In HEAVEN, in HEAVENLY BODIES, living with CHRIST, RIGHT NOW

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How do you arrive at that conclusion???  


PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE SHOW ME ONE PASSAGE VERSE ANYTHING WHERE GOD SAYS HE IS TAKING THE CHURCH TO HEAVEN.  

You have to understand what is written. Go back and read John 14. Jesus went (to heaven) to prepare homes for us (in heaven). One day He will return and get us and take us to those homes He has prepared. The body of Christ is going to be in heaven for 7 plus years: and will need places to stay: "homes."  How can we return with Jesus (as the armies of heaven) unless we are there to return with Him? (Don't pull Rev. 19 return of Christ out of its after the week context.)

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

BECAUSE IT ISN'T WRITTEN.  I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER WAY TO SAY IT.  ENDURE TO THE END.  

IF IT IS EASY TO PROVE THEN PROVE IT.  

SHOW ME where it is written,

NOT PIECED TOGETHER BY MAN

It is one assumption upon another, if it wasn't IT WOULD BE WRITTEN.  

WHICH prophet taught this as a DOCTRINE?  

You keep giving me verses that YOU SAY are about the church.  

SHOW ME WHERE GOD SAYS IT.  It isn't like it would be something to not speak of.  

I agree with you that we must question what "the Light" says.

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

STILL, not ONE TIME HAS GOD SAID HE IS GATHERING BEFORE THE WICKED IS REVEALED.  

I must disagree. If we follow John's chronology, the raptured church is seen in heaven (Rev, 7) long before the man of sin will be revealed at the midpoint of the week, which is in chapter 11.

Then when we understand Paul's use of the Greek word "Apostasia" a the very significant "departing" of the church - as the restrainer "taken out of the way" - we see that in his second letter Paul agrees with His first letter: that the rapture will come before any part of the 70th week, much less the midpoint of the week.

We must understand that all end time scriptures must fit together. We are in heaven to return WITH Him. We see that in Rev. 19. Again this takes understanding of John's chronology. Of course if one is willing to pull things out of context, they will end up believing anything. In chapter 19, before Christ returns in power, the marriage and supper will take place. Note again, BEFORE His return. How in the world will the Body of Christ be in heaven for the marriage unless the rapture takes us that before?

Just believe John! First, John 14, then John in the entire book of Revelation.

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AGAIN, show me WHERE ESCAPE means 'TAKEN TO HEAVEN'.  

You are telling the world that you don't believe John 14. And that you don't understand Rev. 19 and all the previous chapters leading up to chapter 19.

In John 14 the church is taken to heaven. In Rev. 7 the just raptured church is SEEN in heaven. In Rev. 19 the church is IN HEAVEN for the marriage and supper.

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  18 hours ago, The Light said:

We are not appointed to God's wrath. None of God's people are appointed to His wrath.

 

And since Gods Wrath doesn't fall upon US,

NO MATTER WHERE WE ARE,


how DO YOU COME to the conclusion that you will be TAKEN TO HEAVEN? 


IT JUST DOESN'T SAY THAT IN THE BIBLE ANYWHERE.  

Again you are showing the world that you lack understanding of the scriptures - especially Revelation.

First: when God's wrath falls, it is going to be totally inclusive: whoever is in the sea when it turns to blood, they will die. Whoever is thirsty and needs freshwater, it will be turned to blood. It is not going to be like in Goshen that the later plagues that hit Egypt did not come to Goshen. You cannot find that language anywhere in Revelation. First there is 1/3 destruction in the trumpets then total destruction in the vials. Anyone on earth at that time is going to be under God's wrath. That is why God pulls the church out of the earth.

Next, it seems you don't understand that the 70th week (which includes God's wrath) is for Daniel's people, NOT THE CHURCH.  Again, it is why the church is pulled out. God's wrath is for all those left behind.  Why do you suppose God used the word "left" while some were taken? Why is it so hard to believe Jesus will take us to the homes he has prepared? All those that have died in Christ are already there enjoying their homes. 

