Does water baptism precede regeneration?

[Waggles]

4 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

You still have not be able to provide the verses speaking about water baptism... 

Where does Jesus tell us or “command” BOTH water and Holy Spirit baptism? 

Well if you cannot read scripture for yourself in humility of obedience then I guess you will walk in the gospel of your choosing.

Each to their own. 

 

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, Waggles said:

Well if you cannot read scripture for yourself in humility of obedience then I guess you will walk in the gospel of your choosing.

Each to their own. 

 

Very nice! I think you proved enough!

[Guest clancy]

On 2/1/2021 at 4:57 PM, Regenerated-Adult said:

A born again person is a person that has been saved, redeemed, regenerated, made a new creation, and so on and so forth.  And this is a result of having a genuine experience of God, in Christian terminology it is to be baptised by the Holy Spirit.  This action of God's grace on persons is completely independent from water baptism.  Water baptism is not salvation, and the Bible doesn't anywhere say that it is.  If baptism is more multi tiered to include further acts of grace such as an "infilling" or being "filled", the Bible does not indicate this except in different interpretations of the same words used therein.  But according to some theological interpretations, the case is made that salvation without water baptism is ineffective, and hence it is possible to lose salvation.  The Bible, if it is inerrant and the words of God literally, doesn't allow for any confusion on this point anywhere, since salvation is by the HOLY SPIRIT and independent of WATER BAPTISM, though the latter ritual surely can help a person gain some virtues and not to lose their salvation.  If Jesus could lose any of the humans the Father gave unto Him, to whom they were drawn and given to the Son, then God is not God because God failed to do something He wanted to do but couldn't.

You can’t lose salvation, if it was given by God, Jesus can’t lose not one of his followers, if the Father gave them to Him.....

[Regenerated-Adult]

45 minutes ago, clancy said:

You can’t lose salvation, if it was given by God, Jesus can’t lose not one of his followers, if the Father gave them to Him.....

That is my reading of the Bible too.  However, it's possible I glossed over some passages that could indicate loss of salvation.  I don't think Hebrews 10 or 6 is talking about the loss of salvation though.

[Billiards Ball]

On 2/1/2021 at 11:57 AM, Regenerated-Adult said:

A born again person is a person that has been saved, redeemed, regenerated, made a new creation, and so on and so forth.  And this is a result of having a genuine experience of God, in Christian terminology it is to be baptised by the Holy Spirit.  This action of God's grace on persons is completely independent from water baptism.  Water baptism is not salvation, and the Bible doesn't anywhere say that it is.  If baptism is more multi tiered to include further acts of grace such as an "infilling" or being "filled", the Bible does not indicate this except in different interpretations of the same words used therein.  But according to some theological interpretations, the case is made that salvation without water baptism is ineffective, and hence it is possible to lose salvation.  The Bible, if it is inerrant and the words of God literally, doesn't allow for any confusion on this point anywhere, since salvation is by the HOLY SPIRIT and independent of WATER BAPTISM, though the latter ritual surely can help a person gain some virtues and not to lose their salvation.  If Jesus could lose any of the humans the Father gave unto Him, to whom they were drawn and given to the Son, then God is not God because God failed to do something He wanted to do but couldn't.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, I'm tired of water baptism CULTS. Splashing about in a river where my neighbor has recently urinated does NOT do anything--obedience to the command to be baptized is what bears fruit.

[Arrabon]

1 hour ago, clancy said:

result of having a genuine experience of God, in Christian terminology it is to be baptized by the Holy Spirit.

@clancy I was baptized by my pastor .

[Starise]

17 hours ago, Peterlag said:

Has nothing to do with the Christian. Christ had not yet risen out from among the dead in the gospels you are reading from.

Please show me the scripture that says Christ's resurrection nullifies Baptism? Yes Christ died and was raised again the 3rd day and I think this is what baptism is SYMBOLIC of for us as believers. The death of the old man, the burial of our physical bodies and our resurrection to new life. 

Jesus didn't tell His disciples to only baptize until He was raised from the dead. Do you think He would have missed that little detail? Just sayin'

15 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Well, I guess we will simply agree to disagree.

