What is a "soul?"

[Retrobyter]

13 hours ago, Frits said:

(Retrobyter, talking about the Lord Jesus:)
 
    "He is NOT NOW God"

These are your words Retrobyter.  I'm going to put it next to the Bible now, so that everyone can draw their own conclusion:
 

1. Heb.1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Shalom, Frits.

I say this very carefully: You misjudge me, my brother. He is the SON OF GOD! He was GOD THE WORD (not "GOD THE SON"; that was FABRICATED - MADE UP - by theologians)! He is God's REPRESENTATIVE, and He IS already presented as the King of the Jews (the tribe of Yhudah or "Judah") and shall be the King of Israel when He returns and shall be the World Emperor (the King of kings, and Lord of lords) in the future after His coming. As such, He is God's MEDIATOR - GO-BETWEEN - between God and humanity! From our perspective below Him, He is LIKE God to us! He has God's AUTHORITY and He will be humanity's JUDGE! When I said, "He is NOT NOW God," it is a TECHNICALITY because one of GOD'S attributes is omnipresence or being present EVERYWHERE! Yeshua` is RESTRICTED physically to His flesh, even now when resurrected! I mean Him NO DISRESPECT! That's why He was able to LEAVE US - to LEAVE THIS WORLD - and to COME AGAIN! If Yeshua` was "omnipresent," then He would still be here and would NEVER be able to "go to His Father," per se!

Now, let's go through these passages of Scripture: First, it is a VERY COMMON mistake by Christians to reduce things to a single verse. But, it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so and still get the gist of what is going on in those Scriptures! So, let's open these single verses up into their CONTEXTS:

Hebrews 1:1-14 (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,

"Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee"? (Psalm 2:7)

And again,

"I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son"? (2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chronicles 17:13)

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith,

"And let all the angels of God worship (bow to) him." (Deuteronomy 32:43)

7 And of the angels he saith,

"Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire." (Psalm 104:4)

8 But unto the Son he saith,

"Thy throne, O God (the Father), is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 
9 "Thou (the Son) hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God (the Father), even thy God, hath anointed thee (made you into an Anointed One, a Messiah) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."  (Psalm 45:6-7)

10 And, 

thou, Lord, "in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail." (Psalm 102:25-27)

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time,

"Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" (Psalm 110:1)

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Verses 10-12 are foreshadowing the following ...

Hebrews 13:7-14 (KJV)

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation: 

8 "Jesus Christ (Yeshua` the Messiah) the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. 10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. 11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without (outside) the camp. 12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without (outside) the gate. 13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without (outside) the camp, bearing his reproach. 14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

And, I do NOT deny that Yeshua` was with God as the Word through which the heavens and the earth were created! However, you should also know that I see verse 8 here as a HALF line, not a WHOLE line, of time. because Yeshua` had a beginning when the Word was made flesh. That's what God was talking about when He said to Yeshua`, "this day have I begotten thee!" (Psalm 2:7)

Quote

2. 1Ti.3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

YES, God (the Father) WAS "manifest" or rather, "REVEALED" in the flesh (of the Son), because Yeshua` Himself said,

John 14:9-14 (KJV)

9 Jesus saith unto him,

"Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name (authority), that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name (authority), I will do it.

And,

John 8:12-30 (KJV)

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,

"I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him,

"Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true."

14 Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. 15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."

19 Then said they unto him,

"Where is thy Father?"

Jesus answered,

"Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."

20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come. 21 Then said Jesus again unto them,

"I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come."

22 Then said the Jews,

"Will he kill himself? because he saith, 'Whither I go, ye cannot come.'

23 And he said unto them,

"Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

25 Then said they unto him,

"Who art thou?"

And Jesus saith unto them,

"Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him."

27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them,

"When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him." 

30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

 

Quote

3. Rm.9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen.

Romans 5:1-5 (KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ (in the Messiah), I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ (from the Messiah) for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ (the Messiah) came, who is over all, God blessed for ever (God-blessed into the ages). Amen.

I don't know what version you're using, but ... oops.

Quote

4. Act 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Acts 20:17-35 (KJV)

17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. 18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them,

"Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons, 19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews: 20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. 22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: 23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 "And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he (Yeshua`) hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. 33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. 35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."

There's a division in the passage between God the Father and His Son Yeshua` the Messiah, and both are mentioned in Paul's words throughout his farewell address.

