Does water baptism precede regeneration?

[Frits]

On 2/4/2021 at 7:00 PM, Peterlag said:

Give me 1 verse. Just 1 where an Apostle baptized with water. I will wait.

Hello bro Peter,

I have a scripture for you that the disciples of the Lord Jesus baptize.  What now...?

Joh 4:2 KJV
Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

 

[Riverwalker]

5 hours ago, Waggles said:

What nonsense is this?? 

They were baptised in the Holy Spirit and then they were baptised in water. 

It is not a matter of one before the other but of faithfulness in believing both are required. 

I received the baptism of the Holy spirit and spoke in tongues some thirty days after my water baptism. For others it was the other way around. 

But in the end I was born again of water and spirit. 

Being born of water means physical birth.  The mothers' water breaks and the baby comes. You are only born again once

 

[Waggles]

Just now, Riverwalker said:

Being born of water means physical birth.  The mothers' water breaks and the baby comes.

Really??  No that is complete gobbledegook. 

Jesus is not stating to Nicodemus, who had just asked “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” that you must be born once and be alive to then be born of spirit ... 

John 3:5  Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus is informing Nicodemus of heavenly things here not stating that only a person born alive then can be filled with the Holy Spirit. People having been born and living is an obvious prerequisite to believing the gospel. Jesus is not talking natural birth but a new birth - death, burial and resurrection of a convert and then being imbued with the power of God to walk in newness of life. 

Plus water baptism is scriptural with numerous verses attesting to the spiritual significance of water baptism in the NT.

Acts 10:45  And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 
10:46  For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 
10:47  “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 
10:48  And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. 

[Waggles]

13 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

You are only born again once

That is correct - by water and the Holy Spirit - one baptism because they go together and it is the one way of doing things in obedience to Christ Jesus.

[Regenerated-Adult]

2 hours ago, Waggles said:

That is correct - by water and the Holy Spirit - one baptism because they go together and it is the one way of doing things in obedience to Christ Jesus.

I think you seem to be missing the point.  Water baptism as obedience to Christ is not a prerequisite for being saved.  If you are saved and you somehow don't get water baptised you will still go to heaven.  It's got nothing to do with works or losing salvation.

[JohnD]

Matthew 3:11 (NASB95)
11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John the water baptist contrasted water baptism with Spirit Baptism by the Savior.

He did not equate the two.

[Riverwalker]

6 hours ago, Waggles said:

Really??  No that is complete gobbledegook. 

Jesus is not stating to Nicodemus, who had just asked “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” that you must be born once and be alive to then be born of spirit ... 

 

Jesus is dealing with two kinds of birth here, and Nicodemus only being familiar with the first kind of birth, Jesus delineates the kinds of birth as water a Spirit. Obviously referencing  his comment  about climbing back into the mother and the physical birth as the first birth, by water. Not being born of the baptism

The only reference Nicodemus had for water baptism was repentance (John's baptism)

Like wise there are two deaths physical and spiritual.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Sower]

On 2/4/2021 at 6:34 AM, exrockstar said:

I wasn't following this topic because it comes up every now and then. Jump to page 9-10 and "yada yada...works...yada yada." Jump to page 1, read this, and nothing more needs to be said. 

Sorry rockstar, "yada yada...works...yada yada" doesn't work for me.
I don't have the gift of interpretations.........

[Sower]

12 hours ago, Frits said:

On 2/1/2021 at 12:26 PM, Sower said:

Ah...the poor thief...

The thief was saved by his belief that the Lord Jesus is God and thus had the power to save him.
 Hanging on a cross, the thief had an acceptable excuse not to be baptized in water.  Do we have such a good excuse?

[Beppybuva]

There is a huge church called the church of Christ. They are growing rapidly. They call themselves non-denominational. They told me I don’t have the Holy Spirit because I wasn’t water baptized.