Sabbath

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Roar said:

Your reply has nothing to do with the point I am making which is how the Sabbath worship was changed to Sunday worship; when and how it happed . Try addressing my point for a change. 

You are continually beating a dead horse.

So you result in personal attacks.  Fine, I'm done with you.

[Charlie744]

Michael, I don’t think there is any Scripture that would conflict or contradict God’s Word. - that is rule #1!

Rule #2 is- see Rule #1.

If the NT contradicts the OT then I can assure you it is only because we have misinterpreted those verses in the NT.

 I have seen the opinions of some folks based on the 2 or 3 verses they purport allows us to worship on any day we choose but they are absolutely incorrect.

Just take a look at the two comments I mentioned recently:

1) creation of a SEPARATE day in time,

2) God double downed, if you will, by telling us to “remember”...

And I will add a 3rd (without going into all the verses in the NT where Paul, the Apostles, the  early Church kept the Sabbath, and that comes straight from the mouth of Jesus Himself!  Before He returned to God, He specifically told us to “obey His commandments”, and believe in Him.. 

One thing is certainly true, it is OUR choice, not to choose what day is to now be the Sabbath, but are we going to “remember” and “obey” HIM, OR “forget” the Holy Day He created, and “disobey”HIM!

We can honor and obey HIM or we can be a choose not to... this is NOT an intellectual or interpretation exercise. Man can not change something God made Holy... 

What is absolutely unbelievable is:

the organization claiming to have the “power and authority” to change the Sabbath have unequivocally stated “there is NOTHING in the Scriptures that speaks to the changing of the Sabbath”!!!! They only claim they have the authority to change it... given by God!!! 

Charlie

[Michael37]

Just now, Charlie744 said:

Michael, I don’t think there is any Scripture that would conflict or contradict God’s Word. - that is rule #1!

You wouldn't be judging some of us now, would you, Charlie? We won't allow it.

Col 2:16-23 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: (17) which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's. (18) Let no man rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (19) and not holding fast the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and bands, increases with the increase of God. (20) If you died with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances, (21) Handle not, nor taste, nor touch (22) (all which things are to perish with the using), after the precepts and doctrines of men? (23) Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will–worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but are not of any value against the indulgence of the flesh.

[Charlie744]

No Michael, there is no one judging anyone!

 I do believe that is one of the three commonly used verses that are misinterpreted! This does speak to the eating requirements or practices of the Jews and whether they might / should be imposed on the Gentiles... and this was rejected but this does not have anything to do with the Sabbath (big S). 

Even the RCC agrees there is nothing in the NT that allows or calls for the changing of Sabbath!  

If you are comfortable with your decision, I will honor it... no problem at all. Charlie 

[Charlie744]

I would like to mention just how simple this topic is TO ME (ONLY), which means it applies to me only!

1) On one side of the ledger we have the following:

   a) God created a SEPARATE and HOLY day at the beginning of time itself to spend time with HIM on that day (until His 2nd coming),

  b) He literally wrote this Sabbath keeping LAW in writing WITH HIS OWN FINGER, 

   c) Jesus Himself told us to obey HIS commandments prior to His return to God.

On the other side of the ledger, we have a few selected verses in the NT where some have interpreted them in a way that contradicts ALL 3 of those on the other side of the ledger!

In my opinion, we have GOD telling us 3 specific times in 3 special events HIS thoughts and commands. On the other side, we only have man’s interpretations (misinterpretations), of a few NT verses.

Out of the mouth of God Himself or man’s misinterpretations.

Charlie

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

No Michael, there is no one judging anyone!

 I do believe that is one of the three commonly used verses that are misinterpreted! This does speak to the eating requirements or practices of the Jews and whether they might / should be imposed on the Gentiles... and this was rejected but this does not have anything to do with the Sabbath (big S). 

Even the RCC agrees there is nothing in the NT that allows or calls for the changing of Sabbath!  