Quote

5.1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

 

Well now Retrobyter who wrote the truth, the apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, or you?

1 John 5:1-20 (KJV)

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ (Yeshua` is the Messiah) is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat (God the Father) loveth him also that is begotten of him (Yeshua` the Messiah). 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God (the Father), and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus (Yeshua`) is the Son of God (the Father)? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God (the Father) which he hath testified of his Son (Yeshua` the Messiah). 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God (the Father) hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God (the Father) gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

18 We know that whosoever is born of God (the Father) sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God (the Father), and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true (God the Father), and we are in him that is true, even (and) in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

The Greek translated word-for-word for verse 20 is this:

20 But we know that the Son of the God is come, and has given us understanding so that we may know the [One who is] true (God the Father); and we are in the [One who is] true (God the Father), in the Son of Him (God the Father), Yeshua` the Messiah. He (God the Father) is the true God (the Father) and life eternal.

Don't confuse the two being spoken about here.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add the correct passage of Scripture for #5

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Frits.

I say this very carefully: You misjudge me, my brother. He is the SON OF GOD! He was GOD THE WORD (not "GOD THE SON"; that was FABRICATED - MADE UP - by theologians)! He is God's REPRESENTATIVE, and He IS already presented as the King of the Jews (the tribe of Yhudah or "Judah") and shall be the King of Israel when He returns and shall be the World Emperor (the King of kings, and Lord of lords) in the future after His coming. As such, He is God's MEDIATOR - GO-BETWEEN - between God and humanity! From our perspective below Him, He is LIKE God to us! He has God's AUTHORITY and He will be humanity's JUDGE! When I said, "He is NOT NOW God," it is a TECHNICALITY because one of GOD'S attributes is omnipresence or being present EVERYWHERE! Yeshua` is RESTRICTED physically to His flesh, even now when resurrected! I mean Him NO DISRESPECT! That's why He was able to LEAVE US - to LEAVE THIS WORLD - and to COME AGAIN! If Yeshua` was "omnipresent," then He would still be here and would NEVER be able to "go to His Father," per se!

Now, let's go through these passages of Scripture: First, it is a VERY COMMON mistake by Christians to reduce things to a single verse. But, it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so and still get the gist of what is going on in those Scriptures! So, let's open these single verses up into their CONTEXTS:

Hebrews 1:1-14 (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,

"Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee"? (Psalm 2:7)

And again,

"I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son"? (2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chronicles 17:13)

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith,

"And let all the angels of God worship (bow to) him." (Deuteronomy 32:43)

7 And of the angels he saith,

"Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire." (Psalm 104:4)

8 But unto the Son he saith,

"Thy throne, O God (the Father), is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 
9 "Thou (the Son) hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God (the Father), even thy God, hath anointed thee (made you into an Anointed One, a Messiah) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."  (Psalm 45:6-7)

10 And, 

thou, Lord, "in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail." (Psalm 102:25-27)

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time,

"Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" (Psalm 110:1)

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Verses 10-12 are foreshadowing the following ...

Hebrews 13:7-14 (KJV)

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation: 

8 "Jesus Christ (Yeshua` the Messiah) the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. 10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. 11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without (outside) the camp. 12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without (outside) the gate. 13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without (outside) the camp, bearing his reproach. 14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

And, I do NOT deny that Yeshua` was with God as the Word through which the heavens and the earth were created! However, you should also know that I see verse 8 here as a HALF line, not a WHOLE line, of time. because Yeshua` had a beginning when the Word was made flesh. That's what God was talking about when He said to Yeshua`, "this day have I begotten thee!" (Psalm 2:7)

YES, God (the Father) WAS "manifest" or rather, "REVEALED" in the flesh (of the Son), because Yeshua` Himself said,

John 14:9-14 (KJV)

9 Jesus saith unto him,

"Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name (authority), that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name (authority), I will do it.

And,

John 8:12-30 (KJV)

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,

"I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him,

"Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true."

14 Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. 15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."

19 Then said they unto him,

"Where is thy Father?"

Jesus answered,

"Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."

20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come. 21 Then said Jesus again unto them,

"I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come."

22 Then said the Jews,

"Will he kill himself? because he saith, 'Whither I go, ye cannot come.'

23 And he said unto them,

"Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

25 Then said they unto him,

"Who art thou?"

