divorce and remarriage cancer worse than corona

[Fidei Defensor]

2 minutes ago, vic66 said:

making vowls / covenants is recognized especially when it concerns the things of God

What do you think Jesus who is God Incarnate meant by “make no vow,”? 

[vic66]

26 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

What do you think Jesus who is God Incarnate meant by “make no vow,”? 

Generally, true Christians do not have to make sworn oaths. This is because they obey Jesus, who said: “Just let your word Yes mean Yes.” He meant that a person should keep his word. Jesus prefaced that command by saying: “Do not swear at all.” He said this in condemnation of the casual habit that many people have in their daily conversation of repeatedly swearing to this or to that, without ever intending to do what they say. By going “in excess” of a simple Yes or No to state their intentions, such people may reveal that they are really untrustworthy and thus under the influence of “the wicked one.”—Read Matthew 5:33-37.

Do Jesus’ words mean that all making of oaths is bad? How could that be? Jehovah God and his righteous servant Abraham made sworn oaths on important occasions. Also, God’s Law required the taking of a sworn oath to settle certain disputes. (Ex. 22:10, 11; Num. 5:21, 22) Thus, it may be necessary for a Christian to swear to tell the truth when testifying in a court of law

[vic66]

47 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

What do you think Jesus who is God Incarnate meant by “make no vow,”? 

What did Jesus mean? “Do not swear at all.”

Some of Jesus’ sayings can be taken out of context and made to sound like something else. Sometimes sections of the Bible are used to justify or to condemn certain activities – sometimes the Bible is misunderstood. Sometimes people give up trying to understand what the Bible says, but I want to encourage you to stick with it, to use it, to grapple with it, and to seek to know it – not just to know what it says, but to know what it means and what it tells us about God, and about the human condition.

When Jesus said, “Do not swear at all” it was in a particular context, it was during his teaching known as the Sermon on the Mount, and it was during a section of teaching where Jesus is seeking to correct misunderstanding, not create more misunderstanding!

A former archbishop of Canterbury arrived in New York. A journalist asked him, “Will you be visiting any of our nightclubs whilst you are here?” The archbishop mischievously replied, “Are there any night clubs here?” Next day a newspaper headline read: “Archbishop’s first question on arriving in New York: ‘Are there any night clubs here?’” How easy it is to misquote or misunderstand without a context!

Jesus said, “Do not swear at all”. It has nothing to do with profanity; but because Jesus is talking about the use of oaths this has been used by some Christians to forbid making an oath in a court of law, or when producing an affidavit; and whilst I understand that interpretation I disagree with it; because Jesus was focusing upon integrity. ‘Integrity’ was his focus when he said “do not swear” and so it should be our focus too, because whilst it may be obvious, when seeking to interpret the Bible we should look at what has just been said and what’s about to be said. The context!

The Old Testament permitted oaths to be taken, even oaths in God’s name. The best example might be Deuteronomy 10: 20 – “Fear the Lord your God and serve him. Hold fast to Him and take your oaths in His name.” And it’s there in the New Testament too, so this talk is fast becoming as much about how we use and interpret the Bible as it is about this specific statement of Jesus. St Paul often swears by God’s name in the New Testament, calling God as his witness. For example Romans 1:9, “God whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son is my witness how constantly I remember you.” 2 Corinthians 1:23, “I call God as my witness.”

What may come as a surprise is that God swears! The writer to the Hebrews tells us that “when God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no-one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself …he confirmed it with an oath” (Heb 6: 13-17).

A more detailed study of the Old Testament shows that God’s people were not to swear falsely. Put more positively they were to fulfil their vows and their oaths.

The problem was that by the time of Jesus an entire legalistic system had been developed to describe when an oath was binding and when it was not. It went something like this: If you swear by Jerusalem you are not bound by your vow. You can break it; but take care, because if you swear toward Jerusalem you are bound by it. You cannot ever break it. It’s like when I was at school if we promised to do something and said ‘cross my heart and hope to die’ then it was unbreakable, but if we made a promise with our fingers crossed then the promise meant nothing.

So I am sorry – or perhaps I’m not sorry – I know I said I would come round to trim your hedge, but I said it with my right hand in the air and my left trouser leg rolled up so I don’t have to keep my word.

So Jesus said “do not swear” because he wanted to bring to an end a system that had effectively provided rules as to when it was OK to lie. Swearing evasively had become a justification for lying, and so Jesus was calling ordinary people back to the intention and the spirit of the law – to be people of truth; people of integrity: Don’t swear by this, that or the other. Don’t swear to make your word seem more truthful, and don’t swear in order to try to wriggle out of it later.

Jesus added, “Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’, ‘No’. Mean what you say and say what you mean. It’s not a reason to refuse to swear on the Bible in court because it is simply about being truthful.

[Fidei Defensor]

6 hours ago, vic66 said:

What did Jesus mean? “Do not swear at all.”

