Seven Year Tribulation?

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Yes.

According to Lk 21:24, control of the city of Jerusalem is all that is required to end the times of the gentiles.

That happened in 1967.

Huh...must have missed it. What did the end of the times of the gentiles look like?

[Brother Duke]

45 minutes ago, SONshine said:

The above scriptures is the sounding of the 5th Trump.

And now comes the 6th trump:

Rev. 9:13 
And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

Now here's the command to the sixth angel from the One who has all Power:

[14] Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.  (Woe #2)

[15] And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

OK, they are let loose. That'll certainly cause Woe Two!

The hour, day, month and year given here is not a duration of time but rather a fixed period of time—the time and date they are appointed, prepared, to be let loose, which only God knows.

And they "slay" a third part of men. Now we already know that this huge locust army that’s comprised of fallen angels cannot shed blood or kill anybody, so always remember to think second death, spiritual death—the death of your soul.

Why can they not kill anybody?  

[abcdef]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Do you think it's a full 3.5 years? 

I don't see 'tribulation' in Rev except for 'tribulation 10 days' in the letters to the churches. 

I see great tribulation in Matt 24.

Is it possible it's even shorter than 3.5 years?

The word "tribulation" is only a TRANSLATION of the word "trouble".

But every time it is TRANSLATED into the word "tribulation", people think that it automatically is talking about a special time period of seven years, but there is not some special meaning to the translation, it is just the word trouble that is translated that way. (old English)

================

The reason that you can't get the numbers to fit together is that the 7 times are not literal years.

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Months and days are used in Rev 11 & 12, but only to show that the texts are speaking about a time period of equal length. (70 AD until 1967)

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The 7 times are the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2. From the captivity in Babylon  until Jerusalem is restored to the people of Israel.

It is divided into 2 parts of 3 1/2 each. But the 2 parts are not equal in length of time.

The first 3 1/2 is from Babylon until 70 AD when the great scattering happens, Dan 12:7.

The second 3 1/2 is much longer, from 70 AD until Jerusalem is restored to the people of Israel. (1967)

The  Revelation is centered on the second 3 1/2 times, from 70 AD until 1967.

The 2 witnesses and the good woman in the wilderness were the both the second 3 1/2 times period (70 AD-1967), in order for it to be established that they are, it can be seen by the days and months being of the same length.

[not an echo]

23 hours ago, Diaste said:

Is it really 7 years?

I don't see it.

Hello Diaste,

Similar to what is widely understood, when I think of what is often referred to as the Seven Year Tribulation Period, my mind goes immediately to Daniel's "Seventy Weeks" prophecy (Dan. 9:24-27) and its last, or 70th Week (vs. 27).  As I see it, there are very interesting and scriptural evidences that this will be a period of seven years (or, a "week" of years), with an event taking place "in the midst of the week" (vs. 27), which essentially divides the week into two 3-1/2 year periods.

[abcdef]

4 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Huh...must have missed it. What did the end of the times of the gentiles look like?

It looked like 1967 when the people of Israel took military control of Jerusalem.

Lk 21:24, shows that the times of the gentiles ends when the trampling of the gentiles is completed.

The complete "times of the gentiles" is shown in the statue of Dan. 2. From Babylon until Jerusalem is restored. Jesus was talking about the second part of the statue, the "troubles and tribulations" of 70 AD until 1967.

 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

It is always nice when you have the time to respond... hope everything is yay work and they are not overworking you too much.

This “gap” theory is / was critical for the “futuristic counter concept” to work! Prior to the 1500,s the wildly accepted belief was the little horn was the papacy. Luther and the Reformation presented a very serious threat to the RCC, and this “label” was a significant issue for them to refute. 

Consequently, they had to ensure that Christians would learn / be instructed that they could not possibly be the “little horn” since this character will come sometime in the future... since the RCC and the papacy were in existence for some 1000 years at the time of the Reformation, they argued it could not be the papacy. 

