that God is creating all things BY HIMSELF. No one else was around to help! I.e., there's no other person that should be called "god!" The verbs in this verse are in the Qal form and are participles, acting as adjectives of the noun in the masculine gender, and singular number. It's easier to see it as adjectival nouns describing YHWH: "Thus says YHWH, your Redeemer and your Former while you were still in the womb, 'I am YHWH, the Maker of all things, the sole Stretcher of the skies, the Spreader of the earth who was by Himself, ... (etc.)'." It's not about Him STILL "stretching" and "spreading"; it's about Him having done it ALONE and HE is STILL that One! 

Quote

If the Lord is the Potter and man is the clay that the Potter forms as He wishes (Isaiah 64:8); is not the Lord then in the process of creating man?

Frankly, no. The forming of haa'Aadaam was unique in that God took the dust of the ground and SHAPED ("`Asah") the Man. Then He PUFFED into His nostrils the puff of living things and the Man became a living air-breather. Genesis 1:26 and 27 specifically use the word "bara'" for "to create" the Man, since there had never been his like before!

In Isaiah 64:8, another word is used: "uwma`aseh," translated as "work" in the KJV. The word literally means "and-FROM-that-shaped," since it includes the prepositional  prefix "ma-" meaning "from."

Quote

When in Zephaniah 3:17 the Lord says He will rest in His people, could this possibly be the seventh day rest, that the Lord declared from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10), as is also seen in Hebrews 4:3-4?

Zephaniah 3:17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

No, again. You really need to check the Hebrew BEFORE you try to fit these verses together!

Zephaniah 3:17 (KJV)

17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

Here's the Hebrew transliterated:

Tsfanyaah 3:17 (JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh)

17 YHWH Elohayikh bqirbeekh gibbowr yowshiya` yaasiys `aalayikh bsimchaah, yachariysh b'ahaVaatow, yaagiyl `aalayikh brinnaah.

17 YHWH = 17 YHWH/the LORD
Elohayikh = your-God
bqirbeekh = in-your-midst
gibbowr = the-Strong-One
yowshiya` = will-save
yaasiys = He-will-rejoice
`aalayikh = over-you
bsimchaah, = in-happiness,
yachariysh = He-will-silence/quiet-[you]
b'ahaVaatow, = in-His-love,
yaagiyl = He-will-rejoice
`aalayikh = over-you
brinnaah. = in-singing.

He's not doing the "resting"; He's "quieting" their hearts in His love!

Quote

Isaiah 44:24  Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 64:8  But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

It's interesting that you would bring up Hebrews 4:3 because He is saying here that the "works," including the "Creative accomplishments," were "FINISHED (have been finished) from the foundation of the world!"

Look, I can appreciate your attempt to open the Scriptures to a day-age interpretation of Creation, but it really doesn't work. The Hebrew text is against it, and I believe that the God of all, YHWH, has foreseen your attempts and He has planned for them.

[luigi]

19 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

He's not doing the "resting"; He's "quieting" their hearts in His love!

It's interesting that you would bring up Hebrews 4:3 because He is saying here that the "works," including the "Creative accomplishments," were "FINISHED (have been finished) from the foundation of the world!"

Look, I can appreciate your attempt to open the Scriptures to a day-age interpretation of Creation, but it really doesn't work. The Hebrew text is against it, and I believe that the God of all, YHWH, has foreseen your attempts and He has planned for them.

To rest has more than one meaning. It can mean to repose, as us humans require. I'm of the opinion, however, the Lord's resting after six days does not indicate Him requiring some sort of necessary repose. His resting is therefore in my opinion, Him ceasing to further create along the lines of creation indicated. When the Lord will then rest in His beloved, He will do so without the need to further mold the clay.

Yes, I did bring up Hebrews 4 which states the Lords works had been accomplished from the foundation of the world. The word foundation has several meanings, which in this case means the point of departure, its starting point. So how can all the works that occur over the course of six days, have all been accomplished from the earth's starting point, on day one? Hebrews 4 also tells us that there are those who would enter that rest on the seventh day.

Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

I also believe as you do that the Lord has foreseen my attempts at explaining His Word, as He has seen everything that would occur. Can you then explain what it is the Lord declares of the end from the beginning, if not the creation, which according to His Word throughout the Bible is still taking place? And since we do agree that the Lord can see the future, and my attempts at explaining His Word, could the Lord then not have elaborated a little more clearly, so as not to misinterpret so many of His scriptures that indicate He is still the process of creating the heavens, and man?

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Edited June 19, 2020 by luigi

[Daniel Marsh]

On 6/18/2020 at 10:36 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, luigi.

Be sure you know what you are talking about: First, the Hebrew word for "heavens" in Isaiah 44:24 is shaamayim. And, this shaamayim was MADE (formed from existing material) on Day 2 of Creation:

Genesis 1:6-8 (KJV)

6 And God said,

"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament "Heaven." And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Here's the Hebrew transliterated:

Breeshiyt 1:6-8 (Hebrew Torah of the Tanakh)

6 Vayyo'mer Elohiym,

"Yhiy raqiya` btowkh hammaayim viyhiy maVdiyl beeyn mayim laamaayim."

7 Vaya`as Elohiym et haaraaqiya` vayyaVdeel beeyn hammayim asher mittachat laaraaqiya` uwveeyn hammayim  asher mee`al laaraaqiya` vayhiy keen. 8 Vayyiqraa' Elohiym laaraaqiya` "Shaamayim." Vayhiy `ereV vayhiy boqer yowm sheeniy.

6 Vayyo'mer = 6 And-said
Elohiym, = God,
"Yhiy = "Let-there-be
raqiya` = an-expanse
btowkh = in-the-middle
hammaayim = of-the-waters
viyhiy = and-let-it
maVdiyl = divide/separate
beeyn = between
mayim = waters
laamaayim." = to-waters."
7 Vaya`as = 7 And-made
Elohiym = God
et = (next word is the direct object)
haaraaqiya`= the expanse
vayyaVdeel = and-He-divided
beeyn = between
hammayim = the-waters
asher = that-were
mittachat = under
laaraaqiya` = to-the-expanse
uwveeyn = and-between
hammayim  = the-waters
asher = that-were
mee`al = above
laaraaqiya` = to-the-expanse
vayhiy = and-it-was
keen. = so/yes.
8 Vayyiqraa' = 8 And-gave-a-name
Elohiym = God
laaraaqiya` = to-the-expanse
"Shaamayim." = "Skies." (a dual word)
Vayhiy = And-there-was
`ereV = evening
vayhiy = and-there-was
boqer = morning
yowm = a-day
sheeniy. = second.

These are the same "skies" in which birds (fowl created on day 5) are said to be flying:

Genesis 1:20-23 (KJV)

20 And God said,

"Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying,

"Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

The Hebrew of God's words in verse 20 is...

"Yishrtsuw hammayim sherets nefesh chayyah v`owf y`owfeef `al haa'aarets `al pneey rqiya` haashaamayim."

"Yishrtsuw = "Let-abound
hammayim = the-waters
sherets = an-abundance
nefesh = of-air-breathers
chayyah = living
v`owf = and-birds
y`owfeef = flying
`al = above/against
haa'aarets = the-earth/land
`al = above/against
pneey = [the]-face
rqiya` = of-[the]-expanse
haashaamayim." = of-the-skies."

Just a bit of background information: God created the environments for the created things on Days 1, 2, and 3. Then He formed the created things to inhabit those environments of Days 4, 5, and 6, respectively. That's what is going on in the narrative.

The Genesis account NEVER said that God created the "sun" and "moon." The Hebrew words for "sun" and "moon" are "shemesh" and "yaareeach," respectively. One will not find these words in Genesis 1 or 2. Instead, we see that God created "two great lights," "shneey haam'orot haagdoliym." The word "lights," "haam'orot," uses the "ha-" prefix (the definite article) and the "m-" prefix (the preposition "from") added to the feminine plural form of "'or" or "'owr." Literally, the word means "the (from-light)s."