And Jesus saith unto them,

"Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him."

27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them,

"When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him." 

30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

 

Romans 5:1-5 (KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ (in the Messiah), I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ (from the Messiah) for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ (the Messiah) came, who is over all, God blessed for ever (God-blessed into the ages). Amen.

I don't know what version you're using, but ... oops.

 

Acts 20:17-

17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. 18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them,

"Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons, 19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews: 20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. 22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: 23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 "And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he (Yeshua`) hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. 33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. 35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."

 

1 John 5:17-35 (KJV)

17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. 18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them,

"Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons, 19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews: 20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God (the Father), and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (our Master Yeshua` the Messiah). 22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: 23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus (the Master Yeshua`), to testify the gospel of the grace of God (the Father).

25 "And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God (the Father). 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he (Yeshua`) hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. 33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. 35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."

There's a division in the passage between God the Father and His Son Yeshua` the Messiah, and both are mentioned in Paul's words throughout his farewell address.

 

The only response to this is the one from Jesus, Himself when He responded to Caiaphas question if He was the Christ, the Son of God and Jesus answered, "I am". This of course tied directly back to Moses when He told him, "I AM who sent you", or "I AM THAT I AM".

Jesus had no beginning and no end... Charlie

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

The only response to this is the one from Jesus, Himself when He responded to Caiaphas question if He was the Christ, the Son of God and Jesus answered, "I am". This of course tied directly back to Moses when He told him, "I AM who sent you", or "I AM THAT I AM".

Jesus had no beginning and no end... Charlie

I have a question and hope that you will not be annoyed. 

Why the disciples kept saying that Jesus created all things when they knew when he was born, and that every thing was created before Jesus was born.

What did they understood? 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I have a question and hope that you will be not annoyed. 

Why the disciples keep saying that Jesus created all things when they knew when he was born, and that every thing was created before Jesus was born.

What did they understood? 

 

Thanks for your question... to me, it appears they had NO REAL UNDERSTANDING of what HE meant by this AND just about everything else He said. Here were 12 of His chosen people who lived and witnessed with Him for 3.5 years. They heard Him say the most remarkable things..... and anyone can misunderstand things and other things that will just go over their heads - the 12 would not have been immune to these normal human frailties. However, they all witnessed so many of His miracles from healing the sick, the blind, the leper, and of course the dead, YET, not one of them could comprehend this individual WAS GOD ON EARTH. This is because even though He came to earth as a "lowly / humble" individual, and despite all He did in front of them, GOD IS JUST TOO BIG FOR US TO TRULY COMPREHEND. 

They ran when He was taken by the Pharisees, they denied Him at His trial, they certainly did not believe or understand He would be resurrected on the 3rd day..... and even after the 1o literally say Him alive, we have Thomas refuse to believe until he put his hands into His wounds.

I really can not emphasize it enough that God IS SIMPLY TOO BIG FOR US TO UNDERSTAND AND COMPREHEND. This does not mean we are not or can not be a believer, a follower, a worshipper, etc., of the Messiah, and be so much better human beings, but I do not believe anyone can fathom HIM.... 

Look forward to your thoughts, Charlie

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your question... to me, it appears they had NO REAL UNDERSTANDING of what HE meant by this AND just about everything else He said. Here were 12 of His chosen people who lived and witnessed with Him for 3.5 years. They heard Him say the most remarkable things..... and anyone can misunderstand things and other things that will just go over their heads - the 12 would not have been immune to these normal human frailties. However, they all witnessed so many of His miracles from healing the sick, the blind, the leper, and of course the dead, YET, not one of them could comprehend this individual WAS GOD ON EARTH. This is because even though He came to earth as a "lowly / humble" individual, and despite all He did in front of them, GOD IS JUST TOO BIG FOR US TO TRULY COMPREHEND. 

They ran when He was taken by the Pharisees, they denied Him at His trial, they certainly did not believe or understand He would be resurrected on the 3rd day..... and even after the 1o literally say Him alive, we have Thomas refuse to believe until he put his hands into His wounds.

I really can not emphasize it enough that God IS SIMPLY TOO BIG FOR US TO UNDERSTAND AND COMPREHEND. This does not mean we are not or can not be a believer, a follower, a worshipper, etc., of the Messiah, and be so much better human beings, but I do not believe anyone can fathom HIM.... 