Third, it seems many do not believe John or understand him in Revelation. God begins the DAY of His wrath before the 70th week begins, proving the entire 70th week is INSIDE the Day of His wrath. ANYONE not taken in the rapture ("left") behind, will be in His wrath. For example, when God DIMS the sun, it will affect all on the earth! When God cranks up the heat from the sun, again, it will affect ALL on the earth. If someone is left behind at the rapture, it will be impossible to avoid God's wrath. Period and end of story.

[DeighAnn]

WHERE ARE WE?  WHO IS THE LORD SPEAKING WITH?
John 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.

John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

John 13:28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.

John 13:29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

John 13:30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.

John 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

JUST TO BE CLEAR, WHO IS THE LORD SPEAKING TO? 

 

John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: AND AS I SAID UNTO THE JEWS, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.



SO JUST AS JESUS TOLD THE JEWS, HE IS TELLING THOSE WHO ARE THE BEGINNING OF THE CHURCH/BODY OF CHRIST

DON'T LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU INTO THINKING THE CHURCH/BODY OF CHRIST IS NOT ONE.  THERE IS NO SEPARATION FOR ANY 'DOCTRINES'.  

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


 

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

JUST LIKE HE SAID UNTO THE JEWS  -  IF YOU BELIEVE IN CHRIST YOU ARE ABRAHAMS SEED AND HEIRS TO THE PROMISE  


 

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

THOSE WHO WISH TO BE PRE TRIB RAPTURED, THE ANSWER IS CLEAR.  NO


IT IS WHEN WE DIE/SLEEP WE GO HERE TO BE WITH THE LORD.  NOTICE NOTHING OF TRIBULATION IS BEING SPOKEN OF.  NO END TIME EVENTS.  
 

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

NOT THE CHURCH, NOT A GROUP BUT "NO MAN".
AND WHEN DO WE GO TO THE LORD?  WHEN WE DIE.  AND WHO IS RETURNING WITH CHRIST WHEN HE COMES 

 THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP HE IS BRINGING BACK WITH HIM.  

HOW DO WE KNOW?   BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN.  RIGHT THERE FOR ALL THE WORLD TO READ AND UNDERSTAND.  IF THIS WERE TRUTH CONCERNING 'THE CHURCH' AS A WHOLE, THEN THAT WOULD ALSO BE WRITTEN.  NEVER NOT ONCE CAN YOU FIND IT WRITTEN.  DOESN'T MATTER TO SOME THOUGH, THEY DON'T CARE, THEY ARE BRINGING A DOCTRINE THAT IS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.  PAUL WARNS AGAINST THOSE WHO BRING YOU WHAT IS NOT WRITTEN.  GOD WROTE HIS WORDS TO BE TAUGHT AS HE HAD THEM WRITTEN, DOCTRINES TO BE TAUGHT AS WRITTEN, 

NOT DOCTRINES  MADE UP OF VERSES FROM HERE AND THERE, DISECTED AND PUT BACK TOGETHER IN A  WAY IN WHICH GODS TRUTH IS TWISTED. SURE YOU WILL FIND A LOT OF 'TRUTHFUL' VERSES, 

BUT REALLY IT'S JUST 'A NEW DOCTRINE'. ONE NOT TAUGHT BY ANY PROPHET, JUST PIECED TOGETHER BY MAN TO CAUSE CONFUSION AND TO MAKE DOING ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING OK WHEN IT COMES TO BEING DECEIVED BECAUSE 'YOU WILL BE GONE' BEFORE YOU COULD DO SOMETHING WRONG.  PROBLEM IS IS IT ISN'T FOUND AS A DOCTRINE IN GODS WORD.  NOT A DOCTRINE TAUGHT IN GODS WORD.  GODS WORD TEACHES NO SUCH THING. 


IF A PRE TRIB RAP WAS IN FACT A TEACHING OF GODS IT WOULD BE FOUND WRITTEN JUST AS CLEARLY AS

THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP GOING TO GOD AND RETURNING WITH HIM.  

