In the Bible, where does the Old Testament end and the New Tetament begin?

[JohnD]

Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

And what bearing (if any) does this have on the way the Church handles or mishandles the Gospel?

[Who me]

Context is always key.

               It is pointing to the supremacy of Jesus to the of sacrifices. That he sacrificed himself,not in an earthly temple but before Almighty God him self, once for all.

 

[Riverwalker]

"And what bearing (if any) does this have on the way the Church handles or mishandles the Gospel?"   

Which church do you speak of? The entirety of Christianity or some organization of man?

 

The Old Covenant (Testament) was completed on the Cross, through the blood of the lamb the price was paid.  The New Covenant was created On resurrection  and empowered on Pentecost.

While there is no where in the bible that states explicitly when this change occurred, I base the above on many scriptures including:

 

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Galatians 5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

Acts 1:4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Edited March 7, 2021 by Riverwalker

[johnthebaptist]

6 hours ago, JohnD said:

Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

And what bearing (if any) does this have on the way the Church handles or mishandles the Gospel?

The Old Testament ends on page 839, and the New Testament begins on page one (again). Chuckle chuckle.

I am having trouble wrapping my mind around your question. It troubles me how many dismiss the Old Testament. It is true that God was talking to the Jews in the Old Testament, and that Christians don't recognize all the ordinances, decrees, and statutes given to the Jews, but tremendous wisdom is imparted. If a teacher ignores this widsom, that is HIS problem, but what happens when he teaches others to do the same?

[DeighAnn]

Can we come to faith without the old schoolmaster?  

Since we all become Abrahams 'seed' and heirs to the promises, doesn't all of it apply to us?

Once we know it, we understand what changed and what didn't.  Without it, we are lost.  There can be no understanding of Revelation without Genesis

IMHO.  

[Michael37]

9 hours ago, JohnD said:

In the Bible, where does the Old Testament end and the New Tetament begin?

Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

And what bearing (if any) does this have on the way the Church handles or mishandles the Gospel?

Hi JohnD.

It may not be too late for you to correct your spelling error in the thread title. Try right-clicking or something over it.

You are asking literally where in the Bible the Old Testament ends, so that would be with the last verse of Malachi, and where in the Bible the New Testament begins, which would be with the first verse of Matthew.

You are also asking what bearing this has on the way the Gospel is handled or mishandled by "the Church", by which I hope you mean anyone who is a member of the body of Christ and not, as some do, just the so-called "clergy". 

All Christians should endeavour to rightly divide the Word of truth.

2Ti 2:15  Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This means applying portions of Scripture appropriately, something which Paul raised with the Council of Jerusalem when conflicting doctrines were being taught concerning whether Gentiles needed to be circumcised if they were in fellowship with Jewish Christians who still felt obligated to the old ways.

Act 15:1  And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Act 15:5  But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Even though Moses was still being read every Sabbath in many synagogues, the dispute was resolved when the Council ruled that the Gentiles did not need to be yoked to burdensome laws that were now unnecessary.

After the announcement Christ made at the Last Supper it took some time for NT Grace to take precedence over OT Law in some quarters, and the epistles of the NT make reference to those who were unable to accept the strong meat of the truth that Christ had fulfilled the Law on their behalf and they were charitoō hēmas in the agapaō [accepted in the beloved]on the basis of His work not their own.

[other one]

9 hours ago, JohnD said:

Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

And what bearing (if any) does this have on the way the Church handles or mishandles the Gospel?

The old Testament was chapter one....    Mankind was created pure and unable to distinguish good and evil...   God wanted mankind to judge the angels that had rebelled so he created us and let Lucifer himself give us the ability to judge them......    then the watchers came down and created a new kind of human and corrupted everyone except Noah and two of his three children and families.

Chapter two entailed  the refilling of the earth from the flood and once more the majority of mankind turned against God so God divorced himself from mankind and gave them over to watchers.  The watchers then decided to demand worship from the people and everything went corrupt again.....   Except for Abraham.  God kept him and recreated a people for himself...     And ultimately they turned to the pagan watcher gods.

Chapter three (new Testament) was when Jesus came down and payed the price for the worlds corruption and made it possible for Humans to commune with God again through the Holy Spirit.

Chapter four will be when he comes back and exercises the authority that was replaced when he ascended after his resurrection.   

The end of volume one comes to light when Lucifer and all those that rejected God are disposed of.    End of volume one and the beginning of volume two.   I think I remember reading that the human mind can not conceive the things that will be the make up of volume two   I understand that it will be a huge volume.

[BeyondET]

Luke 2:11

 

 

[JohnD]

Tradition places the end of the Old Covenant (Testament) after Malachi 4

and the beginning of the New Covenant (Testament) at Matthew 1.

At first blush, the Bible does appear to take a drastic turn at the advent of the promised Messiah Jesus.

But the Law (Old Covenant / Old Testament) was in effect until the death of Jesus Christ on the cross:

• Matthew 27:50
• Mark 15:37
• Luke 23:46
• John 19:30

The Law was still in effect when Jesus commented on it's mishandling in the Sermon on the Mount.

"Ye have heard it said, but I say..."

"if you forgive not men neither will your Heavenly Father forgive you..."

"if thine eye offends thee pluck it out and throw it away... better to enter life maimed than hell in tact"

"submit to those on Moses' seat..."

etc.

All these make the Gospel message itself confusing if not contradictory when you don't put them in the proper biblical perspective as Old Testament.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 3:16-18 / John 6:26 / John 16:26-27 etc. all only speak about belief... no works, no forgiving others, no tithing, no sinner's prayer...

no water baptism, no gouging out eyes or cutting off limbs...

Believe Jesus and be saved.

Or believe man and continue on to hell (John 3:18 / Mark 7:7 / Matthew 7:21-23). 

[Peterlag]

The New Testament started when the Christian started which was Acts chapter 4.