Will Christians who don't fully obey the bible go to heaven?

[David1701]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

How can you, who knows nothing about me, say I made this up from start to finish?  It was through my personal experience I spoke, but it is also through His words that it comes to pass.

Romans 1:18-21

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

I don't need to know anything about you, to know that what you posted previously is unscriptural.  We are to interpret our experience in the light of Scripture, not vice versa.

The verses you have just quoted say NOTHING about all people having faith that there is a God.  We know that God exists, from the evidence of creation, but knowledge is not faith.  Not only that, but you claimed that this fictional "belief" is enough to start people searching for God; whereas, we know that huge numbers of people do exactly the opposite - they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Why you quoted John 3:16,17, I have no idea, since these verses have no bearing on the topic of our discussion.

[OneLight]

4 minutes ago, David1701 said:

I don't need to know anything about you, to know that what you posted previously is unscriptural.  We are to interpret our experience in the light of Scripture, not vice versa.

The verses you have just quoted say NOTHING about all people having faith that there is a God.  We know that God exists, from the evidence of creation, but knowledge is not faith.  Not only that, but you claimed that this fictional "belief" is enough to start people searching for God; whereas, we know that huge numbers of people do exactly the opposite - they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Why you quoted John 3:16,17, I have no idea, since these verses have no bearing on the topic of our discussion.

You say this even after I posted scripture that proved God does make himself known to everyone through His creation and what may be know of God is manifested in them?

You should read it again, but this time, take the blinders off.

Romans 1:18-21

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

If you, as a child, did not have enough faith that God is real, I feel sorry for you.  He made Himself known to me at a very early age.  I did rebel as I grew older, but I always know He was there.  Sorry you can't even see how John 3:16-17 fits into the conversation.

[Sower]

10 minutes ago, David1701 said:

I, I, I...

No, no, no

Nice one, David.

I heard             the word               =   God     Yes
I listened     to the word               =   God     Yes
I believed    in the word                =   God    Yes
I repented (changed my thinking)=  God    Yes
I was saved.                                   =   God    Yes

salvation is of God                        =              Yes

David said; "You make it sound as if your repentance is your own work: it isn't.
To me David, it is like God gave the correct answers to the test. (I) chose His answer.
I wasn't forced, like some sects believe.
 
"Choose this day whom you will serve".......
And (I) chose, David.   God provided all (I) needed to choose. (Free, remember)

[JTC]

When we start discussing believers who don't obey the Bible or maybe the issue is 1 believer is not obeying to the extent that another believer is, maybe the question is not whether or not they are both going to be in heaven but rather what their rewards and punishments will be. For example, I've noticed more and more believers now have the opinion we will be given jobs in heaven. The old idea was that saved souls will float on clouds endlessly singing "praise the Lord". I'm sure some will be given that task but since God is always busy creating He may need some of us to deal with His new creations. Some of those jobs are probably better than others. Those of us who obeyed the Bible will probably get the better jobs.

[Sower]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

When we start discussing believers who don't obey the Bible or maybe the issue is 1 believer is not obeying to the extent that another believer is, maybe the question is not whether or not they are both going to be in heaven but rather what their rewards and punishments will be. For example, I've noticed more and more believers now have the opinion we will be given jobs in heaven. The old idea was that saved souls will float on clouds endlessly singing "praise the Lord". I'm sure some will be given that task but since God is always busy creating He may need some of us to deal with His new creations. Some of those jobs are probably better than others. Those of us who obeyed the Bible will probably get the better jobs.

There are scriptures that refer to what you are saying, JTC.
I do not recall all verses about heaven, but what I remember,
I believe it's gonna be good, real good, like.....heaven.
I wonder perhaps if I'll still be a carpenter. Would like to be on Joseph's crew.
Bet there's no unions or OSHA. They're probably at the other place, down below...........

[David1701]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

You say this even after I posted scripture that proved God does make himself known to everyone through His creation and what may be know of God is manifested in them?

You should read it again, but this time, take the blinders off.

Romans 1:18-21

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

If you, as a child, did not have enough faith that God is real, I feel sorry for you.  He made Himself known to me at a very early age.  I did rebel as I grew older, but I always know He was there.  Sorry you can't even see how John 3:16-17 fits into the conversation.

Proving that God makes himself known to everyone, is NOT what you first claimed.  It is what I stated.  What you stated was that everyone has BELIEF (faith) in the existence of God, which is untrue and which the verses you quoted do not state.  Knowing that there must be a God, from the evidence of creation, is not the same thing as having faith in God's existence.  Do you honestly not understand the difference?

