Timing of the parables in Matthew 25

[iamlamad]

Matthew 24: 29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Jesus took His listeners from their time through the church age, then to the midpoint of the week when He mentioned the abomination. Here He is after the tribulation. of course this is future to us today. Then He begins talking about the TIMING of His coming.  He does this with parables. 

The Fig Tree

Jesus begins with the parable of the fig tree and all the trees. If the fig tree represents Israel, then "all the trees" represent the nations of the world. Today we see an alliance of Russian with Syria in the Middle East. We see Israel back in their land. We see war in Syria. We see "upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity." In Matthew we read "when you see all these things..." We have seen almost everything in that chapter except for His coming!  I just discovered a "live" earthquake feed online: it seems almost every minute another small earthquake. It seems the "trees" are lined up for the end. 

Next, He talked about the goodman of the house NOT knowing when the thief was coming.  Then, " Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."  And what is the timing for this? Jesus is still  "immediately after the tribulation..."  Next, Jesus talked about "a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household." Will that servant watch, or will he begin to grow impatient as if the Master had delayed His coming?  Jesus gave another warning:  "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of.  Remember, this is still "after the tribulation of those days" Jesus is talking about. Jesus main point so far is to be ready at all times. Don't even think Jesus has delayed His coming! 

Jesus next parable is the parable of the Ten Virgins. The timing therefore on it has not changed: Jesus did not put in chapter headings!  He is STILL talking about the time after the tribulation of those days and His coming.  It seems Many people today think He will come on the last day of the week. They are mistaken.  So the parable of the Ten Virgins is for no other time than the time after the tribulation of those days and before His coming. For the pretribbers, that would be His coming for Armageddon.   Many people think this parable is for the rapture. No, it is not. The bride is not even mentioned! This is about the guests for the wedding. It is pointed right at the Jews who have survived the 70th week. The Antichrist Beast has probably not yet gathered the armies of the world to Israel, but is just about to. 

Jesus next parable is the parable of the talents. It is pointed right at the Jews. Did you notice that there is nothing in these parables of being born again? It seems to be  works based here. It is not for the church. It is for that short time after the trib and before His coming.  In Verse 19 Jesus said, "After a long time the lord of those servants cometh..."  The wicked servant was cast into outer darkness. 

Next, Jesus said, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory..." It is the judgment of the nations. Now it is AFTER Jesus has come. 

I offer a challenge: can anyone find a verse in these chapters that definitely points to the church?

 

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Matthew 24: 29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Jesus took His listeners from their time through the church age, then to the midpoint of the week when He mentioned the abomination. Here He is after the tribulation. of course this is future to us today. Then He begins talking about the TIMING of His coming.  He does this with parables. 

The Fig Tree

Jesus begins with the parable of the fig tree and all the trees. If the fig tree represents Israel, then "all the trees" represent the nations of the world. Today we see an alliance of Russian with Syria in the Middle East. We see Israel back in their land. We see war in Syria. We see "upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity." In Matthew we read "when you see all these things..." We have seen almost everything in that chapter except for His coming!  I just discovered a "live" earthquake feed online: it seems almost every minute another small earthquake. It seems the "trees" are lined up for the end. 

Next, He talked about the goodman of the house NOT knowing when the thief was coming.  Then, " Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."  And what is the timing for this? Jesus is still  "immediately after the tribulation..."  Next, Jesus talked about "a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household." Will that servant watch, or will he begin to grow impatient as if the Master had delayed His coming?  Jesus gave another warning:  "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of.  Remember, this is still "after the tribulation of those days" Jesus is talking about. Jesus main point so far is to be ready at all times. Don't even think Jesus has delayed His coming! 

Jesus next parable is the parable of the Ten Virgins. The timing therefore on it has not changed: Jesus did not put in chapter headings!  He is STILL talking about the time after the tribulation of those days and His coming.  It seems Many people today think He will come on the last day of the week. They are mistaken.  So the parable of the Ten Virgins is for no other time than the time after the tribulation of those days and before His coming. For the pretribbers, that would be His coming for Armageddon.   Many people think this parable is for the rapture. No, it is not. The bride is not even mentioned! This is about the guests for the wedding. It is pointed right at the Jews who have survived the 70th week. The Antichrist Beast has probably not yet gathered the armies of the world to Israel, but is just about to. 

Jesus next parable is the parable of the talents. It is pointed right at the Jews. Did you notice that there is nothing in these parables of being born again? It seems to be  works based here. It is not for the church. It is for that short time after the trib and before His coming.  In Verse 19 Jesus said, "After a long time the lord of those servants cometh..."  The wicked servant was cast into outer darkness. 

Next, Jesus said, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory..." It is the judgment of the nations. Now it is AFTER Jesus has come. 

I offer a challenge: can anyone find a verse in these chapters that definitely points to the church?

 

The kingdom of heaven, Matt 25:1 and v 14.

You are in the kingdom of heaven now.

Your just not in heaven yet, we inherit the kingdom after the judgment of good and evil v 34.

Who are judged at the same time.

[iamlamad]

21 minutes ago, abcdef said:

The kingdom of heaven, Matt 25:1 and v 14.