Look forward to your thoughts, Charlie

Fritz, first I would like to thank you very much for your "reactions" to some of my responses........ I know that some / many / most of the talented folks within this forum will think that I am paying you to select these specific "reactions". To those of you who may have come to this conclusion, I would say "shame on you", there is nothing to that rumor!!!

Charlie

PS. Fritz, I am going to need your banking information...

[Your closest friendnt]

13 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your question... to me, it appears they had NO REAL UNDERSTANDING of what HE meant by this AND just about everything else He said. Here were 12 of His chosen people who lived and witnessed with Him for 3.5 years. They heard Him say the most remarkable things..... and anyone can misunderstand things and other things that will just go over their heads - the 12 would not have been immune to these normal human frailties. However, they all witnessed so many of His miracles from healing the sick, the blind, the leper, and of course the dead, YET, not one of them could comprehend this individual WAS GOD ON EARTH. This is because even though He came to earth as a "lowly / humble" individual, and despite all He did in front of them, GOD IS JUST TOO BIG FOR US TO TRULY COMPREHEND. 

They ran when He was taken by the Pharisees, they denied Him at His trial, they certainly did not believe or understand He would be resurrected on the 3rd day..... and even after the 1o literally say Him alive, we have Thomas refuse to believe until he put his hands into His wounds.

I really can not emphasize it enough that God IS SIMPLY TOO BIG FOR US TO UNDERSTAND AND COMPREHEND. This does not mean we are not or can not be a believer, a follower, a worshipper, etc., of the Messiah, and be so much better human beings, but I do not believe anyone can fathom HIM.... 

Look forward to your thoughts, Charlie

I often hear things about Jesus Christ when they speak about Jesus in such away that it seems that they are ignorant (when they are not) of something they know, which is that Jesus Christ was born from a woman.

Just like any one of us he had to go through the circle of growth in the womb any man goes through. 

Jesus was born with the unique anointing from God which was with him from his mother womb. 

Jesus had his own anointing and John the Baptist had his own.

Each one of them had to carry the burden of obedience to a different mission from God. 

Yet there is a big difference between the two.

Before Jesus was born we were told about him. In Genesis he is spoken of "as the seed of the woman". That he will be born from a woman without the "help" from a man.  

Growing up their parents teach them but also the anointing that was with them also teach them. 

The point in the making is that they were born and both of them had to learn from the beginning who were and what their mission was and their propose.

No man teach John the Baptist that he is that man in the book of Esaias or the Man described in the book of Isaiah, came to life from out of the pages of the book as John the Baptist. 

It is not exactly like that and at the same time it is.

But this man had to be born, he must have a mother to show that he was human that he had a beginning and that he had to go through the nine month term in his mother womb, going through the stages of development any human goes through. 

John the Baptist only existed in the pages of the book and the time came which was made known from the Angel who stand in the presence of God to be conceived from the seed of his Father. This time not with the inherited anointing that was on the seed of Aaron but with the new anointing which became evident when he was still in the womb when Elizabeth his mother met Mary pregnant with Jesus. 

He doesn't have a history of preexisting before his birth.

Repeating John the Baptist was the Son of Zacharias, he was the seed of man. He got his life from a man, yet it is not as simple and cut and dry as it sounds, "John was the seed of a man, as all of us are the seeds of a man, we all have a Father and a mother. 

John the Baptist was the seed of a special man in more than one way. Zacarias was not a Gentile seed, he was from the seed of Aaron "a descendant from the family of Aaron" who was the Patriarch of the High Priest of God to do the ministry in the Temple. 

Zacharias while he was minister in the most Holy place in the Temple he was given a special blessing from God outside the blessing of Aaron's Inheritance.

Zacharias by that time he was had pass the age of child bearing without giving Aaron a son.

The sign that Zacharias was the Last High Priest from the Aaronic Priesthood. The signaling, or the announcement of the end of the Aaronic Priesthood. 

John the Baptist was born after the blessing of Aaron had died in Zacharias his Father and he was born to a new life and anointing God put in Zacharias his Father while he was minister in the Temple.

Very similar to the anounsmen of the Angel to Mary.

Similar to the anounsmen of God to Abraham about Issac.

In all those situations God also announcement them by their names. 

Isaac, John, Jesus they all were born to God but there is a core difference with Jesus Christ. 

With Jesus is not the same. 

