Is killing wrong?

[Who me]

21 hours ago, brian100 said:

No exception to killing.  David should have let him kill him?

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion?

It is clear from the replies that murder is wrong but that to kill in battle or in the defence of self or others is permitted.

Please reread the answers supplied above.

[Fidei Defensor]

No, it is murder that is sinful. 

“Thou Shalt Not Murder” (Exodus 20:13) 

Murder is: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. 

It is not self defense. Murder is fueled by vendetta and selfish emotions, not self defense and self preservation.  

Sadly confusion over “Thou Shalt Not Kill” when it says “Thou Shalt not Murder,” created a theological dark age called The Crusades. Abbot Cluny developed the Code of Chivalry for knights and men at arms to help them be virtuous because according to Medieval Roman Catholic Church warriors are damned for killing , and Pope Gregory VII sought to make a means for soldiers to be redeemed when they are professional killers, his ideas became mature in Pope Urban II who called for the First Crusade in 1095 A.D. with  Indulgrnce that granted crusaders (crucinatia, crucinatius, milites de christus) absolution of all their sins. The truth is these warriors were soldiers and they were defenders, not murderers, Christ had even told his disciples to arm themselves for defense, “He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36).  Sadly, the false theology of crusade would last from 1095-1492 A.D. when the Spanish Crusade agaiant the Moors called The Reconquista ended.,

This raises another misunderstanding, Bible Teachers claim that King David could not build the temple because “he shed innocent blood,” because he killed people in war. This is wrong, the reason David had blood on his hands was he murdered Uriah and took his wife Bathseba: 

“In the spring,(A) at the time when kings go off to war, David sent Joab(B) out with the king’s men and the whole Israelite army.(C) They destroyed the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah.(D) But David remained in Jerusalem.

2 One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof(E)of the palace. From the roof he saw(F) a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, 3 and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, “She is Bathsheba,(G) the daughter of Eliam(H) and the wife of Uriah(I) the Hittite.” 4 Then David sent messengers to get her.(J) She came to him, and he slept(K) with her. (Now she was purifying herself from her monthly uncleanness.)(L)Then she went back home. 5 The woman conceived and sent word to David, saying, “I am pregnant.”

6 So David sent this word to Joab: “Send me Uriah(M) the Hittite.” And Joab sent him to David. 7 When Uriah came to him, David asked him how Joab was, how the soldiers were and how the war was going.8 Then David said to Uriah, “Go down to your house and wash your feet.”(N) So Uriah left the palace, and a gift from the king was sent after him. 9 But Uriah slept at the entrance to the palace with all his master’s servants and did not go down to his house.

10 David was told, “Uriah did not go home.” So he asked Uriah, “Haven’t you just come from a military campaign? Why didn’t you go home?”

11 Uriah said to David, “The ark(O)and Israel and Judah are staying in tents,[a] and my commander Joab and my lord’s men are camped in the open country. How could I go to my house to eat and drink and make love(P) to my wife? As surely as you live, I will not do such a thing!”

12 Then David said to him, “Stay here one more day, and tomorrow I will send you back.” So Uriah remained in Jerusalem that day and the next.13 At David’s invitation, he ate and drank with him, and David made him drunk. But in the evening Uriah went out to sleep on his mat among his master’s servants; he did not go home.

14 In the morning David wrote a letter(Q) to Joab and sent it with Uriah. 15 In it he wrote, “Put Uriah out in front where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down(R) and die.(S)”

16 So while Joab had the city under siege, he put Uriah at a place where he knew the strongest defenders were. 17 When the men of the city came out and fought against Joab, some of the men in David’s army fell; moreover, Uriah the Hittite died.

18 Joab sent David a full account of the battle. 19 He instructed the messenger: “When you have finished giving the king this account of the battle, 20 the king’s anger may flare up, and he may ask you, ‘Why did you get so close to the city to fight? Didn’t you know they would shoot arrows from the wall? 21 Who killed Abimelek(T) son of Jerub-Besheth[b]? Didn’t a woman drop an upper millstone on him from the wall,(U) so that he died in Thebez? Why did you get so close to the wall?’ If he asks you this, then say to him, ‘Moreover, your servant Uriah the Hittite is dead.’”

22 The messenger set out, and when he arrived he told David everything Joab had sent him to say. 23 The messenger said to David, “The men overpowered us and came out against us in the open, but we drove them back to the entrance of the city gate. 24 Then the archers shot arrows at your servants from the wall, and some of the king’s men died. Moreover, your servant Uriah the Hittite is dead.”

25 David told the messenger, “Say this to Joab: ‘Don’t let this upset you; the sword devours one as well as another. Press the attack against the city and destroy it.’ Say this to encourage Joab.”