You are in the kingdom of heaven now.

Your just not in heaven yet, we inherit the kingdom after the judgment of good and evil v 34.

Who are judged at the same time.

No, that is not exclusively for the church. What about the resurrection of the Old Testament saints? They get to go to heaven too. 

[R. Hartono]

If the good man of the house must go thru the Tribulation then the Lord wud not come like a thief, n therefore no need to stay alert.

Edited April 13, 2020 by R. Hartono

[abcdef]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

No, that is not exclusively for the church. What about the resurrection of the Old Testament saints? They get to go to heaven too. 

O.T. saints go to heaven, but they are not in the kingdom.

The kingdom started on Pentecost.

All the saved go to heaven, but the kingdom has a special place above all others.

That's why Jesus said that the least in the kingdom is greater that John the baptist. Matt 11:11.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

O.T. saints go to heaven, but they are not in the kingdom.

The kingdom started on Pentecost.

All the saved go to heaven, but the kingdom has a special place above all others.

That's why Jesus said that the least in the kingdom is greater that John the baptist. Matt 11:11.

There are different terms for the kingdoms of God.  The Old Testament saints have been enjoying heaven (in their spirit form) for centuries. Jesus said least in the kingdom of HEAVEN. How can someone be IN HEAVEN and not a part of the Kingdom of heaven. I tend to disagree with you. 

When Jesus talked about being born again, without which no one could see the Kingdom of God: how do you define the "Kingdom of God?"  I think most people insert "kingdom of heaven" into that verse: that no one is going to heaven unless they are "born again." I have certainly done this. Yet, I think we both would agree that many people from the Old Covenant are in heaven right now, as Jesus "led captivity captive." I would say they are certainly IN the "kingdom of heaven." Did Jesus preach to them all in paradise, and did they all get "born again" at that time so they could go to heaven - or is being born again NOT a prerequisite for heaven? 

Added later: I think it is necessary to be born again to go to heaven. The old Adam spirit MUST be renewed or regenerated. Therefore I think that after Jesus rose from the dead, God renewed all the spirits of the saints who had passed before.   I await your input. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

If the good man of the house must go thru the Tribulation then the Lord wud not come like a thief, n therefore no need to stay alert.

Why? Can you explain?

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Quote

There are different terms for the kingdoms of God.  The Old Testament saints have been enjoying heaven (in their spirit form) for centuries. Jesus said least in the kingdom of HEAVEN. How can someone be IN HEAVEN and not a part of the Kingdom of heaven. I tend to disagree with you. 

All saved souls go to heaven, but once every soul is there, not all of them are in the same position as related to the throne of God, some are "closer", it seems.

We all have different positions in the gospel Pentecost kingdom, one body, different functions, some plant, some water, both are necessary, both bring glory to Jesus.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Quote

When Jesus talked about being born again, without which no one could see the Kingdom of God: how do you define the "Kingdom of God?"  I think most people insert "kingdom of heaven" into that verse: that no one is going to heaven unless they are "born again." I have certainly done this. Yet, I think we both would agree that many people from the Old Covenant are in heaven right now, as Jesus "led captivity captive." I would say they are certainly IN the "kingdom of heaven." Did Jesus preach to them all in paradise, and did they all get "born again" at that time so they could go to heaven - or is being born again NOT a prerequisite for heaven? 

When we enter the present kingdom of God we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (H.S.) Acts 2:38. This was not available before Pentecost. This is one of the primary differences between the old and new covenant.

So you have 3 main groups of saved souls

1. Those from the O.T. who were not Israel. Adam, Able, Noah, Seth, Abraham, Issac, and the gentile nations. (All the saved souls raised with Jesus at the first resurrection.) ( The multitude that no man can count, MTNMCC, seen with Jesus in 96 AD) 

2. Those who are Israel from the first resurrection. Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, John the Baptist, etc.. (144,000)

3.Those who obey the new H.S. covenant and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. These are raised at the second resurrection, which is yet to happen.

-----------

The first 2 groups did not receive the gift of the H.S. during their lifetimes, so they are seen being "sealed" with the H.S. against the second death in Rev 7.

As Christians, we are already sealed with the gift of the H.S. against the second death.

When we get to heaven, those who have the gift of the Holy Spirit, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will be, much closer, we shall sit on the throne with Him. To speak of such things is done with great humility and respect and fear, not yet knowing the face of Jesus in His glory. 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Quote

Added later: I think it is necessary to be born again to go to heaven. The old Adam spirit MUST be renewed or regenerated. Therefore I think that after Jesus rose from the dead, God renewed all the spirits of the saints who had passed before.   I await your input. 

 

In the age of the kingdom on planet earth, it is necessary to be born again to enter heaven. Since the new covenant began on Pentecost and the gentiles were allowed in, it doesn't matter if you are an Israelite or a gentile, you must obey the gospel and receive the gift of the H.S. to be saved from then on, if aware.

The resurrection is a type of "renewal" of the living saved souls bringing them to God. The dead souls are brought before the throne, but are not renewed to be alive to God, they are lost souls. 

