Abomination

[Duck]

What is the abomination of desolation?

is it a future event, prior to Jesus’ return?

Edited March 17, 2021 by Duck

[Riverwalker]

The abomination of desolation is a prophetic event found in the book of Daniel (Daniel 12:11) and referred to by Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:15). Though it has historical fulfillments, there is also a future fulfillment when daily sacrifices will be offered in Jerusalem and then cut off and replaced by some sort of blasphemous display. This prophecy is significant because it represents an important time marker signaling the nearness of the return of Jesus Christ.

abomination of desolation

[Riverwalker]

3 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The website to which you have linked us asserts there are multiple fulfillments of the abomination of desolation. It states, "The abomination of desolation actually has three fulfillments—two in the past and one in the future," but it provides absolutely no scriptural justification for that position. None. 

When Jesus spoke of the term used in the book of Daniel he did so using the word "the," and speaking of the condition or event in singular terms. He did not say, "When you see one of the many possible abominations of desolation." Nor did he say, "When you see an abomination of desolation." He said, "When you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through the prophet Daniel....." It is a single, singular event. Furthermore, 

Matthew 24:3-16
"As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, 'Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"  And Jesus answered and said to them, 'See to it that no one misleads you.  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.  You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.  But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.  Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.  Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.  Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.  But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.  This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.  Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),  then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.'" 

We see he plainly stated the AoD would be standing in the holy place. If the mention of "the holy place" is a reference to the temple and more specifically the "holy of holies" the section of the temple then there has to be a temple standing for that condition or event to occur. There was a temple still standing in Matthew 24 and Jesus had just stated it would be destroyed just a few verses earlier. 

There isn't a single verse in the entire Bible explicitly stating another temple will ever be rebuilt. None. Many times have I asked futurists in Worthy to show me such a verse and NONE have EVER been able to provide such a verse. the "future temple" position is always and only a function of inference and those inferences are always and only eisegetic, never exegetic. 

 

Jesus told the twelve they would see the AoD. It was an event future to them but not to us. 

 

Even if there is another temple built it will likely take decades to build and all us old folks won't be around to see it. Even if there is another temple built there' no guarantee or proof it will be a fulfillment of prophesy; temples are built every year and they have nothing whatsoever to do with fulfilling prophesy. This is especially so since  modern Israel is not a reoccurrence of Biblical Israel. Even if there is another temple built it not only would take decades to build but it might decades after its completion for an AoD to show up. 

It's a bad eschatology that looks for an AoD any day now. 

Psalm 69:22-28
"May their table before them become a snare; And when they are in peace, may it become a trap.  May their eyes grow dim so that they cannot see, and make their loins shake continually.  Pour out Your indignation on them, and may Your burning anger overtake them.  May their camp be desolate; may none dwell in their tents.  For they have persecuted him whom You Yourself have smitten, And they tell of the pain of those whom You have wounded.  Add iniquity to their iniquity, and may they not come into Your righteousness.  May they be blotted out of the book of life and may they not be recorded with the righteous."

Lamentations 5:1-18
"Remember, O LORD, what has befallen us; look, and see our reproach!  Our inheritance has been turned over to strangers, our houses to aliens...... The joy of our hearts has ceased; our dancing has been turned into mourning.  The crown has fallen from our head; woe to us, for we have sinned!  Because of this our heart is faint, because of these things our eyes are dim;  because of Mount Zion which lies desolate, foxes prowl in it."

Isaiah 1:4-7
"Alas, sinful nation, people weighed down with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, sons who act corruptly! They have abandoned the LORD, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they have turned away from him.  Where will you be stricken again, as you continue in your rebellion? The whole head is sick and the whole heart is faint.  From the sole of the foot even to the head there is nothing sound in it, only bruises, welts and raw wounds, not pressed out or bandaged, nor softened with oil.  Your land is desolate, your cities are burned with fire, your fields—strangers are devouring them in your presence; it is desolation, as overthrown by strangers."

Micah 6:9-13
"The voice of the LORD will call to the city— And it is sound wisdom to fear Your name: 'Hear, O tribe. Who has appointed its time?  Is there yet a man in the wicked house, along with treasures of wickedness And a short measure that is cursed?  Can I justify wicked scales And a bag of deceptive weights?  For the rich men of the city are full of violence, Her residents speak lies, And their tongue is deceitful in their mouth. So also I will make you sick, striking you down, desolating you because of your sins." 

That's just a sample. All those prophesies were fulfilled in or soon after the messianic era. A study of the terms as used in scripture will inform and answer the question this op askes. 

Thank you for your opinion, but I reject preterism completely. I could go through this line by line and argue it with you, but I feel I would simply be spinning my wheels. Peace to you.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Justin Adams]

25 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Thank you for your opinion, but I reject preterism completely. I could go through this line by line and argue it with you, but I feel I would simply be spinning my wheels. Peace to you.

For the benefit of the many thousands of readers that have been indoctrinated every which way, I think it is a good idea to go thru this line by line. Just to get it all straight in our minds.

[Duck]

In the mark 13 discourse, following the A o D statement. He points to the event of His return.

The Coming of the Son of Man

²⁴ “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;

 ²⁵ the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

²⁶ Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

 ²⁷ And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

[Duck]

1 hour ago, Riverwalker said:

Jesus told the twelve they would see the AoD. It was an event future to them but not to us. 

True

[Charlie744]

What an interesting topic and this is where we all get to read the responses an thoughts that will make one think more deeply than ever, and this certainly means is a very difficult and controversial subject.

 I believe there may be at least 4 items to consider here ( and I am sure you folks can identify many more.. ). 

For me, here are the 4

1) what is meant by the term “abomination”,

       a) does this refer to an act or harm or event on Israel? 

       b) who is perpetuating this act or event? 

2) that act or event will CAUSE a “desolation”.

       a) what is being desolated?

       b) who is doing the “desolating”

3) what time are these events taken place?

        a) is the “abomination” happening at the same time as the “desolation?”

        b) are these two separated in time?

        c) are these all end times events?

        d) are there both end time events and earlier events (70 AD) ?

4) there are a few references to these two terms - abomination and desolation, mentioned in the Gospels, I think in Revelation (have not studied it yet). Does our findings in 1 to 3 conflict or support our interpretations in these books. 

Now, everyone has their own method of studying the Scriptures but this is what I have tried to answer AFTER I read so many folks who have authored today’s accepted interpretations. 

So, if anyone is interested, what is this “abomination” and it’s first mention - since I believe would determine / identify just what it is.

Charlie

[JohnD]

16 hours ago, Duck said:

What is the abomination of desolation?

is it a future event, prior to Jesus’ return?

It is the false messiah claiming to be the real one.

[Duck]

‘Let the reader understand’ ??

(he who has ears to hear...)

i believe that we need to know for certain

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, JohnD said:

It is the false messiah claiming to be the real one.

JohnD, where does that come from? 

Where does that term originate? 

Thanks, Charlie