Some of Jesus’ sayings can be taken out of context and made to sound like something else. Sometimes sections of the Bible are used to justify or to condemn certain activities – sometimes the Bible is misunderstood. Sometimes people give up trying to understand what the Bible says, but I want to encourage you to stick with it, to use it, to grapple with it, and to seek to know it – not just to know what it says, but to know what it means and what it tells us about God, and about the human condition.

When Jesus said, “Do not swear at all” it was in a particular context, it was during his teaching known as the Sermon on the Mount, and it was during a section of teaching where Jesus is seeking to correct misunderstanding, not create more misunderstanding!

A former archbishop of Canterbury arrived in New York. A journalist asked him, “Will you be visiting any of our nightclubs whilst you are here?” The archbishop mischievously replied, “Are there any night clubs here?” Next day a newspaper headline read: “Archbishop’s first question on arriving in New York: ‘Are there any night clubs here?’” How easy it is to misquote or misunderstand without a context!

Jesus said, “Do not swear at all”. It has nothing to do with profanity; but because Jesus is talking about the use of oaths this has been used by some Christians to forbid making an oath in a court of law, or when producing an affidavit; and whilst I understand that interpretation I disagree with it; because Jesus was focusing upon integrity. ‘Integrity’ was his focus when he said “do not swear” and so it should be our focus too, because whilst it may be obvious, when seeking to interpret the Bible we should look at what has just been said and what’s about to be said. The context!

The Old Testament permitted oaths to be taken, even oaths in God’s name. The best example might be Deuteronomy 10: 20 – “Fear the Lord your God and serve him. Hold fast to Him and take your oaths in His name.” And it’s there in the New Testament too, so this talk is fast becoming as much about how we use and interpret the Bible as it is about this specific statement of Jesus. St Paul often swears by God’s name in the New Testament, calling God as his witness. For example Romans 1:9, “God whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son is my witness how constantly I remember you.” 2 Corinthians 1:23, “I call God as my witness.”

What may come as a surprise is that God swears! The writer to the Hebrews tells us that “when God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no-one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself …he confirmed it with an oath” (Heb 6: 13-17).

A more detailed study of the Old Testament shows that God’s people were not to swear falsely. Put more positively they were to fulfil their vows and their oaths.

The problem was that by the time of Jesus an entire legalistic system had been developed to describe when an oath was binding and when it was not. It went something like this: If you swear by Jerusalem you are not bound by your vow. You can break it; but take care, because if you swear toward Jerusalem you are bound by it. You cannot ever break it. It’s like when I was at school if we promised to do something and said ‘cross my heart and hope to die’ then it was unbreakable, but if we made a promise with our fingers crossed then the promise meant nothing.

So I am sorry – or perhaps I’m not sorry – I know I said I would come round to trim your hedge, but I said it with my right hand in the air and my left trouser leg rolled up so I don’t have to keep my word.

So Jesus said “do not swear” because he wanted to bring to an end a system that had effectively provided rules as to when it was OK to lie. Swearing evasively had become a justification for lying, and so Jesus was calling ordinary people back to the intention and the spirit of the law – to be people of truth; people of integrity: Don’t swear by this, that or the other. Don’t swear to make your word seem more truthful, and don’t swear in order to try to wriggle out of it later.

Jesus added, “Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’, ‘No’. Mean what you say and say what you mean. It’s not a reason to refuse to swear on the Bible in court because it is simply about being truthful.

Ah but Jesus says anything beyond your “yes” or “no” is of Satan, “All you need to say is simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.“ (Matthew 5:37). 

Another thing abouf vows is they are made because people don’t keep their word. To ensure they do a vow or oath is added, the very existence of oaths is because man does not simply keep to his yes or no. 

But then again covenants and commitments do require promises, when we are Baptized we do  make public confession of our covenant with God The Trinity. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[missmuffet]

If two born again Christians marry and give their marriage to God 100% there would be fewer divorces. Also If a couple would take  their time to get to know each other very well that would also cut down the divorce rate. 

[Fidei Defensor]

Another option is admitting, and this is hard, that not everyone is meant for marriage:

”The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.  For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (Matthew 19:10-12). 

[vic66]

25 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Another option is admitting, and this is hard, that not everyone is meant for marriage:

”The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.  For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (Matthew 19:10-12). 

There is some truth in This, but many of as learn the hard way.

[Gideon]

This is just an observation. According to stats I have heard, the divorce rate among Christians is about exactly the same as those in the world. 

Should this not set a red flag off in our hearts? Has not the love of  God been shed abroad in our hearts? And yet, we cannot make our marriages work, just as those in the world cannot? 

We are told that to whom much is given, much is required. We are to walk to a higher standard, are we not?  

It is one thing to point out what we should be doing, when we are not. But if that is the extent of it, and we do not  ask ourselves the obvious question begging to be asked, we deceive ourselves. 

What is that question? 

Why is this happening? What are we lacking that makes us live like those in the world? 

It is a question that demands an answer. We can be made to feel guilty about the truth about where we find ourselves. We can vow to try to do better. We can even choose to stick it out with a wife or husband we no longer may be in love with. This may indeed be making a fair show in the flesh.... outer appearances.... but this does not  get to the root of the problem. 