[iamlamad]

38 minutes ago, abcdef said:

When we enter the present kingdom of God we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (H.S.) Acts 2:38. This was not available before Pentecost. This is one of the primary differences between the old and new covenant.

So you have 3 main groups of saved souls

1. Those from the O.T. who were not Israel. Adam, Able, Noah, Seth, Abraham, Issac, and the gentile nations. (All the saved souls raised with Jesus at the first resurrection.) ( The multitude that no man can count, MTNMCC, seen with Jesus in 96 AD) 

2. Those who are Israel from the first resurrection. Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, John the Baptist, etc.. (144,000)

3.Those who obey the new H.S. covenant and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. These are raised at the second resurrection, which is yet to happen.

-----------

The first 2 groups did not receive the gift of the H.S. during their lifetimes, so they are seen being "sealed" with the H.S. against the second death in Rev 7.

As Christians, we are already sealed with the gift of the H.S. against the second death.

When we get to heaven, those who have the gift of the Holy Spirit, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will be, much closer, we shall sit on the throne with Him. To speak of such things is done with great humility and respect and fear, not yet knowing the face of Jesus in His glory. 

 

All saved souls go to heaven, but once every soul is there, not all of them are in the same position as related to the throne of God, some are "closer", it seems.

We all have different positions in the gospel Pentecost kingdom, one body, different functions, some plant, some water, both are necessary, both bring glory to Jesus.

In the age of the kingdom on planet earth, it is necessary to be born again to enter heaven. Since the new covenant began on Pentecost and the gentiles were allowed in, it doesn't matter if you are an Israelite or a gentile, you must obey the gospel and receive the gift of the H.S. to be saved from then on, if aware.

The resurrection is a type of "renewal" of the living saved souls bringing them to God. The dead souls are brought before the throne, but are not renewed to be alive to God, they are lost souls. 

When we enter the present kingdom of God we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (H.S.) Acts 2:38. This was not available before Pentecost. This is one of the primary differences between the old and new covenant.  Sad, but I have to disagree Jesus BREATHED on them, and said "receive." They were all born again then, and received the Holy spirit INSIDE - in their newly created spirit person.

1 Corinthians 3:16  Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

 

2 Corinthians 1:22  Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts

 

These verses tell us of the Holy Spirit WITHIN: inside our human spirit.  The experience in Acts 2 is the Holy Spirit UPON - as the anointing.

Acts 1:8  But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come UPON you:...

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen UPON none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell ON  all them which heard the word.

Acts 11:15  And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell ON them, as on us at the beginning. (This verse proves that being "filled with the Spirit" [Acts 2] equals the spirit UPON.)

Acts 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came ON them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 

I will say this another way: When one is born again, they receive the INDWELLING Holy Spirit. But there is a SECOND work of Grace by  Jesus HImself which is the mighty "baptism in the Holy Spirit," which comes subsequent to the new birth, which is the anointing of God. Sadly most of the Christian world denies this second work of grace.  This anointing was available in the Old Covenant, but only on the prophet, priest and king (usually).  For the Born Again eperience, it was only made available after Jesus rose from the dead.

 

I am going to need further study on the Old Testament saints: if they got born again (Regenerated) after Jesus rose from the dead before they were able to go to heaven.

[abcdef]

38 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

When we enter the present kingdom of God we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (H.S.) Acts 2:38. This was not available before Pentecost. This is one of the primary differences between the old and new covenant.  Sad, but I have to disagree Jesus BREATHED on them, and said "receive." They were all born again then, and received the Holy spirit INSIDE - in their newly created spirit person.

1 Corinthians 3:16  Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

 

2 Corinthians 1:22  Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts

 

These verses tell us of the Holy Spirit WITHIN: inside our human spirit.  The experience in Acts 2 is the Holy Spirit UPON - as the anointing.

Acts 1:8  But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come UPON you:...

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen UPON none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell ON  all them which heard the word.

Acts 11:15  And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell ON them, as on us at the beginning. (This verse proves that being "filled with the Spirit" [Acts 2] equals the spirit UPON.)

Acts 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came ON them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 

I will say this another way: When one is born again, they receive the INDWELLING Holy Spirit. But there is a SECOND work of Grace by  Jesus HImself which is the mighty "baptism in the Holy Spirit," which comes subsequent to the new birth, which is the anointing of God. Sadly most of the Christian world denies this second work of grace.  This anointing was available in the Old Covenant, but only on the prophet, priest and king (usually).  For the Born Again eperience, it was only made available after Jesus rose from the dead.

 

I am going to need further study on the Old Testament saints: if they got born again (Regenerated) after Jesus rose from the dead before they were able to go to heaven.

John the Baptist and Jesus both said that the kingdom was at hand. Matt 3:2 and Matt 4:17. 

So there wasn't a kingdom of the gift/indwelling of the Holy Spirit until Pentecost. 

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The H.S. has been at work since the creation. It has shown itself in different ways.

The H.S. might fall on someone, but it is not the same as the indwelling gift of Acts 2:38.

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The O.T. saints are not born again and will not be. They are saved, but not born again into the kingdom under the new covenant that John and Jesus said was coming, only those from Pentecost onward have the gift.