Mideast Peace 2.0

[Shilohsfoal]

45 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I got it: you want to rewrite history, but you have been found out. 

Dan. chapter 8

Ram: Darius off Persia
Goat: Alexander the Great"
4 Generals: Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolomy 1, Seleucus
"in the latter time of THEIR kingdom:" the Diadochi

This chapter had nothing to do with our future; it was future to Daniel, HISTORY to us.

Verses:

1-4: the RAM
5-7: the GOAT
8-8 four generals: the diadochi
9-12: The Little Horn: Antiochus
13-14: Saint speaking to Daniel
15-15: a man
16-26: Gabriel explaining 9-12
27-27: Daniel astonished

It is ALL about Persia, Then Greece, then the Diadochi, then the Little horn:
NOTHING about our future.

You went wrong at the generals. 

But according to Daniel, it's about the time of the end. 

You believe the time of the end was in 167 bc. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-17.htm

I believe the time of the end is future. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-19.htm. 

So what was the astounding devastation that took place? 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-24.htm

Was it anything like this time of the end when the king if the north goes forth to destroy and utterly make away many? Was it greater than this tribulation? 

Was that time of the end in 167 anything like this time if the end? 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-1.htm

Edited September 26, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

11 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You went wrong at the generals. 

But according to Daniel, it's about the time of the end. 

You believe the time of the end was in 167 bc. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-17.htm

I believe the time of the end is future. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-19.htm. 

So what was the astounding devastation that took place? 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-24.htm

Was it anything like this time of the end when the king if the north goes forth to destroy and utterly make away many? Was it greater than this tribulation? 

Was that time of the end in 167 anything like this time if the end? 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-1.htm

You went wrong at the generals.   You are trying to rewrite history. 

according to Daniel, it's about the time of the end.  Clearly the end of the four general's kingdoms

You believe the time of the end was in 167 bc.   Yes, but only "the end" of "the indignation" caused by Antiochus You want to rewrite history.

I believe the time of the end is future.   It is, so why are you trying to rewrite history?

So what was the astounding devastation that took place?  You would have to read after the pharisees, which you won't do. Oh, wait: secular history records it too! Among other things, many thousands of Jews where killed. Maybe not as many as 70 AD, but in 70 AD no one hung dead babies around mom's neck with a chain, until they rotted off: the price for circumcision under Antiochus. 

Was it anything like this time of the end when the king if the north goes forth to destroy and utterly make away many? Was it greater than this tribulation?   The future desolation will be worse: Jesus said worse than all time.

Was that time of the end in 167 anything like this time if the end?  Antiochus has been called a TYPE of the Beast to come, because the Beast to come (as the anti-type) will do very similar things; but the next time it will probably be on a global scale, not limited to Jerusalem or Israel. 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You went wrong at the generals.   You are trying to rewrite history. 

according to Daniel, it's about the time of the end.  Clearly the end of the four general's kingdoms

You believe the time of the end was in 167 bc.   Yes, but only "the end" of "the indignation" caused by Antiochus You want to rewrite history.

I believe the time of the end is future.   It is, so why are you trying to rewrite history?

So what was the astounding devastation that took place?  You would have to read after the pharisees, which you won't do. Oh, wait: secular history records it too! Among other things, many thousands of Jews where killed. Maybe not as many as 70 AD, but in 70 AD no one hung dead babies around mom's neck with a chain, until they rotted off: the price for circumcision under Antiochus. 

Was it anything like this time of the end when the king if the north goes forth to destroy and utterly make away many? Was it greater than this tribulation?   The future desolation will be worse: Jesus said worse than all time.

Was that time of the end in 167 anything like this time if the end?  Antiochus has been called a TYPE of the Beast to come, because the Beast to come (as the anti-type) will do very similar things; but the next time it will probably be on a global scale, not limited to Jerusalem or Israel. 

 

So what year was the time of the end? 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-19.htm

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So what year was the time of the end? 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-19.htm

"The end" spoken of in Dan. 8, the end of that particular "indignation" was somewhere around 170 BC. 
Make no mistake, there is an "END" coming; in fact, two more at least: there is the end of the church age coming, then over 7 years later, the end of the 70th week of Daniel or the end of the Jewish age.
 

Sometime MUCH later, there will come and end to the millennial reign.

Edited September 27, 2020 by iamlamad

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

"The end" spoken of in Dan. 8, the end of that particular "indignation" was somewhere around 170 BC. 
Make no mistake, there is an "END" coming; in fact, two more at least: there is the end of the church age coming, that over 7 years later, the end of the 70th week of Daniel or the end of the Jewish age.
 

Sometime MUCH later, there will come and end to the millennial reign.

 

So how many saints do you believe antiochus killed? Scripture says the little horn would kill many of the host of heaven and would magnify himself to the prince of the host of heaven. 

Who is the prince of the host of heaven,? 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/8-10.htm

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/8-11.htm

Edited September 27, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

So how many saints do you believe antiochus killed? Scripture says the little horn would kill many of the host of heaven and would magnify himself to the prince of the host of heaven. 