If you are comfortable with your decision, I will honor it... no problem at all. Charlie 

My previous verse and this verse are both applicable to the weekly Sabbath.

Rom 14:4-6 Who are you that judges the servant of another? to his own lord he stands or falls. Yes, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord has power to make him stand. (5) One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. (6) He that regards the day, regards it unto the Lord:

There are some who believe a person's salvation depends on their observance of the 7th day Sabbath, but the Bible doesn't place such a heavy yoke on us.

Heb 7:19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

[Marathoner]

The 5th chapter of Galatians is well-suited for this topic. Excerpts from the NASB:

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. (verse 1)

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
(verses 16-25)

There is no law against the fruits of the Spirit. Let those of us who are led by the Spirit walk in the freedom which Christ gave to us, unfettered by jealousy and outbursts of anger.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Marathoner

[Charlie744]

Michael, you are free to worship whatever day you want...

There really is nothing more for me to say- God’s own Words and His commandments, or man’s interpretations of a few verses in the NT that completely contradict His Words. 

As I mentioned, this is not a debate between my opinion and yours, rather it is a decision to obey HIS commandments or not!

I am willing to comment on the two new points you just mentioned; the SDA honor the Sabbath, NOT because it is their belief it will save them... No, they keep the Sabbath because they believe it is one of His 10 commandments. One does not receive any addition credit on their scorecard by keeping the Sabbath. It is simply His commandment. Those that have found a way to justify changing one of His 10 commandments will have to take that up with Him. 

Your second comment regarding Heb. 7:19 does nothing to allow us to change His day of Worship (Sabbath). The Law was never meant to save but to convict- No one could possibly keep any one more the 10, even for one day! His death on the Cross provided the ONLY way to Heaven - but the Law or those sins that convict us are certainly always here and are doing quite well . 

I honestly don’t understand why people fight this commandment, yet accept the other 9 are in play. Makes no sense! Satan has indeed selected the easiest commandment to focus on and where we would have the least resistance to change. He would not have had the same success if he tried to get Christians to allow, say murder or anyone of the 6 commandments that deal with man treating man. He selected one of the first 4 that identified God as the Creator and the one God wanted us to “remember”, because that is the most important day of the week where we know exactly where He will be! He said so!

Once again, if those verses speak to you and you are comfortable with them, then you should stick with your beliefs. 

For me, I will try and obey His commandments. Charlie 

 

 

[Charlie744]

Thank you Marathoner!

 I agree, if you live by the Spirit one does not have to concern themselves with the Law. 

Here is a bad example but here goes (and ANY illustration will break down at some level. This may happen earlier than later, but it may get a point across):

Every young person gets their drivers license and will soon drive over the speed limit. Even after getting speeding tickets they will continue... they are certainly under the law. 

When they mature and find it is not so important or necessary to drive over the speed limit, they are now obedient to the law... they are driving in the “spirit” of the law, but the law still exists. It had not been eliminated.

If we turn our lives over to God and ask Him to send His Holy Spirit to us and truly change us from within, He will change us and we will not want to go and do all the things (sins) we used to do. The more He changes is the greater the separation we will have between the law and our actions and thoughts... This process of sanctification will continue to we pass.  If we could only live life and conduct ourselves under the gifts of the Spirit as opposed to the sins of the laws.... 

Charlie

[Michael37]

6 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I am willing to comment on the two new points you just mentioned; the SDA honor the Sabbath, NOT because it is their belief it will save them... No, they keep the Sabbath because they believe it is one of His 10 commandments. One does not receive any addition credit on their scorecard by keeping the Sabbath. It is simply His commandment. Those that have found a way to justify changing one of His 10 commandments will have to take that up with Him. 

Being under the New Covenant in which the Law is fulfilled in Christ makes every day the 7th day. All the work is done and we have entered into the rest prepared by God for His People. 

Heb 4:10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.