Woman of revelation 12?

[Markesmith]

The woman is Mary!

Rev 12 is gen 3 writ large, the woman of gen 3:15 she has enmity with the dragon!

The man child is Christ! Who rules the nations!

Her offspring or children are Christians not Jews!

 

^{rev 12:17} And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Not Israel! Jews do not have the testimony of Jesus!

[canada]

Already a topic in "Prophecy".

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Markesmith said:

The woman is Mary!

Rev 12 is gen 3 writ large, the woman of gen 3:15 she has enmity with the dragon!

The man child is Christ! Who rules the nations!

Her offspring or children are Christians not Jews!

 

^{rev 12:17} And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Not Israel! Jews do not have the testimony of Jesus!

Wow. No.

[Markesmith]

Are you making an infallible decree or do you have scripture for me?

who is the man child who rules the nations with an iron rod?

(Jesus Christ)

who is His mother?

(The Virgin Mary)

(the mother of God according to the Bible Lk 1:43)

who are her children?

(faithful Christians who keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus, also verified in John 19:26-27

When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thyson! Then saith he to the disciple, Beholdthy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

refers to all disciples! the savior declares “Behold Thy Mother“!

[Markie51]

The woman that John see in heaven is not a literal woman.  She is a sign, or a symbol.-Revelation 1:1.

In some scriptures, women are represent as organizations “married” to inanimate things/beings.  In the Old Testament, Israel was spoken of as a wife of God. (Isaiah 54:5; Jeremiah 3:14, 20)   In the New Testament, the congregation of anointed Christians is spoken of as Christ’s bride. (Revelation 21:9-14)  The symbolic woman John sees is also symbolically married to someone, and she is about to give birth.  Later her child is “caught away to God and to his throne.” (Revelation 12:5)  God claims the child as his own.  Therefore, the woman that John sees must be God’s symbolic wife.

Centuries earlier, God had addressed this symbolic wife. (Isaiah 54:5, 13)  Jesus quoted this prophecy and showed that these sons were his faithful followers, who later formed the congregation of anointed Christians. (John 6:44, 45)  So these members, spoken of as God’s sons, are also children of God’s symbolic wife. (Romans 8:14)  The apostle Paul adds the final piece of information when he says: “The Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.” (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 4:26; Philippians 3:20)  The “woman” seen by John, then, is “the Jerusalem above.”

Since Paul spoke of her as “above,” and John sees her in heaven, she is clearly not an earthly city; neither is she the same as “New Jerusalem,” since that organization is the bride of Christ. (Revelation 21:2)  Notice that she is crowned with 12 stars.  The number 12 is associated with completeness in an organizational setting.  Hence, these 12 stars seem to indicate that she is an organizational arrangement in heaven, just as ancient Jerusalem was on earth.  Jerusalem above is Jehovah’s universal organization of spirit creatures that acts as his wife, both in serving him and in producing symbolic offspring.

In the Bible, labor pains often symbolize the hard work needed to produce an important result. (Compare Psalm 90:2; Proverbs 25:23; Isaiah 66:7, 8.)  No doubt labor pains of this kind were experienced as God’s heavenly organization prepared for this historic birth.

[other one]

That sign in the heavens actually existed not long ago.

[Your closest friendnt]

19 hours ago, Josheb said:

Israel is not a woman. Exodus 4:22 

Hosea 11:1

Matthew 2:15

Jesus is Israel.  

 

The more salient point would seem to be if Mary is the woman and Jesus is the seed and the war is with her child then at least that portion of Revelation has already been fulfilled and is not something we need to look for any more. 

What do you make of the verse that states the woman is "clothed with the sun" and has a crown of twelve stars? 

Then look at verse 5. It says she births the son, the son is to rule, and the son gets caught up to God and His throne. Do you think that verses should be read sequentially as stated? Or do you think that verse should be read either 1) the rule occurs from the throne to which the son is caught up, or 3) the son rules after having been caught up to the throne? If the latter, what if anything is it a) in this specific chapter that might lead a person to that point of view and b) within the book of Revelation that might do so? 

It's not about Mary, Mary understand that she was chosen and because she had knowledge of the history of the doings of God, because by that time almost everyone was well educated about how the Lord had chosen people beginning with Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph....David, Samuel, all the Judges and not to forget the prophets. 

Mary and the people at that time had come to understood something that gave the glory to God and not to themselves. 

This is what they had come to understand, that God had chosen them from their conception and he was nourish them through out their lives without them knowing in the very specific that they were chosen for one of his missions till the time that God informed them. 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Not sure how any of that is relevant. Yes, Mary did know something of what would happen in her future and that of her son's and she knew that regardless of others education regarding how God chooses (by His will and purpose and nothing having to do with the works of will of men). But I am not seeing the relevance to either the op or my op-reply. Both Mary and Israel birthed the Messiah but the important aspect of the text is not the woman; it is the son that is the important person in that text. I was simply pointing out the paradox of saying Israel birthed the son because Jesus is Israel. 

It is again worth noting (as I have done many times in this fourm) Israel is rarely mentioned in the book of Revelation! Only one of the three mentions has anything to do with national Israel. Revelation is not about Israel. Or Mary. It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John! Says so right there in its opening words for all to see and comprehend, 

Revelation 1:1
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants...."

God gave Jesus a revelation of Jesus to tell John. That is the pre-established context for everything else in the book, including the identity of the woman in chapter 12. 

Revelation chapter twelve is a conformation of what the disciples and Paul were teaching about Jesus Christ.

It's a conformation of the fulfillment of the prophetic scriptures that the promised Messiah, the Christ of God the Saviour of the world has come.

We cannot limit the intents of that conformation and the reasons why God gave us something directly from him to John the chosen one of the disciples for revelation from Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that only he at first understood as we read in the Gospel of John.  

John was the youngest of the disciples and by the time Jesus gave him the Revelation he must not only be very old, but also the only one still alive from the twelve disciples.

Jesus had set John apart from his usual missions and separate him unto himself in the Island of Patmos. 

In revelation 12 we observed that the Son was taken up to God, and that the woman who gave birth to him was overshadow by the Holy Spirit of God. 

Exactly what Jesus was saying that God the Heavenly Father is my Father, that I came from God and I will go back to him. 

Jesus Christ the Son of God as the Son of Mary. 

Revelation 12 is a conformation about many things. 

About the vision of Stephen at the time of his death that he show Jesus being exalted by God who made him Lord and sited him on his right on his Throne together with him. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[missmuffet]

On 8/12/2020 at 7:58 PM, Markesmith said:

The woman is Mary!

Rev 12 is gen 3 writ large, the woman of gen 3:15 she has enmity with the dragon!

The man child is Christ! Who rules the nations!

Her offspring or children are Christians not Jews!

 

^{rev 12:17} And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Not Israel! Jews do not have the testimony of Jesus!

It is Israel.

[Leonardo Von]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:58 PM, Markesmith said:

The woman is Mary!

I don't agree because it was said to John that from Revelation 4 on, It would be shown to him the things which must be in the future (Rev 4:1).