Does water baptism precede regeneration?

[Waggles]

58 minutes ago, Starise said:

Not trying to be funny here Waggles, but from what I'm reading you are saying this is a "present tense" kind of thing that all happens at once.

So if I'm lost and decide to get saved, there had better be a sink, bathtub or swimming pool nearby? Quick Elma...we gotta get wet!!!!!!

What I THINK I hear you saying is they should work together. SHOULD isn't always ideal. The main thing is we accept Christ correct?

NO 

a person needs to hear the gospel of salvation preached to them directly from the scriptures.

If they are moved to repent from life and submit to the gospel; then when they are water baptised they confess this new faith (Romans 10:9-10).

I do not know what others do, but in The Revival Fellowship when a person is being water baptised we ask them to confess their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and in His death and resurrection for them. If and when they reply "yes" then they go under and come up, and people will lay hands on them and pray along with this person for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

When a convert speaks in tongues then they have been filled with the Holy Spirit. This may happen at the same time of their water baptism, but many also receive the Spirit of God later when quietly praying for this privately.

Sometimes people receive the Holy Spirit first (with the Bible evidence of praying in tongues) and then undergo water baptism. 

Water and Spirit - the two go together (but not necessarily at the same time). I received the indwelling Holy Spirit some 30 days after my water baptism. 

2Tim 1:6  For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, 
7  for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Waggles

[Charlie744]

4 minutes ago, Waggles said:

NO 

a person needs to hear the gospel of salvation preached to them directly from the scriptures.

I would kindly ask where this is found in the Scriptures,

Also, would you mind commenting on the following: Do you think water baptism is a "type and shadow" of the baptism of the Holy Spirit?  If not, please provide your thoughts if you will.

4 minutes ago, Waggles said:

If they are moved to repent from life and submit to the gospel; then when they are water baptised they confess this new faith (Romans 10:9-10).

I do not know what others do, but in The Revival Fellowship when a person is being water baptised we ask them to confess their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and in His death and resurrection for them. If and when they reply "yes" then they go under and come up, and people will lay hands on them and pray along with this person for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

When a convert speaks in tongues then they have been filled with the Holy Spirit. This may happen at the same time of their water baptism, but many also receive the Spirit of God later when quietly praying for this privately.

Now this is or WOULD open up another can of worms if you will..... yes, there are some - more than some who believe in speaking in tongues, but I guess this is for another time....but what if they do not speak in tongues? Are they not filled with the Holy Spirit?

4 minutes ago, Waggles said:

Sometimes people receive the Holy spirit first (with the Bible evidence of praying in tongues) and then undergo water baptism. 

Water and Spirit - the two go together (but not necessarily at the same time). I received the indwelling Holy spirit some 30 days after my water baptism. 

2Tim 1:6  For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, 
7  for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control. 

Best wishes, Charlie

[Justin Adams]

3 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Are they not filled with the Holy Spirit?

Let's go fishing. Plenty of worms now.

The early church, from some writings discovered, did the renouncing of evil during their baptism. It seemed to be more of a poke in the eye of the fallen host and a definitive advertising that, 'hey dudes, one less for you and one more for Yeshua'.

[Waggles]

6 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I would kindly ask where this is found in the Scriptures,

Romans 10:14  How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 
15  And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 

Mark 16:15  And he [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

7 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Do you think water baptism is a "type and shadow" of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? 

No - water baptism is water baptism, and a fundamental necessary act in believing the gospel and the work of Jesus Christ as God and Saviour.

10 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

but what if they do not speak in tongues? Are they not filled with the Holy Spirit?

NO - speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is the Bible evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit. 

In The Revival Fellowship everybody is water baptised and all speak in tongues (as distinct from those who also operate the voice gift of diversity of tongues at a worship meeting). 

[Arrabon]

 

•  

 

The opinions here are pretty diverse. I have a pretty clear idea of how this works for me, so let me share my thought to all of you in love and kindness, hoping I will receive the same in return.

Throughout the bible the topic of "ONE" is a pretty large subject, but has to do with the idea of "NON-OTHERS. Something singular!

In Ephesians 4:4-6, scripture says, (4) "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling: (5) One Lord, one faith, ONE  BAPTISM, (6) one God and Father of all.