 I will say one final thing: Jesus did NOT say we are to be baptized in water- He did say we MUST be baptized in the Holy Spirit... I am going to go with Him on this !  Man can adopt all the “solemn ceremonies” it wants to or feels a need to for their salvation... it is just pagan works!

Oh... why on God’s green earth would your water baptism be considered a “solemn religious ceremony”? 

Solemn?

Religious?

Ceremony?

These 3 speak volumes... Charlie 

Charlie it seems you either were RC or have been influenced by them and have a bad taste in you mouth understandably so. I think if in the RCC environment it is probably more difficult to see the difference between  mans ordinances and actual church ordinances. The RCC has many. 

There really have only been two church ordinances passed down through the ages. The Lord's table and Baptism. Both have been corrupted by various false teaching over time. A few churches still practice those two according to the Bible. The RCC really gets the Lord's table wrong as to what it actually means. Baptism has been all misconstrued as well in adding infant baptism. This isn't only the RCC but other churches as well. Maybe the Episcopalians who some refer to as lazy Catholics  .

So I'm attempting (maybe unsuccessfully) to get you to see the difference between the real ordinances and the fake ones, and that some ordinances have been corrupted. You can find scriptural support for both Baptism and the Lord's table in the Bible.

Even though some scriptures seem to tie baptism into becoming a real believer with said scriptures posted by others all above, I see it as a step of obedience to God.

If God convicts you that you should seek someone to baptize you, then I would do it. It's an act of obedience according to scripture. If God IS NOT convicting you to do it, then don't. God wants Christians who WANT to follow what He says. Only you can determine if you think God wants you to be baptized. I knew it right away and I was baptized, though I will admit I had it done twice because I questioned my sincerity the 1st time.

I'll put forth the same ideas on baptism as I have put forth to "you can loose your salvation"people that they simply can't get around, and the funny thing is people who are staunch adherents to Baptism to be saved will often be against the other ideas.

"If" a person made a confession of faith and was saved, then scheduled their baptism a week out. This person then dies before they can be baptized the next week. What happens to them then?

Same can be said for a person who is a "good person" yet they sin a little bit. They are preparing to confess but they die before that happens. Are they lost?

Both of these things depend on the person. God does not depend on anything but your willingness to be saved. MOST Christians will have an interest in baptism after their salvation. It's one of the very first steps of obedience.

[Guest clancy]

1 hour ago, Arrabon said:

@clancy I was baptized by my pastor .

I too was baptised by my pastor.

[Arrabon]

The opinions here are pretty diversified. I have a pretty clear idea of how this works for me, so let me share my thought to all of you in love and kindness, hoping I will receive the same in return.

Throughout the bible the topic of "ONE" is a pretty large subject, but has to do with the idea of "NON-OTHERS. Something singular!

In Ephesians 4:4-6, scripture says, (4) "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling: (5) One Lord, one faith, ONE  BAPTISM, (6) one God and Father of all.

In John 14:6, " Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the Life. No one (Different context meaning) comes to the Father but through ME- Jesus is the ONLY ONE.

"Heis" is the koine Greek word for ONE, and means to the exclusion of all others - NON-OTHER.

CONTRADICTIONS AND CONFUSION ABOUT BAPTISM.

Is Cor. 14:33 says, "For God is not a God of confusion, but of peace ("eirenes") or  unity, harmony, and absence of confusion (In this context).

No matter what anyone tells you, there are no contradictions or confusing statements made by God in the bible.

Only confusion by man from not studying out thoroughly enough what God meant.

We have being discussed, 2 baptisms. Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and water immersion baptism.

Only ONE is effective for salvation, and both are in unity and harmony with not only each other, but the rest of scripture - NO CONTRADICTIONS!!!

So, we have to make them work in our own minds TOGETHER, without twisting anything to get a meaning that is to JUSTIFY anyone's opinion.

And remember, you can't have one baptism being followed by another, because God says one baptism. ONLY ONE!!

Can anyone do that using just scripture??

[Regenerated-Adult]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

No. 

Eggzactly.