The Great Tribulation is no purgatory for the church / Foolish virgins scream......(scary stuff)

[Uriah]

10 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Rev 7 shows great multitude who came out of tribulation by the rapture. 

And that called "great tribulation". It lasts up to the time Jesus returns. A post trib rapture.

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

P.S. Those Martyrs seen in Seal #5 and Rev. 20:4 are people who come to Christ after the Rapture. So, you see, BOTH Rev. 7:9-17 and the 5th Seal Saints and Rev. 20:4 Saints are explained this way, nothing else can explain BOTH scripture but the Pre Trib Rapture FOLLOWED by new converts AFTER the Rapture.

So these people must be raptured - resurrected to enter after they became believers after the rapture, which includes a resurrection.

Just how many raptures/resurrections are included in your scenario?

[Revelation Man]

30 minutes ago, Uriah said:

So these people must be raptured - resurrected to enter after they became believers after the rapture, which includes a resurrection.

Just how many raptures/resurrections are included in your scenario?

No, the ones Saved and who lay down their life for Jesus during the 70th week are the ONLY ONES who stay on earth and rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years, scriptures SIMPLY tell us this, aren't scriptures marvelous ? They tell us what we need to know, if we will only slow down and take them in.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Church Judging after reurning with Jesus on WHITTE HORSES), and judgment was given unto them(Know ye noot we will judge Angels): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

NOTICE: This is VERY SPECIFIC !! Only those who lived ON EARTH, and the time of the 70th week qualifies, AND only these specific ones who DIED REFUSING the Mark of the Beast live and reign on earth with Jesus for his 1000 year reign on this earth.

So, there is a Rapture of the Church, which leaves the Remnant Church (Rev. 12:17 can ONLY be the Church, it can not be Jews) on eaarth, or those who come to Christ after the Rapture, they don't need to be "RAPTURED" Jesus and the Xhurch are coming back to earth, they will be Resurrected, and there are ONLY 2 Resurrections as 5 verse explains. 

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.(THIS Points to all those resurrected in Christ Jesus, tat counts the Raptured Church, both ALIVE and the DEAD in the Grave before the 70th week. And it counts those Saints resurrected after the 2nd Coming, but its ALL the First Resurrection of those in Christ, you/me see things as linear always, God sees 1 and 2. Those in Christ AND the Jewish Saints of old like Daniel who are also in Christ because BY FAITH they believed in the PROMISE, not the Law per se. The Church is taken to Heaven and we then Marry the Lamb. God already Married Israel, there were TWO BRIDES, Rachel the Preferred and Leah. 

The 2nd Resurrection will be the Wicked Dead raised to be burned in 1000 years. These are FACTS. 

[Uriah]

56 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

NOTICE: This is VERY SPECIFIC !!

Looks like you will not say how many resurrections/raptures are required for this scenario.

[Diaste]

36 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

No, the ones Saved and who lay down their life for Jesus during the 70th week are the ONLY ONES who stay on earth and rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years, scriptures SIMPLY tell us this, aren't scriptures marvelous ? They tell us what we need to know, if we will only slow down and take them in.

Hmm...I don't see any of the 'rapture' passages that talk about the 'raptured saints' going to heaven.

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothedf with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

It's possible to infer this is tantamount to going to heaven for 7 years, but I don't see indirect evidence constituting such an implication in this passage or the surrounding verses.

"By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord." 

This doesn't have any implication of heaven as a destination either.

"For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

The contrast here is between wrath and salvation. Paul isn't contrasting wrath and residence in heaven.  As in, you don't suffer wrath but rather plays harps in glory. No, Paul is saying you are saved and don't suffer eternal torment, which can be any time.

This is a contrast of life and death, not a contrast of abduction or remaining on earth.

 

36 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Church Judging after reurning with Jesus on WHITTE HORSES), and judgment was given unto them(Know ye noot we will judge Angels): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

NOTICE: This is VERY SPECIFIC !! Only those who lived ON EARTH, and the time of the 70th week qualifies, AND only these specific ones who DIED REFUSING the Mark of the Beast live and reign on earth with Jesus for his 1000 year reign on this earth.

Interesting. That is exactly what the scripture says. Huh....

36 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

So, there is a Rapture of the Church, which leaves the Remnant Church (Rev. 12:17 can ONLY be the Church, it can not be Jews) on eaarth, or those who come to Christ after the Rapture, they don't need to be "RAPTURED" Jesus and the Xhurch are coming back to earth, they will be Resurrected, and there are ONLY 2 Resurrections as 5 verse explains. 