From this information, He then said that there would be a "greater light," "hamma'owr haggaadowl," and a "lesser light," "hamma'owr haqqaaTon."

But on Day 1, God had created "the light," "haa'owr," which He divided from "the darkness," "hachoshekh." It was FROM this light that God created the "greater light" and the "lesser light," and these "two great lights" God placed in the "skies," "shaamayim."

Then, almost as an afterthought, the words "v'et hakowkhaaViym," which translates to "and-(next word is a direct object) the-round-objects," meaning "and the-stars," are added to the sentence. However, notice that this word could refer to ANY heavenly body - star, planet, asteroid, even the objects we call the "sun" and the "moon," which are also "round objects!"

Here's the simple conclusion: God didn't place the sun, moon, and stars in "haashaamayim." He placed the LIGHTS in "the skies!" In our modern, scientific terms, we would say that God placed the PHOTONS in "the skies!" Oh, and then He made the round objects also.

Okay, NOW we can go to Isaiah 44:24:

Isaiah 44:12-28 (KJV)

12 "The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint. 

13 "The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house. 14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it. 15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. 16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, 'Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire': 17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, 'Deliver me; for thou art my god!'"

18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. 19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say,

"I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination (an idol)? shall I fall down to the stock of a TREE?!"

20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say,

"Is there not a LIE in my right hand?"

21 "Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22 "I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee."

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,

"I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 
25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 
26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers;
that saith to Jerusalem, 'Thou shalt be inhabited'; and to the cities of Judah, 'Ye shall be built,' and I will raise up the decayed places thereof: 
27 That saith to the deep, 'Be dry,' and 'I will dry up thy rivers':
28 That saith of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, "Thou shalt be built"; and to the temple, "Thy foundation shall be laid."'"

The point being made in verse 24 is that God is creating all things BY HIMSELF. No one else was around to help! I.e., there's no other person that should be called "god!" The verbs in this verse are in the Qal form and are participles, acting as adjectives of the noun in the masculine gender, and singular number. It's easier to see it as adjectival nouns describing YHWH: "Thus says YHWH, your Redeemer and your Former while you were still in the womb, 'I am YHWH, the Maker of all things, the sole Stretcher of the skies, the Spreader of the earth who was by Himself, ... (etc.)'." It's not about Him STILL "stretching" and "spreading"; it's about Him having done it ALONE and HE is STILL that One! 

Frankly, no. The forming of haa'Aadaam was unique in that God took the dust of the ground and SHAPED ("`Asah") the Man. Then He PUFFED into His nostrils the puff of living things and the Man became a living air-breather. Genesis 1:26 and 27 specifically use the word "bara'" for "to create" the Man, since there had never been his like before!

In Isaiah 64:8, another word is used: "uwma`aseh," translated as "work" in the KJV. The word literally means "and-FROM-that-shaped," since it includes the prepositional  prefix "ma-" meaning "from."

No, again. You really need to check the Hebrew BEFORE you try to fit these verses together!

Zephaniah 3:17 (KJV)

17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

Here's the Hebrew transliterated:

Tsfanyaah 3:17 (JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh)

17 YHWH Elohayikh bqirbeekh gibbowr yowshiya` yaasiys `aalayikh bsimchaah, yachariysh b'ahaVaatow, yaagiyl `aalayikh brinnaah.

17 YHWH = 17 YHWH/the LORD
Elohayikh = your-God
bqirbeekh = in-your-midst
gibbowr = the-Strong-One
yowshiya` = will-save
yaasiys = He-will-rejoice
`aalayikh = over-you
bsimchaah, = in-happiness,
yachariysh = He-will-silence/quiet-[you]
b'ahaVaatow, = in-His-love,
yaagiyl = He-will-rejoice
`aalayikh = over-you
brinnaah. = in-singing.

He's not doing the "resting"; He's "quieting" their hearts in His love!

It's interesting that you would bring up Hebrews 4:3 because He is saying here that the "works," including the "Creative accomplishments," were "FINISHED (have been finished) from the foundation of the world!"

