Are the U.S. and Trump the Ones Restraining?

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

This may be totally out of context with the conversation as this is all I have read IF SO, PLEASE just act like I never was here. 

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 

I like the conversations and challenges lead to learning. Iron sharpens iron.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

So like Ezekiel 9?

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Christ had to return to heaven to open up the book written within and on the back so that we could be sealed, right?

Not sure what you're saying. At this point I don't see the parallel between being sealed on the forehead and breaking wax seals on a scroll. 

Why would a sealed scroll have anything to do with us being sealed?

 

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Here is why I am questioning what you wrote.  A seal is broken so that we can get more information. But it is only information that is received at that point. (why I believe the seals are opened in order of importance of WHAT DO we really need to be aware of coming down the pipe, so to speak.  And so the seals have to all be opened before any thing can commence.  Or I am lost and need to be found?  Or am I on my way home but taken a wrong turn?    

I have heard similar things. So are you referring to seals on a book or scroll in general or is this specific to the 7 seals of Revelation?

If this is about the 7 seals what is written should fix the order and effects for us.

Each time a seal is opened something happens, especially the first four. 

"So I looked and saw a white horse, and its rider held a bow. And he was given a crown, and he rode out to overcome and conquer."

This 'riding out' is waiting for any other seal. The 1st seal is opened and off goes the horse and rider.

"Then another horse went forth."

This is the second seal. Upon the opening of the seal this horse and rider 'goes forth'. 

These two seem like a pretty obvious cause and effect; a seal is opened and something happens, one for one. Correlation does equal causation here and it sure looks immediate to me.

Are the seals opened in order of 'importance'? What do you mean? Import to whom and what? I do not understand.

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, SONshine said:

Yes, we need to understand the seals in order to understand all the events that will transpire in this generation of the fig tree (we must also understand the parable of the fig tree itself).  We need to know about the 4 hidden dynasties, along with everything else contained within the seven seals.  .... and if we understand the seals, then we will have eyes to see and ears to hear and we won’t be deceived. 

 

Could you please elaborate on the parable and the dynasties?

[Marathoner]

The United States isn't mentioned in scripture and neither is the former president. 

[other one]

2 hours ago, Marathoner said:

The United States isn't mentioned in scripture and neither is the former president. 

something to ponder      https://www.endtime.com/united-states-discovered-in-the-bible/

[Guest kingdombrat]

3 minutes ago, other one said:

something to ponder      https://www.endtime.com/united-states-discovered-in-the-bible/

Good read and it makes sense.  Proves post tribulation 100%

[Marathoner]

40 minutes ago, SONshine said:

So are you saying that the people in the US aren’t mentioned in scripture? 

Read what I wrote. A simple statement which is easily understood. 

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I like the conversations and challenges lead to learning. Iron sharpens iron.

So like Ezekiel 9?

Not sure what you're saying. At this point I don't see the parallel between being sealed on the forehead and breaking wax seals on a scroll. 

Why would a sealed scroll have anything to do with us being sealed?

 

I have heard similar things. So are you referring to seals on a book or scroll in general or is this specific to the 7 seals of Revelation?

If this is about the 7 seals what is written should fix the order and effects for us.

Each time a seal is opened something happens, especially the first four. 

"So I looked and saw a white horse, and its rider held a bow. And he was given a crown, and he rode out to overcome and conquer."

This 'riding out' is waiting for any other seal. The 1st seal is opened and off goes the horse and rider.

"Then another horse went forth."

This is the second seal. Upon the opening of the seal this horse and rider 'goes forth'. 

These two seem like a pretty obvious cause and effect; a seal is opened and something happens, one for one. Correlation does equal causation here and it sure looks immediate to me.

Are the seals opened in order of 'importance'? What do you mean? Import to whom and what? I do not understand.

Here is my understanding, and yes, would love to have correction or insight, as always.  

Rev 1,2,3 addressing and grading the churches and informing what is coming before the Christs return.  

The information that the churches are to know is written in a book, which is sealed.  Before the 4 winds are released, trumps to start taking place ALL the servants have to be sealed with that information. 
 

Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

As the seals are opened he looks at things that are going to be taking place,  no time is attached as to when but the knowledge of all of them must be known before the 1st trump.

So not NECESSARILY taking place as that seal is opened,  and not necessarily in the order opened and not necessarily starting after the seal is opened as it is the KNOWNING and the who knowing. 

So the question becomes has all that knowledge been sealed already in those who require it.  Let's just say for instance as of today, that last person has been sealed.  
It would stand to reason that the 1/2 hour has begun taking place,  the trumps are being handed out.

 
Then four winds can be released,  the trumps start to blow
 
 
The ORDER of events, when the trumps sound (trumpets signal action such as wake up, charge, retreat, go to bed and best of all "HERE I COME") 
 don't show the rider on the white horse until the 6th Trump has sounded. 

That is ONE of the 2 most important bits of information given.  IMHO. 
It is also the FIRST warning given to us by Jesus -  Do not be deceived by any man. 

Also notice that it says one of the seals,  it doesn't say "the 1st" like the trumps and bowls  numbered.   
 

Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
THIS has not happened.

Revelation 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
This has been happening for a long time
 

Revelation 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
This also has been taking place for a long time

Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
This has been going on for a long long time

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
This has been going on for a long time

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
 

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
This has been happening and is happening

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
This is has not happened 

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

There are only 2 things that are future, but the knowledge can be had now.  
 

So there are 5 things that have been taking place through out, and 2 that haven't taken place.  So the ORDER of them doesn't seem to be as written.  


OK, before I change even one more thing or I drive myself insane, I will stop here and await as maybe take an aspirin.  Its funny how I think, I know what I know, until I try to put it in writing.  

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Here is my understanding, and yes, would love to have correction or insight, as always.  

Rev 1,2,3 addressing and grading the churches and informing what is coming before the Christs return. 

The information that the churches are to know is written in a book, which is sealed.  Before the 4 winds are released, trumps to start taking place ALL the servants have to be sealed with that information.

So we have been informed in Rev 1-3 but the information is in a sealed book? 

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

As the seals are opened he looks at things that are going to be taking place,  no time is attached as to when but the knowledge of all of them must be known before the 1st trump.

True there is no time stamp other than succession. Below you put a time stamp on them.

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

So not NECESSARILY taking place as that seal is opened,  and not necessarily in the order opened and not necessarily starting after the seal is opened as it is the KNOWNING and the who knowing. 

Well since what is written follows a pattern of cause and effect then yes, a seal is opened and it's effects seen. Any and all information about the contents of the book for each seal is written in black and white. We all know. We all know now. 

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

So the question becomes has all that knowledge been sealed already in those who require it.  Let's just say for instance as of today, that last person has been sealed.  
It would stand to reason that the 1/2 hour has begun taking place,  the trumps are being handed out.

So why does it look like you are conflating the sealed scroll with the seal of God? Where is the scriptural link? Do you have direct evidence? Any indirect evidence? I'm all for what you say but I don't see any justification through scripture to conflate the two.

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 
Then four winds can be released,  the trumps start to blow
 
 
The ORDER of events, when the trumps sound (trumpets signal action such as wake up, charge, retreat, go to bed and best of all "HERE I COME") 
 don't show the rider on the white horse until the 6th Trump has sounded. 

Again, as has been shown before in many of my posts wrath begins at the 6th seal and the 7th trump. The 7th trump being the last trump from 1 Cor 15. There are people who try to refute the connection between the 6th seal and the 7th trump but so far all the rebuttals have failed. 

That the Trumps are introduced in the narrative after the 'silence in heaven for 1/2 hour' is not proof the trumps only must follow the seals and can in no way sound before. There is no cause and effect here. Joel adequately points this out when he relates the grass is all gone at the same time the A of D has occurred, before the day of the Lord.

The sixth trump releases four angels. I see no parallel between the 6th trump and the 1st seal.

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

That is ONE of the 2 most important bits of information given.  IMHO. 
It is also the FIRST warning given to us by Jesus -  Do not be deceived by any man. 