No. At the 'pretrib rapture' the dead in Christ are resurrected before the living are taken. That's one resurrection. Above you explain there is another resurrection of the 'remnant church'. That leaves the resurrection of the dead 1000 years later. That's three resurrections. 

36 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.(THIS Points to all those resurrected in Christ Jesus, tat counts the Raptured Church, both ALIVE and the DEAD in the Grave before the 70th week. And it counts those Saints resurrected after the 2nd Coming, but its ALL the First Resurrection of those in Christ, you/me see things as linear always, God sees 1 and 2. Those in Christ AND the Jewish Saints of old like Daniel who are also in Christ because BY FAITH they believed in the PROMISE, not the Law per se. The Church is taken to Heaven and we then Marry the Lamb. God already Married Israel, there were TWO BRIDES, Rachel the Preferred and Leah. 

Two resurrections separated by 7 years, then another 1000 years after that. That's 3 resurrections...in your own words.

36 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The 2nd Resurrection will be the Wicked Dead raised to be burned in 1000 years. These are FACTS. 

Facts which you do not seem to understand.

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

Looks like you will not say how many resurrections/raptures are required for this scenario.

Its SELF EXPAINATORY. There is ONE RAPTURE and 2 Resurrections, cant you read?

The points I made showed your QUESTION to be an INVALID QUESTION. Those who get saved AFTER the Rapture need not be Raptured to Heaven because they REMAIN ON EARTH with Jesus for 1000 years, did you not get that point? It was OBVIOUS. 

In Rev. 20:5 we are told there are TWO RESURRECTIONS, those of the Living(In Christ), and those of the Dead(who rejected Christ).

You IMAGINE there needs to be TWO RAPTURES, I showed you why you are in error, those who come to Christ during the 70th week ALL REMAIN on  Earth with Jesus for 1000  years, so why do they need to be Raptured to Heaven? 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Uriah]

13 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Its SELF EXPAINATORY. There is ONE RAPTURE and 2 Resurrections, cant you read?

The points I made showed your QUESTION to be an INVALID QUESTION. Those who get saved AFTER the Rapture need not be Raptured to Heaven because they REMAIN ON EARTH with Jesus for 1000 years, did you not get that point? It was OBVIOUS. 

In Rev. 20:5 we are told there are TWO RESURRECTIONS, those of the Living, and those of the Dead.

Now you have LIVING people being resurrected?

You IMAGINE there needs to be TWO RAPTURES, I showed you why you are in error, those who come to Christ during the 70th week ALL REMAIN on  Earth with Jesus for 1000  years, so why do they need to be Raptured to Heaven? 

 

The two resurrections are 1,000 yrs apart.

Also those who "came out" of the great tribulation do just that, they do not somehow live remain on earth for 1,000 yrs.

If those in the great tribulation do not receive a rapture that is clearly promised to believers in the Gospel...it is another gospel. 

Please reconsider.

[Revelation Man]

On 12/19/2020 at 6:56 AM, Diaste said:

Hmm...I don't see any of the 'rapture' passages that talk about the 'raptured saints' going to heaven.

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothedf with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

It's possible to infer this is tantamount to going to heaven for 7 years, but I don't see indirect evidence constituting such an implication in this passage or the surrounding verses.

If you know 2 + 2 = 4 does one have to spell that out every time someone says 2 plus 2 ? I mean, do you really need someone to say, HOLD UP, that = 4 !!

The math ONLY ADDS UP if there is a Pre Trib Rapture, we don't need it told unto us, we should be able to add up 2 + 2 ourselves. Especially when Paul basically says thus, I TELL YOU A MYSTERY (Secret), meaning Jesus/God never adds 2 + 2 up for you, you have to do it yourselves. Only Paul adds it up a few times. So, the book of Revelation doesn't, the Gospels don't, the Old Testament doesn't, but alas, I can ADD 2 +2 myself. I understand that if the Church comes back with Jesus while the Beast is still on earth that mandates a Pre Trib Rapture, especially when we see the Church IN HEAVEN in Rev. 5:9 BEFORE the Seals are opened. Especially since we are described over and over by Jesus as a Bride, and Judean Brides always spent 7 days in the Bridal Chambers, AND it was always in the fathers house.

We were promised we will never see the Wrath of God, I mean really, really, really.........2 +2 = 4. 

On 12/19/2020 at 6:56 AM, Diaste said:

"By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord." 

This doesn't have any implication of heaven as a destination either.