MANY ELDERS HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP AND WE FIND THEM SPOKEN OF IN HEAVEN STILL CALLED  "ELDERS".  NEVER ONCE HAS THE CHRUCH BEEN REFERRED TO AS ELDERS. 

LOOK HOW CLEAR AND STRAIGHT FORWARD GOD IS WITH HIS PLAN.  

THOSE WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM.  

DON'T TAKE WHAT IS MOST SIMPLE AND STRAIGHT FORWARD AND TWIST IT.  IF IT WERE IN FACT A PRE TRIB CHURCH WE WOULD FIND A VERSE THAT LOOKED JUST LIKE THE VERSE  ABOUT THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP.  

1  Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM.

DOES ANYONE SEE 'THE CHURCH'?  DON'T KNOW HOW THEY COULD AS THIS IS MOST SPECIFIC.  

 

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

WHERE ARE WE?  WHO IS THE LORD SPEAKING WITH?
John 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.

John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

John 13:28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.

John 13:29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

John 13:30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.

John 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

JUST TO BE CLEAR, WHO IS THE LORD SPEAKING TO? 

 

John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: AND AS I SAID UNTO THE JEWS, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.



SO JUST AS JESUS TOLD THE JEWS, HE IS TELLING THOSE WHO ARE THE BEGINNING OF THE CHURCH/BODY OF CHRIST

DON'T LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU INTO THINKING THE CHURCH/BODY OF CHRIST IS NOT ONE.  THERE IS NO SEPARATION FOR ANY 'DOCTRINES'.  

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


 

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

JUST LIKE HE SAID UNTO THE JEWS  -  IF YOU BELIEVE IN CHRIST YOU ARE ABRAHAMS SEED AND HEIRS TO THE PROMISE  


 

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

THOSE WHO WISH TO BE PRE TRIB RAPTURED, THE ANSWER IS CLEAR.  NO


IT IS WHEN WE DIE/SLEEP WE GO HERE TO BE WITH THE LORD.  NOTICE NOTHING OF TRIBULATION IS BEING SPOKEN OF.  NO END TIME EVENTS.  
 

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

NOT THE CHURCH, NOT A GROUP BUT "NO MAN".
AND WHEN DO WE GO TO THE LORD?  WHEN WE DIE.  AND WHO IS RETURNING WITH CHRIST WHEN HE COMES 

 THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP HE IS BRINGING BACK WITH HIM.  

HOW DO WE KNOW?   BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN.  RIGHT THERE FOR ALL THE WORLD TO READ AND UNDERSTAND.  IF THIS WERE TRUTH CONCERNING 'THE CHURCH' AS A WHOLE, THEN THAT WOULD ALSO BE WRITTEN.  NEVER NOT ONCE CAN YOU FIND IT WRITTEN.  DOESN'T MATTER TO SOME THOUGH, THEY DON'T CARE, THEY ARE BRINGING A DOCTRINE THAT IS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.  PAUL WARNS AGAINST THOSE WHO BRING YOU WHAT IS NOT WRITTEN.  GOD WROTE HIS WORDS TO BE TAUGHT AS HE HAD THEM WRITTEN, DOCTRINES TO BE TAUGHT AS WRITTEN, 

NOT DOCTRINES  MADE UP OF VERSES FROM HERE AND THERE, DISECTED AND PUT BACK TOGETHER IN A  WAY IN WHICH GODS TRUTH IS TWISTED. SURE YOU WILL FIND A LOT OF 'TRUTHFUL' VERSES, 

BUT REALLY IT'S JUST 'A NEW DOCTRINE'. ONE NOT TAUGHT BY ANY PROPHET, JUST PIECED TOGETHER BY MAN TO CAUSE CONFUSION AND TO MAKE DOING ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING OK WHEN IT COMES TO BEING DECEIVED BECAUSE 'YOU WILL BE GONE' BEFORE YOU COULD DO SOMETHING WRONG.  PROBLEM IS IS IT ISN'T FOUND AS A DOCTRINE IN GODS WORD.  NOT A DOCTRINE TAUGHT IN GODS WORD.  GODS WORD TEACHES NO SUCH THING. 


