The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

"Saints", does not exclusively apply to the members of the kingdom/church of the NT.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make

 

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

His coming FOR His saints will have ZERO signs!

Does His coming for his saints mean ALL of them that are alive and remain, because I have never read where there is a separating of them.  Believer or non believer.  Those are the choices.  
 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Webster's Dictionary is any of the dictionaries edited by Noah Webster in the early nineteenth century, and numerous related or unrelated dictionaries that have adopted the Webster's name. "Webster's" has become a genericized trademark in the U.S. for dictionaries of the English language, and is widely used in English dictionary titles

Oh,  was he a Christian?  

 

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

The souls of the OT are also considered saints.

"Saints" can be OT or NT, and this factor should be considered and determined in the context. (Especially prophecy)

"Saints", does not exclusively apply to the members of the kingdom/church of the NT.

Could you show it in Scripture?  I learn so much better that way. 

From the definition Saints "set apart"
set apart by (or for) God, 

Is there some prophecy that would render a saint not a saint?  

Aren't all Christians saints?  
 

different from THE WORLD , because like the Lord

distinct i.e. BECAUSE SPECIAL TO THE LORD


 

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What is the meaning of this? It is very simple: He was in the Spirit on a SUNDAY. Plain and simple. 

What WAS plain, and would have been simple is to use the word that was always used, Sabbath. 

Since Sabbath wasn't used and we know Gods word is plain and simple, then Sabbath ISN'T WHAT WAS MEANT.  

WHAT WAS MEANT PLAIN IN SIMPLE IT "THE LORDS DAY"



LIKE YOU YOURSELF JUST SAID,   "you only found ONE place it was ever called that".   Do you understand the significance of that?


What is the subject of the  BOOK OF REVELATION?   " THE LORDS DAY " what comes before during and after.  It isn't the Sabbath day.  So using "The Lord's Day" to mean Sabbath, IN A BOOK on the Revealing of the Lord,  is called CONFUSION.  PLAIN AND SIMPLE 


Wouldn't God have used Sabbath, if indeed that was the day?  Doesn't the "the Lords Day" draw your attention to something new coming about?  Make you stop and think "what are we being told here?" 

Again, it doesn't fit with what the THEORY demands be true.  
Alternatives must be found.  Other meanings must be suppled.  One card falls, they all fall down 


Gentiles grafted "in amongst" followed  at some point in time, somehow, CHANGES TO  gentile church.  BUT NOT BY GOD.  OR GIVE ME ALL THE CHAPTERS AND VERSES.  
 
The 2nd Advent becomes  the "2 stage advent"



THE COMMAND followed by this WARNING of coming quickly to remove THE CANDLESTICK OUT 

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; OR ELSE I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent

becomes the ACTUAL GOAL.
 
 SEE THE "OR ELSE" or does that mean something different too?


This command
To him that overcometh
becomes left behind

This promise 
will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
WHICH is given for THE FULFILLMENT  the command,  
becomes something given to those not fulfilling the command


Then we have this church staying (or as it is put forth in the THEORY "is left behind")

behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life
while others are "taken away to safety".  


If "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death"
does that mean that those from the THEORY  that fly away  BEFORE OVERCOMING
MAY BE HURT BY THE SECOND DEATH?

 

OH HOUSE OF JACOB, THE 12 TRIBES AKA 

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY PERSON WHO ACCEPTS CHRIST AS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOUR BECOMES ABRAHAMS SEED.  

HOW DID GODS PLAN CHANGE??

SALVATION WAS OFFERED TO THE GENTILE NATIONS.  

GOD DIDN'T MAKE A SEPARATE PLAN FOR THEM.  

GOD BROUGHT THEM IN AMONGST THOSE HE HAD ALREADY CHOSEN

HE BLINDED THOSE ALREADY AND FOREVER HIS  TILL HE COULD CALL ALL THE GENTILE NATIONS TO JOIN (AMONGST OTHER THINGS) UNTIL EVERYONE, EVERYONE WHO WANTED TO WAS AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO JOIN.

THE SECOND THEY ACCEPT SALVATION

THEY BECOME 

EXACTLY  THE SAME AS THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE THEM, 

ABRAHAMS SEED.  