Of course it does, read Rev. 14:14, we ae Harvested by Jesus from a Cloud. Not on the earth, he Harvests the 144,000(5 Million Jews AND the Wicked Tares) on earth in Rev. 14, but the Church, in a FLASHBACK SCENE, is Harvested from upon a Cloud Rev. 5:9 tells us the Church is in Heaven  BEFORE the Seals are opened, SECRETLY, you have to know this Brother. 

On 12/19/2020 at 6:56 AM, Diaste said:

"For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

The contrast here is between wrath and salvation. Paul isn't contrasting wrath and residence in heaven.  As in, you don't suffer wrath but rather plays harps in glory. No, Paul is saying you are saved and don't suffer eternal torment, which can be any time.

This is a contrast of life and death, not a contrast of abduction or remaining on earth.

We come back from Heaven on White Horses, while the Beast is still in power. That can only mean one thing, 2 + 2 = 4.

On 12/19/2020 at 6:56 AM, Diaste said:

Interesting. That is exactly what the scripture says. Huh....

Quote

El correcto

On 12/19/2020 at 6:56 AM, Diaste said:

No. At the 'pretrib rapture' the dead in Christ are resurrected before the living are taken. That's one resurrection. Above you explain there is another resurrection of the 'remnant church'. That leaves the resurrection of the dead 1000 years later. That's three resurrections. 

Quote

 

No, YOU see it as TWO resurrections, God is equating them in like manner. Two halves of football, not four quarters. You can insist, but there are four quarters, but God is simply identifying two halves. 

Its the same thing here, God is speaking about TWO THINGS, the Resurrection of those in Christ AND the Resurrection of those who rejected Jesus' free Salvation. God does not care about TIME, that is you mandating the TIME changes the number, it doesn't, because God is identifying TWO THINGS, those IN Christ and those NOT IN Christ. 

Those in Christ and those living, for all intense purposes are raised at the exact same time, the Dead are Raised and then in a TWINKLE of an Eye we are CHANGED from flesh men, to Spirit men, because we shed our bodies, WE DIE. Then we go to be with the Lord, and thus we will always be in the Presence of God via is Spirit ALWAYS DWELLING in us. We will not be up under Jesus 24/7Infinity. 

 

On 12/19/2020 at 6:56 AM, Diaste said:

Two resurrections separated by 7 years, then another 1000 years after that. That's 3 resurrections...in your own words.

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Those IN Christ and those NOT IN Christ, God doesn't care how WE THINK, He looks at these as Two Resurrections. Those of Jesus AND those not of Jesus. Simple math.

On 12/19/2020 at 6:56 AM, Diaste said:

Facts which you do not seem to understand.

Facts that you seem to not be able to interpret because you are too caught up in your own understandings brother. Try the simple way, Occam's razor.  

Edited December 21, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

The two resurrections are 1,000 yrs apart.

Also those who "came out" of the great tribulation do just that, they do not somehow live remain on earth for 1,000 yrs.

If those in the great tribulation do not receive a rapture that is clearly promised to believers in the Gospel...it is another gospel. 

Please reconsider.

The 5 Virgins will be SHUT OUT of the Wedding, come on man. 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/19/2020 at 7:28 AM, Uriah said:

The two resurrections are 1,000 yrs apart.

Also those who "came out" of the great tribulation do just that, they do not somehow live remain on earth for 1,000 yrs.

If those in the great tribulation do not receive a rapture that is clearly promised to believers in the Gospel...it is another gospel. 

Please reconsider.

Those who COME OUT............................CAME OUT at the Pre 70th Week Rapture. They are of the 2000 some odd year Church Age Tribulation (Jesus....................Ye will have continual TRIBULATION on this earth). Thus the Church Age Period of Tribulation is LONGER IN LENGTH, than the 70th week Tribulation, thus those who CAME OUT were of the 2000 year Church Age as in 2000>7.

Reading the texts of Revelation PROVES 100 Percent that no one from the 70th week is taken to heaven, EVER after the Rapture, during the 70th week. Jesus says in the 5th Seal, you MUST WAIT, until all your brothers have been killed in LIKE MANNER when asked when their vengeance will be, and thus they must wait for the Beasts 42 month reign of terror to end.

ALSO: Rev. 20:4 tells us those who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast and were Martyred are only judged AFTER Jesus' return. Thus those that CAME OUT can not have COME OUT of the 70th week. Thus it is another 2 + 2 = 4 answer, one just has to add all the facts up. Those are the pre 70th week RAPTURED Saints who came out of the Church Age Tribulation, and WE KNOW Millions of Christians have died during this 2000 some odd year Church Age, in order to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Amen, Glory to God in the highest. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Revelation Man