Also notice that it says one of the seals,  it doesn't say "the 1st" like the trumps and bowls  numbered.   

That's only true for the first seal, the rest are numbered in order and opened in order. That makes the 1st one opened the 1st seal.

Then I watched as the Lamb opened one of the seven seals,

3And when the Lamb opened the second seal,

5And when the Lamb opened the third seal,

7And when the Lamb opened the fourth seal,

9And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal,

12And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal,

When the Lamb opened the seventh seal,

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
THIS has not happened.

Revelation 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
This has been happening for a long time
 

Revelation 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
This also has been taking place for a long time

Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
This has been going on for a long long time

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
This has been going on for a long time

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
 

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
This has been happening and is happening

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
This is has not happened 

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

There are only 2 things that are future, but the knowledge can be had now.  
 

So there are 5 things that have been taking place through out, and 2 that haven't taken place.  So the ORDER of them doesn't seem to be as written.  

 

Yes, many have said this same thing. I agree that death and famine and martyrs and all that are happening and have happened, and since the fall of man in the Garden!

I'm older so I have seen the evidence of faulty reasoning in this sort of thing. An earthquake happens and it's the end of the world. A tidal wave hits the Indian Ocean and it's the end of the world. A tidal wave hits Japan and destroys a reactor and it's the end of the world. 

They tested the A bomb and thought the atmosphere would ignite and end all life.

Islam and the Mongols nearly subjugated the entire world in their respective times, not the end. Nebuchadnezzar demanded the worship of all on the pain of death, not the end.

No doubt for the people in these calamities it looked like the end of the world. It was not.

Why would Jesus cite 'You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.' and 'There will be great earthquakes, famines, and pestilences in various places, along with fearful sights and great signs from heaven.' if all that had been happening, knowing that all of it would continue for the next 2000 years, as the proof we were near the end and they were signs of the end? 

For 5000 years this is the condition of the earth and He cites this as the beginning of the answer to, "“Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”"

We would never be able to differentiate from normal conditions the approach of the end if He meant the condition of the earth as it had been since the Fall. 

It's something different. Maybe it's escalation, scope, severity, all three, even something different than that, but it's not the way of the current and ongoing conditions. 

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

So why does it look like you are conflating the sealed scroll with the seal of God? Where is the scriptural link? Do you have direct evidence? Any indirect evidence? I'm all for what you say but I don't see any justification through scripture to conflate the two.

I don't know.  How would God seal us other than by the knowledge of the "do not be deceived" and understand these things and ?  Isn't that what the sealed book contained?  Things that are going on that are NOT OF GOD that we as His children need to be aware of and look out for and adjust accordingly?  Maybe it is so obvious to us now, but wasn't so much before the seals were released.  IDK.   I feel like I am missing some key bit that everyone else has and takes for granted everyone knows,  but I don't.

 

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Again, as has been shown before in many of my posts wrath begins at the 6th seal and the 7th trump. The 7th trump being the last trump from 1 Cor 15. There are people who try to refute the connection between the 6th seal and the 7th trump but so far all the rebuttals have failed. 

If you are saying the 7th trump brings about the end of the 6th seal I 100% agree.  

The last trump is the 7th seal, 7th trump, 7th vial.  

Revelation 8:1 And when He had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.


I think this is how we get the number of the beast.   

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Revelation 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


Euphrates,  the line in the sand so to speak between Truth and confusion/babel/Babylon.  

Do you think this is happened in the garden of Eden?  
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

[DeighAnn]

18 minutes ago, SONshine said:

@Diaste

Are you wondering if the Scroll, the 7 Seals and the Seal of God are all connected?  It seems, if I understood what you wrote above correctly, that you think they are not connected.  Maybe I misunderstood you. Anyhow, they’re absolutely connected.

I do.  Could you expand on this?  My brain has completely misplaced  it and a refresher is more than in order.  As I believe God works in every thing, I may have needed more than I had.  Either way, it would be nice to see 

Edited January 25, 2021 by DeighAnn
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