26 When Uriah’s wife heard that her husband was dead, she mourned for him. 27 After the time of mourning(V)was over, David had her brought to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing David had done displeased(W) the Lord.” (2 Samuel 11:127). 

That is why David could not build the temple, he murdered Uriah. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[AngelInTraining93]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:35 PM, brian100 said:

I read the story of David and how he threw small rock and it killed the faithless barbarian. So, I know there is circumstances that require it.

Agree with you 100%. God took credit for the flood. God took credit for the miracles in Egypt that included drowning the Egyptian army in the Red Sea. Elijah called down fire from Heaven to kill one hundred men. God himself has taken credit for killing. Is this not proof enough that killing and murder have different meanings? "Now is come the time for him...who is without a sword to sell his cloak and buy one." - Jesus Christ, Luke 22:36. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by AngelInTraining93
Forgot a word

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

Is killing wrong?

Yes, the sin don't have excuses.

On 7/22/2020 at 6:35 PM, brian100 said:

I read the story of David and how he threw small rock and it killed the faithless barbarian. So, I know there is circumstances that require it.

The Creator allow this in virtue of the hardness of the hearts (see Mat 19) and so that we can see that it isn't by force or violence that the things will be sort out, but by the Holy Spirit (Zec 4:6; Rom 15:4). Note that, despite all victories that the Creator imparted to David, very soon the Israelites swerved of Him and His commandments and until today they don't recognize Jesus is the true Messiah.

[Riverwalker]

Gonna keep it simple.  Murder (the ending of a life for self serving, selfish reasons) Is sin

Killing....if it is not murder, probably not.  But it is situational.  Sin is never in the what, it is always in the why.

The motive

Did you get drunk and stupidly get behind the wheel of a car because you didn't care....yeah that is not Murder, but it is sin

Someone breaks into your house and threatens harm to you or yours and you drop them like a bad habit, probably not

[Aries2020]

The context of do not kill in the first covenant meant the Hebrews were not to murder someone unlawfully or that would constitute murder and they would be held accountable.

The only times they could lawfully take someones life and be held blameless was in war against their enemies or when relevant commandments or statutes were broken and they were commanded under the law to take somebodies life.

The army of Israel were fighting one of their enemies, so it was lawful for them and David to kill their enemies and still obey the commandment do not kill unlawfully.  

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Aries2020

[HAZARD]

The giant goliath cursed at him, hurling threats and insults. David said to the Philistine, “You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied … today I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds of the air … and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. God used David to kill goliath, Sam. 17.

[Billiards Ball]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:35 PM, brian100 said:

I read the story of David and how he threw small rock and it killed the faithless barbarian. So, I know there is circumstances that require it.

Murder - unrighteous killing

Execution - sometimes sanctioned by God or government

 

The command of Exodus 20 is Thou Shalt Not Murder.

[Willa]

without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.  Jesus took our sin upon Himself on the cross.  God purposed that His only Son be killed for our sin.  God believes in capital punishment.  He commanded that some people be killed for their sin.  We sin when we don't do that in our state prisons, but we are Christians are not under the OT law.  We are forgiven under the finished work of the cross.  However, unbelievers are still under the law.  The law is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ.

[com7fy8]

Well, when Jesus rose from the dead, He was “a life-giving spirit” > in 1 Corinthians 15:45. So, first of all, we in Jesus are life-giving with Him. We are able to minister God's grace >  1 Peter 4:9-10 > to help people to be alive in God's own love.

And "first of all" > Paul says for us to pray for all people >  

"Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:1-4)

So, we in Jesus are specialized for love and mercy and compassion and forgiveness. And our Heavenly Father is able to manage things in His all-control; He knows what really will happen to us, and how He wants us to be ready . . . for what really is going to happen. And Peter does say >

"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

So, if we do what God wants, He will take care of us.

God will guide us according to all He knows is really going to happen.

I know church people who carry guns to protect their church members from being killed, but they won't wear a mask that can help to keep them themselves from helping to kill certain members who could die of COVID-19. They say no one is going to use fear to make them wear a mask, but they let themselves be controlled to carry guns.

So, what spirit has a person getting a gun? Ones have gotten weapons, but they themselves have turned out to be killers and domestic abusers. Ones can have a lording-over spirit, but God's word clearly does say >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

So, if I were to arm myself, I would need to prepare the right way, so I am not trying to be a lord over others, as though a weapon gives me real power and status. And, of course, would this be a good investment of my attention, and time, and money, and relating and ministering?

Edited October 2, 2021 by com7fy8
missing periods, improve wording