GOD HAS A PLAN FOR ABRAHAMS SEED.  GOD HAS MADE PROMISES TO THEM.  ACCEPTING OUR LORD MAKES EVERYONE ABRAHAMS SEED.  GODS PLAN IS FOR ABRAHAMS SEED

NOWHERE DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY HE HAS CREATED A PLAN FOR THE OLD ABRAHAMS SEED (BLOODLINE) AND THE NEW ABRAHAMS SEED (GRAFTED IN) SEPARATE FROM EACH OTHER.

ABRAHAMS SEED  EQUALS BELIEVER

NOT ABRAHAMS SEE  EQUALS NON BELIEVER

SUPER SIMPLE

THERE IS NO CHURCH AGE IN THE WORD OF GOD. 

UNTIL THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES COMES IN

DOES NOT END AN AGE, IT ENDS A CALLING

A CALLING FOR WHAT????   TO BECOME ABRAHAMS SEED.  

WHAT IT DOES NOT DO IS SET UP A GROUP FOR A PRE TRIB RAP OR ELSE ALL OF ABRAHAMS SEED WOULD BE CHANGING AT THE SAME TIME  (WHICH THEY WILL BUT NOT BEFORE SATAN COMES TO DECEIVE

WE ARE EITHER ABRAHAMS SEED OR WE ARE GENTILE.  

TRYING TO READ THE WORD OF GOD FROM ANY OTHER PERSPECTIVE WILL ONLY CAUSE CONFUSION AND DIVISION

ONCE  ANYONE BECOMES ABRAHAMS SEED THE WHOLE WORD OF GOD IS WRITTEN TO YOU.  

YOU ARE NOT ON THE FRINGE, OR THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN OR THE INSIDE LOOKING OUT YOU ARE MADE ONE.  

ONE.  NON DIVISIBLE.  SINGLE.  

ALL THE REST IS JUST SMOKE AND MIRRORS.









Isaiah 48:1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

Isaiah 48:2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name.

Isaiah 48:3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

Isaiah 48:4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;

Isaiah 48:5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

Isaiah 48:6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.

Isaiah 48:7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

Isaiah 48:8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

Isaiah 48:9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Isaiah 48:14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.

Isaiah 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Isaiah 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Isaiah 48:18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Isaiah 48:19 Thy seed also had been as the sand, and the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; his name should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me.

Isaiah 48:20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.

Isaiah 48:21 And they thirsted not when he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out.

Isaiah 48:22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.


Isaiah 49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.


Isaiah 49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

[Justin Adams]

31 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

This may well be true, but John called SOME day of the week "the Lord's Day.

And therefore, in context and knowing what we do about John, it would have been a Sabbath day.

Yeshua always was Lord of the Sabbath.

From the very beginning, it was Always The Lord's day. The Sabbath! Yes even before sin entered into it all and the general mishmash of mishandled scriptures like we seem to have today.

After about 400 AD all bets were off and the Priests now lorded it over the people unopposed and told them what was healthy for them to think and believe. Not so today. A wealth of ancient texts turned up in ad 1947. And more are being annotated and transcribed even as we speak. There is a plethora of writings to take note of, even though 'the church' frowns on this and had its 'reformed canon' proclaimed to keep people in the dark. Nevertheless. the light shines through. The light of truth if one dares to circumvent the 'rules' and actually study what the first century believers had at their disposal.

[abcdef]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't understand the point you are trying to make

Could you show it in Scripture?  I learn so much better that way. 

From the definition Saints "set apart"
set apart by (or for) God, 

Is there some prophecy that would render a saint not a saint?  

Aren't all Christians saints?  
 

different from THE WORLD , because like the Lord

distinct i.e. BECAUSE SPECIAL TO THE LORD
 

Just look at the word "saint"or "saints" anywhere in the OT.

Psa 16:3, 34:9.

It is talking about OT saints.

The point is that when people read the Revelation, they forget that when it is saying saints, that it can be OT saints, or include OT saints, and may not be referring to NT saints, exclusive of OT saints. 

What it means is that the "saints" seen with Jesus in 96 AD in the throne room, Rev 5, are the OT saints that were resurrected with Jesus,

and not the kingdom/church/NT saints from a future to us resurrection.

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

ed 10 hours ago

  On 8/12/2020 at 3:45 PM, abcdef said:

"Saints", does not exclusively apply to the members of the kingdom/church of the NT.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make

Could we call the 144,000 "saints?" Could we call those that will flee into the wilderness "saints?" They will all turn to Jesus when they SEE Him.