So, they re-interpreted certain verses in Daniel 9 WHICH ARE CLEARLY AN IMPORTANT PROPHECY OF THE MESSIAH (my opinion), they would now tell a completely different story. This gross misinterpretation needed to be flung into the future and therefore they insisted the last week in Daniel’s 70 weeks has yet to happen, AND they insisted the “he” in Daniel 9:24 was this mythical AC figure rather than point and speak of the coming Messiah. And here we are today where almost everyone accepts their successful gross new interpretation of Daniel. 

Daniel 9 is about the Messiah... everything in 9 was given to Daniel to prophecize about the coming Messiah, HIS death and being “cut off” in the “midst of the week”... 

Look at the language in 9... it is all about HIS mission and what HE will complete and accomplish WITHIN this last week of Daniel... God isn’t giving “ink” to Satan - the most important event in the history of the world will soon take place and God is having Daniel reveal to us what will happen.. yet we have allowed the “little horn” to re-direct HIS Scripture away from the most important prophecies in the Bible... go figure!

Charlie

 

My issue with that is Jesus tells us to look to Daniel for the understanding of the A of D. The A of D appears in Daniel 9 and therefore cannot be of the Messiah. Jesus is not placing the A of D in the holy place where it ought not stand. 

[abcdef]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Hey,

I agree the RCC and the papacy are working against the gospel and even subverting the deity and position of Christ and His provision for our salvation. 

I also struggle a bit with 'the gap'. It seemed to make no sense when I first heard it.

That is because there is no gap.

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There is no gap in the 70 weeks. The 70th week began when Jesus started His ministry. The covenant was confirmed for 7 years until Israel rejected the Pentecost kingdom covenant and the gentiles were grafted in. Then the 70 weeks ended.

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There is no gap in the prophecies about 70 AD through our present time. It is the second part of the 3 1/2 times.

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

It was taught as part of the overall pretrib doctrine I learned early on then rejected a bit later. I not so jaded by lies that I reject the truth contained within the overall lie, however. They got a lot right and one can see the years of study that went into the end result. 

How is there a gap? I don't know. Why is there a gap? I don't know. If we take the many prophecies and merge the truth and the facts there must be a gap.

Paraphrasing Doyle, "If all other possibilities are eliminated then whatever remains is the solution no matter how fantastic it seems."

Is the completion of the prophecy 7 years long? Is it all 'tribulation'?

Pretrib and preterism are both designed to prove that the Bishop of Rome is not the Antichrist. That is why they created a "gap".

Preterism says that the Bishop of Rome can't be the Antichrist, because it was all fulfilled by 70 AD.

Pretrib says that the Bishop of Rome can't be the Antichrist because he has not been revealed yet.

All designed to show that Rome is not the beast nation, and that Caesar and the Bishop of Rome are not the Antichrist.

[Diaste]

15 minutes ago, abcdef said:

It looked like 1967 when the people of Israel took military control of Jerusalem.

Lk 21:24, shows that the times of the gentiles ends when the trampling of the gentiles is completed.

The complete "times of the gentiles" is shown in the statue of Dan. 2. From Babylon until Jerusalem is restored. Jesus was talking about the second part of the statue, the "troubles and tribulations" of 70 AD until 1967.

 

Hmm...the trouble hasn't ended. Jews aren't allowed to pray on the Mount. Jordan is the caretaker of the Mount. 

[Diaste]

26 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Hello Diaste,

Similar to what is widely understood, when I think of what is often referred to as the Seven Year Tribulation Period, my mind goes immediately to Daniel's "Seventy Weeks" prophecy (Dan. 9:24-27) and its last, or 70th Week (vs. 27).  As I see it, there are very interesting and scriptural evidences that this will be a period of seven years (or, a "week" of years), with an event taking place "in the midst of the week" (vs. 27), which essentially divides the week into two 3-1/2 year periods.

I agree it's a period of 7 years. But is it all "tribulation" and all that goes along with that as well as "such as was not nor ever shall be" to the point where everyone is dead, or nearly so?

[Brother Duke]

3 minutes ago, SONshine said:

...because God tells this locust army not to:

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

How do we know that after 5 months they cannot be killed?  This is only the 1st Woe Not the 2nd Woe.

Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. 

The 1st Woe did not pass until after the 5th trump.  The 2nd Woe more are killed.

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

This all happens before the harpazo at the end of the 2nd woe.