Who is the prince of the host of heaven,? 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/8-10.htm

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/8-11.htm

⁸ Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

⁹ And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

¹⁰ And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

¹¹ Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

Peake's Commentary: "The interpretation of the vision which is given by Gabriel to Daniel is exceptionally clear, and leaves no manner of doubt that it refers to events of the Maccabean age. The ram with the two horns stands for Medo-Persia. The He-goat is the Greek Empire, the first horn representing Alexander the Great, and the four later horns the four kingdoms into which the empire later split up. The "Little horn" is Antiochus Epiphanes. His attack upon the Jewish religion is clearly described.

It seems very unlikely that the "hosts of heaven" would be angels. No mere man could cast down angels. I may have to change what I have thought about this verse. My thinking now is the "hosts of heaven" would be the priests. 

Benson Comentary:  And it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground — Persons of principal dignity and high offices are often called stars in the Scriptures. In Isaiah 24:21, The host of the high ones that are on high, is explained by Vitringa of the Jewish rulers and people:

Barne's notes: Antiochus, in the fulfillment of this, east down and trampled on the princes, and rulers, and people, of the holy host or army of God. All that is implied in this was abundantly fulfilled in what he did to the Jewish people.

J.F.B. Commentary:  even to … host of heaven—explained in Da 8:24, "the mighty and holy people," that is, the Jews (Da 7:21) and their priests.

Ellicott's Commentary:  Prince of the host—i.e., Jehovah Himself. 

(Some commentaries think the High Priest.) I personally believe the preincarnate Jesus: the "Redeemer" of Isaiah.

According to wikipedia, " In the space of three days, eighty thousand were lost, forty thousand meeting a violent death, and the same number being sold into slavery."

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

⁸ Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

⁹ And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

¹⁰ And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

¹¹ Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

Peake's Commentary: "The interpretation of the vision which is given by Gabriel to Daniel is exceptionally clear, and leaves no manner of doubt that it refers to events of the Maccabean age. The ram with the two horns stands for Medo-Persia. The He-goat is the Greek Empire, the first horn representing Alexander the Great, and the four later horns the four kingdoms into which the empire later split up. The "Little horn" is Antiochus Epiphanes. His attack upon the Jewish religion is clearly described.

It seems very unlikely that the "hosts of heaven" would be angels. No mere man could cast down angels. I may have to change what I have thought about this verse. My thinking now is the "hosts of heaven" would be the priests. 

Benson Comentary:  And it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground — Persons of principal dignity and high offices are often called stars in the Scriptures. In Isaiah 24:21, The host of the high ones that are on high, is explained by Vitringa of the Jewish rulers and people:

Barne's notes: Antiochus, in the fulfillment of this, east down and trampled on the princes, and rulers, and people, of the holy host or army of God. All that is implied in this was abundantly fulfilled in what he did to the Jewish people.

J.F.B. Commentary:  even to … host of heaven—explained in Da 8:24, "the mighty and holy people," that is, the Jews (Da 7:21) and their priests.

Ellicott's Commentary:  Prince of the host—i.e., Jehovah Himself. 

(Some commentaries think the High Priest.) I personally believe the preincarnate Jesus: the "Redeemer" of Isaiah.

According to wikipedia, " In the space of three days, eighty thousand were lost, forty thousand meeting a violent death, and the same number being sold into slavery."

 

Does that mean you don't know or you have no comment? 

How many saints do (you) believe Antiochus killed and who do (you) believe is the prince of the host of heaven? 

 

[TheBlade]

pfft.. sorry.. Falling away... how are do we have to go back to find "falling away" was not the word used? Departure..which is also what that word can mean.  Oh don't worry any one can still make that verse say what they want.

1830.. ever read it? Post it.. I never got "pre-trib" from it. So over the years I searched and found some preacher that also wrote hymns in 300-400AD about Jesus coming before the great tribulation. I saw the scroll. Some time later on TBN a man was showing that exact same thing.. was awesome. Yet he had ever more scrolls where they talked about? Caught up before the great tribulation. OH MY GOSH what does that prove? Nothing haha. Just it was talked preached about. Paul did use a word "We which remain". Not "those that remain".

The Church has been given ALL not some but ALL POWER AUTHORITY over the enemy. What demon what fallen angel what AntiChrist could ever stand against the Church the CHRIST IN US! He and the holy Spirit is always with us. When does that POWER and AUTHORITY stop?

This gets silly. In Lots day God could do nothing as long as lot was there. So now how many righteous are in the world? And we know the wrath of God is not on some city but the world and there is NO place to hide. God could do nothing as long as lot was there. There is no place to hide this time. Wrath is coming on the WORLD. Yet as long as the righteous are here He still can do nothing.

And this peace..if you been around... this talk always happens and who ever started helped the peace deal is the "Antichrist" pfft. So a departure has to happen first..ooh did you catch that? You can now take that verse and twist it any way to fit ones personal belief. The restrainer is still here..when it is taken out of the way then and only then can the lawless one come out in the open and do lying wonders. Odd is it not that he can't come out now... gee what has power over him? you were not promised tomorrow. So why put faith in a day you might never see? Why not live for Jesus believe expect Him in the moment He gave you? For this is the moment you and me will have to answer for. I am watching I am ready. I will never miss Him

So what do I know.. carry on :)...oh I might not agree but.. some posts are ...love reading. Learning more and more thanks

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

Mideast Peace

It only there will be peace (false peace, indeed) in the Mideast when the antichrist sign the accord of peace with Israel for seven years (Dan 9:27)