[Spock]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Could we call the 144,000 "saints?" Could we call those that will flee into the wilderness "saints?" They will all turn to Jesus when they SEE Him.

Glad to see you finally made it back here. Don’t forget to answer my post to you in this thread. I will try to stay up waiting for it, but I’m getting tired. I kayaked for two hours tonight and am exhausted. 

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Lamad said:

His coming FOR His saints will have ZERO signs!

Does His coming for his saints mean ALL of them that are alive and remain, because I have never read where there is a separating of them.  Believer or non believer.  Those are the choices.  

If we limit our search to just 1 Thes. 4 & 5, it would be all who are born again. But if we search the scriptures, it makes us have second thoughts. For example, one scripture says He will appear to those who are LOOKING for Him. It is VERY possible someone born again has convinced themselves they will see the Antichrist first, so may not be looking for Him when He comes.

Suppose a saint is in the act of committing fornication When Christ comes: will Jesus call him or her up? Just saying....

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Lamad wrote: Webster created an English dictionary, now called Meriam Webster's Dictionary.

Oh,  was he a Christian?  

Actually, he translated the entire bible into English. I think all by himself.

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

...

What WAS plain, and would have been simple is to use the word that was always used, Sabbath. 

Since Sabbath wasn't used and we know Gods word is plain and simple, then Sabbath ISN'T WHAT WAS MEANT.  

WHAT WAS MEANT PLAIN IN SIMPLE IT "THE LORDS DAY"

LIKE YOU YOURSELF JUST SAID,   "you only found ONE place it was ever called that".   Do you understand the significance of that?

What is the subject of the  BOOK OF REVELATION?   " THE LORDS DAY " what comes before during and after.  It isn't the Sabbath day.  So using "The Lord's Day" to mean Sabbath, IN A BOOK on the Revealing of the Lord,  is called CONFUSION.  PLAIN AND SIMPLE 


Wouldn't God have used Sabbath, if indeed that was the day?  Doesn't the "the Lords Day" draw your attention to something new coming about?  Make you stop and think "what are we being told here?" 

Again, it doesn't fit with what the THEORY demands be true.  
Alternatives must be found.  Other meanings must be suppled.  One card falls, they all fall down 

As I said, it was used only once and that in a very minor way, as the day of the week that John was caught up in the Spirit. We cannot try and put words in John's mouth as of to say he SHOULD have used this word or that word. he said, "I was in the spirit on the Lord's day." Plain and simple. So this is the ONLY verse we have to determine the meaning. Some people, in error, imagine He was transported in time to the future Day of the Lord." I don't buy that theory either, for when the vision first started, God was showing John a vision of the throne room while Jesus was still on the earth - or under the earth. I disagree that He rose on a Saturday, the Sabbath. At lease He was first SEEN early Sunday morning. So the early believers started gathering on that day. One thing is certain, John never called "the Day of the Lord" as "the Lord's day," nor did any other NT writer. 

I don't think "the Lord's day" has much to do with the title of the book, either, except both include "the Lord."  

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

...
Gentiles grafted "in amongst" followed  at some point in time, somehow, CHANGES TO  gentile church.  BUT NOT BY GOD.  OR GIVE ME ALL THE CHAPTERS AND VERSES.  
 
The 2nd Advent becomes  the "2 stage advent"

Romans 16:4
who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

I will freely admit that "Gentile church" is man made; but then, so is the "trinity."  So is "the rapture." 

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

What is the meaning, "be come in?" I think it is obvious: the Gentiles becoming born again. There is a scriptural basis for calling the church of today "the Gentile church:" it's mostly made up of Gentiles. 

Perhaps you can come up with a better title. I certainly did not "coin" this title. 

Who came up with "the second advent?" That too is a man made title. Jesus never said it. We have to go by what is written. I find enough written evidence to say He will be coming TWICE more.  But I can count: I call His coming to Armageddon his THIRD coming.

Edited August 14, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

...

If "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death"
does that mean that those from the THEORY  that fly away  BEFORE OVERCOMING
MAY BE HURT BY THE SECOND DEATH?

Did you not read?

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Born again people are ALREADY overcomers. We don't have to overcome anything else except sin in our life. However, all those left behind that turn to God will CERTAINLY have to overcome. Did you not read?

Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This is how those left behind will overcome: they will die rather than take the mark.

By the way, ANYONE partaking of the first resurrection cannot be hurt by the second.