IF A PRE TRIB RAP WAS IN FACT A TEACHING OF GODS IT WOULD BE FOUND WRITTEN JUST AS CLEARLY AS

THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP GOING TO GOD AND RETURNING WITH HIM.  

MANY ELDERS HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP AND WE FIND THEM SPOKEN OF IN HEAVEN STILL CALLED  "ELDERS".  NEVER ONCE HAS THE CHRUCH BEEN REFERRED TO AS ELDERS. 

LOOK HOW CLEAR AND STRAIGHT FORWARD GOD IS WITH HIS PLAN.  

THOSE WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM.  

DON'T TAKE WHAT IS MOST SIMPLE AND STRAIGHT FORWARD AND TWIST IT.  IF IT WERE IN FACT A PRE TRIB CHURCH WE WOULD FIND A VERSE THAT LOOKED JUST LIKE THE VERSE  ABOUT THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP.  

1  Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM.

DOES ANYONE SEE 'THE CHURCH'?  DON'T KNOW HOW THEY COULD AS THIS IS MOST SPECIFIC.  

It would be hard to find a clearer teaching that 1 thes. 4 where Paul writes of the catching up of the saints.  At the time of the rapture, billions of believers will have already passed (died in Christ) and their spirits will be in heaven with Jesus. It is these whom Jesus will bring with Him so they can rejoin with their body and be complete (a trinity) once again.  OF COURSE those "in Christ" is speaking of  "the church." 

You can deny this rapture until you are out of breath, but your unbelief will still not stop Jesus from coming for His Bride. He will come, catch up His bride, and take her to the homes He has prepared. Since everything we get from heaven we obtain by faith, I question whether those who don't believe in the rapture will be among those caught up. It is truly dangerous to believe against what is going to happen. 

[iamlamad]

On 3/2/2021 at 11:07 AM, DeighAnn said:

 Straight forward and simply GODS WORD 101

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions if it were not so, I would have told you. I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE  no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


HEAVEN.  HE died and rose, as we will, so that HE MAY BRING THEM BACK WITH HIM WHEN HE RETURNS.  (unless we are still alive and remaining unto His return)



 

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM. 
 

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

NO STOPPING THE DEAD FROM RISING

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

There is not now/nor will there ever be any MENTION of any ASCENSION by OUR LORD BACK TO HEAVEN once that trump of God sounds

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There is not now/nor will there ever be any MENTION of any ASCENSION by OUR LORD BACK TO HEAVEN once that trump of God sounds

You just contradicted the very verses you quoted.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I just requoted it. Question: where "am" Jesus from Rev. chapter 18 to chapter 18 (all the days of the 70th week of Daniel as written by John)? He MUST BE in heaven because He is seen descending from heaven in chapter 19. Next, "the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints..." or as John said, with the armies of heaven. 

The saints will be in heaven WITH HIM (where I am there you may be also). 

HOW did Jesus get back to heaven from descending down to the air as shown in 1 Thes. 4? Only one way: He ASCENDED back. There is no first stating that word for word, but yet the WORD shows us that is what happens. And that is the very INTENT of John 14: He went to heaven to make abodes for us. One day when they are all finished, He will return and get us (His bride) and take us to those abodes He has made. 

Isn't that was bridegrooms do? They take their bride to the home prepared. Why fight it? 

[other one]

I think he brings those abodes with him down here.

Rev 21:2-4
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.  4  He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
ESV
 

[TheBlade]

Reading all this...wow great stuff on BOTH sides thank you. Not to cut in but I was thinking as I read something is missing and one touched on it " 7 feasts of Israel"

Well this was always about Israel. Forgive but this has never been so easy to figure out. Christ died rose when? The year is 2021 and just what are we talking about? I guess simple could be He comes in the clouds.. He does not say with any one else and shout voice trump dead rise we then get caught up with them to be with Him forever. From that moment on.. we will always be with Him. Thats my lol simple