As a child (about 4 and half years old), when my baby sister died and my mother asked me to pray with her (we were unsure if she were dead or not and the ambulance was on its way), I was not sure whether or not God existed, although I prayed anyway.  This is no reason to feel sorry for me, because God saved me when I was 21 and, ever since, I have been His child.

I'm sorry that you have provided nothing to show how John 3:16, 17 fits into your claims.

Edited June 22, 2020 by David1701

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

Nice one, David.

I heard             the word               =   God     Yes
I listened     to the word               =   God     Yes
I believed    in the word                =   God    Yes
I repented (changed my thinking)=  God    Yes
I was saved.                                   =   God    Yes

salvation is of God                        =              Yes

David said; "You make it sound as if your repentance is your own work: it isn't.
To me David, it is like God gave the correct answers to the test. (I) chose His answer.
I wasn't forced, like some sects believe.
 
"Choose this day whom you will serve".......
And (I) chose, David.   God provided all (I) needed to choose. (Free, remember)

1) Your little table makes no sense

2) "I chose His answer.", would still make it depend upon your choice, after all that God could do.

3) "Choose you this day whom you will serve..." is about choosing between two sets of idols and is nothing to do with the gospel (read the context, in Joshua).

[OneLight]

Below is a copy of my posts.  You have been on the attack for a few days now.  What seems to be the issue?  You can see by my posts that what I claim is not made up, nor can it not be supported by scripture.  Just what do you think Paul meant when he spoke Romans 1:18-21?  Read it carefully.  Consider what it is like when God plants the reality of Himself in someone if it does not take faith to believe what you have been shown is true or not.  Maybe you are thinking I meant saving faith?  I never said that.  Read my words carefully.

12 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Proving that God makes himself known to everyone, is NOT what you first claimed.  It is what I stated.  What you stated was that everyone has BELIEF (faith) in the existence of God, which is untrue and which the verses you quoted do not state.  Knowing that there must be a God, from the evidence of creation, is not the same thing as having faith in God's existence.  Do you honestly not understand the difference?

As a child (about 4 and half years old), when my baby sister died and my mother asked me to pray with her (we were unsure if she were dead or not and the ambulance was on its way), I was not sure whether or not God existed, although I prayed anyway.  This is no reason to feel sorry for me, because God saved me when I was 21 and, ever since, I have been His child.

I'm sorry that you have provided nothing to show how John 3:16, 17 fits into your claims.

If God has made Himself known to all, and He sent His Son to die for the whole world, how is it you cannot see the connection?

 

Below are my posts so you don't have to go searching for them.

On 6/21/2020 at 8:14 AM, OneLight said:

May I suggest that we all do the same check: 2 Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified."

Only those who place their faith in Jesus are saved.  I guess the question is, how much faith in Jesus do you have?

 

On 6/21/2020 at 2:52 PM, OneLight said:

Since Jesus brought me back from the dead, I have full faith in Him.  If you look at Ephesians close enough you will see that we are saved by grace, through faith.  Without faith for grace to work through, can one be saved?

 

20 hours ago, OneLight said:

I believe God created each person with enough belief that there is a God to entice them to seek Him, enough to start the search to answer the little nagging interest we have as kids.  The more we learn about God, the more our faith grows.  When we finally come to the point of salvation, His grace works through the faith He gave us to build upon to create the relationship He desires to have with us.  There is no horse and cart in this, just God and His creation.

 

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

How can you, who knows nothing about me, say I made this up from start to finish?  It was through my personal experience I spoke, but it is also through His words that it comes to pass.

Romans 1:18-21

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

 

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

You say this even after I posted scripture that proved God does make himself known to everyone through His creation and what may be know of God is manifested in them?

You should read it again, but this time, take the blinders off.

Romans 1:18-21

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

If you, as a child, did not have enough faith that God is real, I feel sorry for you.  He made Himself known to me at a very early age.  I did rebel as I grew older, but I always know He was there.  Sorry you can't even see how John 3:16-17 fits into the conversation.

 

 

[LonerAndy]

On 6/21/2020 at 2:10 AM, Ineedhugs said:

You know the bible says to repent of your sins, to be blameless before the lord, to be perfect as God is perfect, to be holy as God is holy etc

I see the vast majority of Christians don't fully obey the commands in the bible. For example in Ephesians Paul says that there shouldn't be any unwholesome talk or course joking among Christians because we are Gods holy people. Nor should there be any impurity, sexual immorality or greed. I was hanging out with about 10 young adults from church the other day and man, was it course joking galore. They also take Gods name in vain which is one of the 10 commandments. You know saying omg instead of oh my gosh. 