God gave life to both Abraham and Zacharias and their wives who all had pass the stage of child bearing to have a son from the new life God gave them and not from the life they had before. 

Still a distinction can be made between Abraham and Zaharias. 

Abraham special blessing was a one time thing it expired with Sarah upon the birth of Isaac. 

As he continued to have other children with other wives after the birth of Sarah.

In that Sarah's womb came to Life only to bear Isaac. Only for Issac. 

For Zaharias it was with his wife Elizabeth to have only John. 

Her womb like Sarah "closed" after that. 

Zacarias did not have another wife to have more children like Abraham who had other wives and only after Sarah died. 

We do not know if Sarah died before Zaharias and Zacharias did not remarried or that Zacharias died before Sarah died.  

The mission of their blessed seed Isaac and John was different, we may say with a caution the opposite, or let the facts day what words are not easy to explain. 

Isaac was the Patriarch of Jacob whom God chose to have for him and all his house a people for himself from the seed of Abraham to be their God and they to be his people. 

And John was the one to identify the one whom God had Chosen to have for himself children, the children with God's Life in them, the born from above from the seed that had the Life from the beginning, who came from above and that is Jesus Christ. 

God having children from the whole world, referring to the children of the Spiritual birth, to anyone from the whole world who believes in Jesus Christ after his death on the Cross, when Jesus Christ died on the Cross for the forgiveness of sins for the whole world. Having the forgiveness of sins which comes by DEFAULT with the Life of God in Jesus Christ. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

The only response to this is the one from Jesus, Himself when He responded to Caiaphas question if He was the Christ, the Son of God and Jesus answered, "I am". This of course tied directly back to Moses when He told him, "I AM who sent you", or "I AM THAT I AM".

Jesus had no beginning and no end... Charlie

Shalom, Charlie744.

I know it's hard to catch everything someone says on the forums, but above I did say the following to Frits:

And, in anticipation of your possible objection, when Yeshua` said, "Before Abraham was, I am," He WAS the "I AM" while He was still the Word "before Abraham was!" (Digest that for a moment.) He is NOT just an aggelos (a messenger) of God. He IS an Apostelos (an Apostle), a "SENT ONE" or "ONE WHO WAS SENT" on a mission. (Hebrews 3:1) He is the FULFILLMENT and SHALL be the FULFILLMENT of the Davidic Covenant!

I don't know if the following diagram will help or not. (It will probably get all messed up if the window size is too small; look for the timeline arrow heads. The word "ETERNITY" is at both ends. I'll try to get this into a graphic tonight):

E<-God the Father -------------------------------->E
T<-God the Word->|(became flesh called "Yeshua`."  ----->T
E.................................Anointed by God with His Spirit,...............E
R.................................hence called "Messiah" or in Greek, ........R
N................................."Christos" shortened to "Christ."............N
I..................................No longer technically "God," He ..............I
T................................ is now called the "SON of God."................T
Y.................................He is still aware of once being the Word...Y

Oh, yes. Automatic carriage returns don't help, either.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add a sentence

[Whyme]

Is the soul the inner man? The soul can be nourished and have joy and sorrow

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Whyme said:

Is the soul the inner man? The soul can be nourished and have joy and sorrow

Shalom, Whyme.

No, the "soul" is the OUTER man! The "soul" is the "nefesh" in Hebrew; it means an "air-breathing creature!" What part of you (to use your terminology) "breathes air?"

[Charlie744]

4 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 The man breathes to stay alive and the animals breathe to stay alive.

Is there a difference between man and a beast? 

I would say so! God breathed His Holy Spirit into Adam.... and it was lost and he lost his presence with God in the Garden. God did not breath anything into the animals, they die and that is it for them. They will have no need or purpose to be resurrected at the end of time for God to see if this one or that one had accepted Him as their Lord and brought His Holy Spirit into them while they were given the opportunity. 

God does not do anything without a perfect reason..... He purposely gave us His definition for how He created Adam and how differently He created everything else. 

My understanding is that this 6,000 year journey of ours is to restore this precious gift of His Holy Spirit back into us and once again, be with Him forever - full circle.

He created us with His Holy Spirit, we gave it up by sinning, He established a Plan to restore it, and are given an option - believe in Him or die the second death where there is no return. 

Just my thoughts, Charlie and I would welcome your (anyone's) comments / beliefs - pro or con.