In John 14:6, " Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the Life. No one (Different context meaning) comes to the Father but through ME- Jesus is the ONLY ONE.

"Heis" is the koine Greek word for ONE, and means to the exclusion of all others - NON-OTHER.

CONTRADICTIONS AND CONFUSION ABOUT BAPTISM.

Is Cor. 14:33 says, "For God is not a God of confusion, but of peace ("eirenes") or  unity, harmony, and absence of confusion (In this context).

No matter what anyone tells you, there are no contradictions or confusing statements made by God in the bible.

Only confusion by man from not studying out thoroughly enough what God meant.

We have being discussed, 2 baptisms. Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and water immersion baptism.

Only ONE is effective for salvation, and both are in unity and harmony with not only each other, but the rest of scripture - NO CONTRADICTIONS!!!

So, we have to make them work in our own minds TOGETHER, without twisting anything to get a meaning that is to JUSTIFY anyone's opinion.

And remember, you can't have one baptism being followed by another, because God says one baptism. ONLY ONE!!

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Arrabon

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Waggles said:

Romans 10:14  How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 
15  And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 

Mark 16:15  And he [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

No - water baptism is water baptism, and a fundamental necessary act in believing the gospel and the work of Jesus Christ as God and Saviour.

NO - speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is the Bible evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit. 

In The Revival Fellowship everybody is water baptised and all speak in tongues (as distinct from those who also operate the voice gift of diversity of tongues at a worship meeting). 

Thank you very much for your responses! I believe I have a decent understanding of your believes (limited topics) and how sincere you are..... Certainly worthy!

Here is what I believe, if it is of any value at all - (and this is simplifying everything but this is also what Jesus stated before He returned to HIS Father): Believe in ME (Jesus) and obey my commandments.  

These two commands of HIM will get us to spend eternity with HIM.... if we (all of us) have different interpretations of baptism, ceremonies, tongues, or our individual interpretations within Daniel or Revelation, they will NOT prevent us from being with HIM - He knows how difficult HIS Word is and a perfect understanding of HIS Words or misinterpretations will not be a closed door to us. 

If we do not believe in our Messiah, Jesus and we do not obey His commandments, now these will be a deadbolt to the door of salvation. 

Once again, it is nice to learn of the interpretations of others from around the globe - thanks for sharing, Charlie

 

[Peterlag]

8 hours ago, Starise said:

Agreed, however Baptism is not a theory it is an established new testament church ordinance according to the Bible. Baptism is NOT a human conception. It is NOT a doctrine of works. Baptism is simply a symbolic act of obedience.

These are two separate things and should be seen as such. Circumcision was NOT a New Testament teaching.

Once again this is an unfair and illogical comparison. To say we no longer do A or B because we don't do A doesn't disqualify B. Not to mention there isn't a direct correlation to OT cleansing as it was seen in the NT. Two different things here that you are attempting to merge that frankly don't fit.

Not true. It had to do with our freedom from sin through the blood of Christ. So no, it isn't clear in this way.Sorry. Please show me the scripture where John was under any covenant at all.

You have no proof of this. No proof at all.

Where do these references directly say there is " no more need for it"???? They don't.

So the millions who have been baptized since then, up until now, I might add, you've conveniently forgotten?

Water baptism is not taught or practiced after Acts chapter 2. No apostle baptized anyone with water. We are baptized in Christ at the time of our new birth.

[Peterlag]

8 hours ago, Waggles said:

How wrong can a man be?

Water baptism is not taught or practiced after Acts chapter 2. No apostle baptized anyone with water. We are baptized in Christ at the time of our new birth.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Peterlag said:

Water baptism is not taught or practiced after Acts chapter 2. No apostle baptized anyone with water. We are baptized in Christ at the time of our new birth.

Sure it is taught after Acts 2.  Read Acts 8; 9; 10; 11; 16; 18; 19 and 22.  Sure the Apostles baptized people.  Paul even admits to doing so personally.  Read 1 Corinthians 1

[Waggles]

7 hours ago, Peterlag said:

Water baptism is not taught or practiced after Acts chapter 2. No apostle baptized anyone with water. We are baptized in Christ at the time of our new birth.

WHAT !!?? 

You must have pages missing from your NT.