I have known Christians that swear to. Will these Christians go to heaven? They are not repenting of all their sins. I follow the bible 100% as is intended but i'm concerned about the majority of Christians that don't cos these are direct commands and to disobey is sin. I think that the problem is not enough bible reading and their opinion is corrupted by the worlds standards and Gods standard, the bible, is a weak voice in their head cos they neglect bible reading. 

Are they in danger of hell? What you think?

So there are two different views on this, and both have merit.

1.   First view is that, all of us need to realize not everyone is at the same point, on their path in life.

Meaning, where you are on the path, may not be where that other person is on the path.   This might be hard to grasp, but I find an illustration from Mark Gungor might be helpful.

So Mark Gungor is a preacher, and years ago he had a former prostitute come into church, and was at the service.  Well one of the ladies in the service scolded this former prostitute for having her sweater puppies hanging out.  By hanging out, I just mean she was dressed in a somewhat revealing outfit, not that she was naked or wearing something see-through for show-and-tell.   The former prostitute was left crying in the hall.

The following Sunday Gungor got up and reprimanded the entire church.  You don't know where people are in their Christian walk when you show up at Church.  You don't know where that lady in front of you is, in her walk with the Lord.   That former prostitute, her whole life, that's how women dress up.   That is what she has always known as how you dress up as a woman.

So you need to be very careful about how you approach people, because you don't know.  Perhaps that person who is cursing and swearing, maybe they just became a Christian, and they have no idea they shouldn't talk like that.  Perhaps that is how they were raised their whole lives, and don't know any better.

Therefore, when you are in those situations you should carefully consider, whether are not they are just on a different part of the path than you are.  Maybe they still don't know how a Christian should really act.

2.  The second view, is simply that you need to be careful when you say "that Christian".  Because not all are Christian.

Jesus himself said Why do you call to me 'Lord Lord', and do not do the things that I say?  Luke 6:46.

Matthew 7:22 says:

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'  Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So to be more blunt, yes every Christian is going to Heaven.  All of them are.  Every single Christian, is destined for Heaven.

While that's true, not everyone you think is a Christian, is a Christian.  Many people are going to meet their maker, only to find out "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers".

Hope that helps.

[OneLight]

49 minutes ago, LonerAndy said:

So there are two different views on this, and both have merit.

1.   First view is that, all of us need to realize not everyone is at the same point, on their path in life.

Meaning, where you are on the path, may not be where that other person is on the path.   This might be hard to grasp, but I find an illustration from Mark Gungor might be helpful.

So Mark Gungor is a preacher, and years ago he had a former prostitute come into church, and was at the service.  Well one of the ladies in the service scolded this former prostitute for having her sweater puppies hanging out.  By hanging out, I just mean she was dressed in a somewhat revealing outfit, not that she was naked or wearing something see-through for show-and-tell.   The former prostitute was left crying in the hall.

The following Sunday Gungor got up and reprimanded the entire church.  You don't know where people are in their Christian walk when you show up at Church.  You don't know where that lady in front of you is, in her walk with the Lord.   That former prostitute, her whole life, that's how women dress up.   That is what she has always known as how you dress up as a woman.

So you need to be very careful about how you approach people, because you don't know.  Perhaps that person who is cursing and swearing, maybe they just became a Christian, and they have no idea they shouldn't talk like that.  Perhaps that is how they were raised their whole lives, and don't know any better.

Therefore, when you are in those situations you should carefully consider, whether are not they are just on a different part of the path than you are.  Maybe they still don't know how a Christian should really act.

2.  The second view, is simply that you need to be careful when you say "that Christian".  Because not all are Christian.

Jesus himself said Why do you call to me 'Lord Lord', and do not do the things that I say?  Luke 6:46.

Matthew 7:22 says:

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'  Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So to be more blunt, yes every Christian is going to Heaven.  All of them are.  Every single Christian, is destined for Heaven.

While that's true, not everyone you think is a Christian, is a Christian.  Many people are going to meet their maker, only to find out "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers".

Hope that helps.

Two great examples, but why can't they both be active at the same time?  I heavily lean toward number 1, but have also seen the second choice at work.  Usually, those of the second category strongly claim to be a long time Christian, where those of the first category admit they are new believers.