Look, I can appreciate your attempt to open the Scriptures to a day-age interpretation of Creation, but it really doesn't work. The Hebrew text is against it, and I believe that the God of all, YHWH, has foreseen your attempts and He has planned for them.

The Hebrew in Genesis related to completed creation simply has the meaning that God stopped for now.   It is not Final.

Psalm 139:13  
You formed the way I think and feel. You put me together in my mother’s womb.

Psalm 33:15He created every person’s mind, and he knows what each one is doing.

Did your mind exist on day 8?

Isaiah 4:5Then the Lord will create a cloud of smoke in the day and a bright flame of fire at night over every building and over every meeting of the people on the mountain of Zion. And there will be a covering over everyone for protection.

Did God create Jesus' Body?

Isaiah 43:1[ God Is Always With His People ] Jacob, the Lord created you. Israel, he made you, and now he says, “Don’t be afraid. I saved you. I named you. You are mine.

Isaiah 44:2I am the Lord, and I made you. I am the one who created you. I have helped you since you were in your mother’s womb. Jacob, my servant, don’t be afraid. Jeshurun, I chose you.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=ERV&quicksearch=create&startnumber=26

 

 

[Retrobyter]

On 6/23/2020 at 10:49 AM, Daniel Marsh said:

The Hebrew in Genesis related to completed creation simply has the meaning that God stopped for now.   It is not Final.

Psalm 139:13  
You formed the way I think and feel. You put me together in my mother’s womb.

Psalm 33:15He created every person’s mind, and he knows what each one is doing.

Did your mind exist on day 8?

Isaiah 4:5Then the Lord will create a cloud of smoke in the day and a bright flame of fire at night over every building and over every meeting of the people on the mountain of Zion. And there will be a covering over everyone for protection.

Did God create Jesus' Body?

Isaiah 43:1[ God Is Always With His People ] Jacob, the Lord created you. Israel, he made you, and now he says, “Don’t be afraid. I saved you. I named you. You are mine.

Isaiah 44:2I am the Lord, and I made you. I am the one who created you. I have helped you since you were in your mother’s womb. Jacob, my servant, don’t be afraid. Jeshurun, I chose you.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=ERV&quicksearch=create&startnumber=26

 

 

Shalom, Daniel Marsh.

Sorry, but some things created from NOTHING ARE INDEED "FINAL!" In all the verses you've quoted above, only 2 (Isaiah 4:5 and 43:1) actually use the word "bara' " meaning "to create (from nothing)." Therefore, I question your version! NONE of the other verses quoted actually use this Hebrew word!

The word "create" should not be used as flippantly as it is in normal conversation today!

[Salvation67]

IMO, I really dont think its billions of years old, Im looking at this from a biblical standpoint by the way. I think the "billions" theory is used to give credibility to the "evolution theories" which any true believer knows is false. I think its only about 10 to 11 thousand, give or take. 

[Salvation67]

On 6/9/2020 at 2:41 PM, BeauJangles said:

Yes, so I understand. The mighty stegosaurus went for a swim one day and fell off the edge...

AAAAAAHHHHHH!!      SPLAT!............ New question, what did it "splat" against in space ?

[Justin Adams]

If you look at the precession/recession rate of the moon, we are maybe only looking at thousands of years, not millions.

But the astro-clerics do not agree, so I will leave it to the reader to research.

[Salvation67]

1 minute ago, ChickenCoop said:

After falling off the edge of flat Earth it landed on the next flat planet down. 

Oooooh, Ok  Kind of like that Qbert video game

[teddyv]

36 minutes ago, Salvation67 said:

IMO, I really dont think its billions of years old, Im looking at this from a biblical standpoint by the way. I think the "billions" theory is used to give credibility to the "evolution theories" which any true believer knows is false. I think its only about 10 to 11 thousand, give or take. 

Maybe not billions, but it was estimated to be at least millions of years old prior to evolutionary theory becoming the leading theory on diversity of life.

I always love the little comments that 'true believers' will believe a certain non-salvific piece of dogma.