And the next question that needs to be asked is:

How? How can we be changed to love as He desires us to love? 

There is an answer. There is a way to be restored to a condition of "without spot or wrinkle", but it first requires we acknowledge that we need to be.

blessings, 

Gideon

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Gideon

[BeauJangles]

On 7/4/2020 at 12:22 PM, vic66 said:

1. Is a Christian ever justified in seeking divorce? 2. Once divorced, may a Christian re-marry?

Yep. 

Matthew 19:3-9 KJV ³The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? ⁴And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, ⁵And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? ⁶Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. ⁷They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? ⁸He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. ⁹And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

And there's your answer for that. 

On 7/4/2020 at 12:22 PM, vic66 said:

Position 1
If one of the partners in the marriage bond is guilty of adultery then on the authority of Matthew 5:31,32 and Matthew 19:1-9, the innocent party has Scriptural grounds for divorce and subsequent remarriage. However, if the guilty party repents and seeks forgiveness, then forgiveness should be extended, and every endeavor should be made to re-build the marriage relationship.

That would be the optimal, but seldom is the case. Not in the majority of today's society. 

There you are for clarity. 

On 7/4/2020 at 12:22 PM, vic66 said:

Position 2
If one of the partners in the marriage bond is repeatedly guilty of adultery, and seems to be unrepentant and not willing to change, then forgiveness should be granted but reconciliation is not expected.  The innocent party, in this instance, has Scriptural grounds for divorce and remarriage on the authority of Matthew 5:31,32 and Matthew 19:1-9.
We at High Calling Ministries NZ hold to the following position:

Yes, that's one thing you have correct. As for the standpoint of your ministry, if that's where you're getting that "oneness" doctrinal error you adhere to, then I'm not interested. Thank you. 

On 7/4/2020 at 12:22 PM, vic66 said:

Position 3
If one or both of the partners in the marriage bond are guilty of adultery, this does not give the innocent or guilty parties Scriptural grounds for divorce.  Marriage is to be regarded as a binding life-long covenant, which can only be terminated by the death of one of the partners.
Contrary to popular opinion, none of the following are Biblical grounds for divorce:
             *  Adultery                                       * Homosexuality
             *  Fornication                                   *  Abuse
             *  Unfaithfulness                              *  Alcoholism
             *  Desertion                                      *  Prostitution
             *  Cruelty                                          *  Insanity
             *  Sodomy                                         Etc………….

These weren't mentioned for various reasons. A few of them weren't even known in the time of King James, just as a reminder. You should know that, I'm pretty sure. That's why they couldn't be in the Bible. The basis of the topic was adultery. Nothing further was mentioned because all the items of the list you have here were not asked of the Lord Jesus. 

So, there's for your clarification on that. 

On 7/4/2020 at 12:22 PM, vic66 said:

Death (not divorce) was the penalty for adultery in Old Testament times.

Mosaic Law does not apply nor do these penalties. Are you sure you're not a Jehovah's Witness? 

Just curious. 

You're just "oneness"?

Just curious.

Are you also a United Pentecostal Oneness? 

Just curious. 

By the way, vic66. What about that other issue and agenda you had on that thread you bailed on about bishops, pastors, elders, and deacons, not being able to remarry if their wife passed away, as you say the Apostle Paul taught? Only one wife in their entire lifetime. Remember that one? 

Just curious. 

I'm kinda curious aren't I? 

Well, you must admit, you were pretty dodgy one that weren't you? 

Just curious. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by BeauJangles

[vic66]

20 hours ago, Gideon said:

This is just an observation. According to stats I have heard, the divorce rate among Christians is about exactly the same as those in the world. 

Should this not set a red flag off in our hearts? Has not the love of  God been shed abroad in our hearts? And yet, we cannot make our marriages work, just as those in the world cannot? 

We are told that to whom much is given, much is required. We are to walk to a higher standard, are we not?  

It is one thing to point out what we should be doing, when we are not. But if that is the extent of it, and we do not  ask ourselves the obvious question begging to be asked, we deceive ourselves. 

What is that question? 

Why is this happening? What are we lacking that makes us live like those in the world? 

It is a question that demands an answer. We can be made to feel guilty about the truth about where we find ourselves. We can vow to try to do better. We can even choose to stick it out with a wife or husband we no longer may be in love with. This may indeed be making a fair show in the flesh.... outer appearances.... but this does not  get to the root of the problem. 

And the next question that needs to be asked is:

How? How can we be changed to love as He desires us to love? 

There is an answer. There is a way to be restored to a condition of "without spot or wrinkle", but it first requires we acknowledge that we need to be.

blessings, 

Gideon

 

come into my heart lord Jesus, come in today come in to stay come into my heart lord Jesus

forgiveness, love, This is a hard one because it is love like christ, longsuffering, patience, spirit filled, prayer, love for God no matter the cost another hard one in marriage. 

much counsel, and correct biblical teaching ,

maybe we should be looking at things that potential Christian married couples should know and understand before they give the consent to marry?. marriage is for life so don't rush or say yes to quickly count the cost. (sound like a really interest thread start one up)