Abomination

[Charlie744]

24 minutes ago, Duck said:

Satan Bound 1,000 Years

Rev. 20

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 

² He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 ³ and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.

But after these things he must be released for a little while.

does anybody else think he has recently been released?

Thank you for this..... unfortunately, I have not studied Revelation AT ALL. But before we get to interpreting Revelation I was hoping we might start to identify who or what is this "abomination" everyone is interested in and it's origin. 

For me it has it's origin in Daniel 9:27 and refers to the most horrible act man could possibly conceive in and act upon.... the crucifixion..... 

What are your thoughts?

Thanks, Charlie

[Justin Adams]

My thoughts:

Daniel is a done deal. Revelation is weird and much contested as to its pertinence and authenticity. We should be able to figure outside of the box that has Daniel and Revelation neatly placed inside by prophesy experts.

Think outside of that box for a moment and see what comes to mind.

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, Brother Duke said:

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

If we know when the daily sacrifice is taken away then 1290 days later we should be able to pinpoint the abomination.

I understand..... now would you mind telling me or responding to the possibility the sacrifice refers to the Messiah, the abomination - the most horrible act ever to occur on earth refers to His crucifixion.....

Before we would need to get to the 1,290 days we should stay with 9:27 perhaps..... thanks, Charlie

[Charlie744]

4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

My thoughts:

Daniel is a done deal. Revelation is weird and much contested as to its pertinence and authenticity. We should be able to figure outside of the box that has Daniel and Revelation neatly placed inside by prophesy experts.

Think outside of that box for a moment and see what comes to mind.

Thank you so much Justin!  And I do agree we need to think outside the box and for me I have tried to do just that..... succeed? That is certainly yet to be determined and since I have grossly departed from today's accepted interpretations I am simply too close to the pyramids.

So, out of the box - Daniel is speaking about the restoration of the Jews and the coming  of the Messiah.... for now I think we might be able to move on from most of the historical chapters in Daniel... and as we do, they move from the physical to the spiritual interpretations.

To me, Daniel speaks clearly about 3 separate periods: it reminds me of those Russian nested porcelain dolls that fit within each other..... Here (again, to me), we have a box within a box within a box (or a wheel within a wheel within a wheel) - depending on how you look at it.

We have the first and smallest box.... this is God's Plan of Restoration for the Jews. Almost the entire book is speaking about "restoration" and the individual pieces that must come together to complete this "restoration". The Jews are first with the final piece of THEIR PHYSICAL RESTORATION which begins with Daniel's prayer. Leviticus tells us there can be NO forgiveness until this prayer to God and even though there are no priests in Babylon, Daniel steps up to say this prayer to God for His forgiveness. Of course God is always forgiving and the return to Jerusalem begins. This first "box" represents Daniel's 70 week prophecy, where Daniel provides us with all the pieces that must be completed for this restoration. ALL physical pieces are indeed completed in this "restoration" as of the 69th week or 483 years.  So what is still to be fulfilled or what is missing?

Well, the "restoration" must have God's HOLY Spirit... the Shekinah Glory to fill the HOLY of HOLIES.... but the Ark was hidden from the Babylonians by Jeremiah and would never again be found.... for great reason. The coming Messiah would fulfill this final piece of the Jews "restoration" process.  We have the wonderful prayer in chapter 9 and then Daniel reveals the final pieces off the restoration process to us..... 

That is the first box and that might be enough for now ...... this is just too important to continue and not receive all the thoughts and comments- both pro or con .....

Thanks, Charlie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[popsthebuilder]

So I couldn't refer to creation being portrayed as GOD almighty?

 

[Justin Adams]

17 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

That is the first box and that might be enough for now

Supernaturally speaking (difficult as it is stuck in this temporal plane) Daniel accommodates all up to the end of Jeremiah's prophesy. The end of iniquity means the Israelis are forgiven and are back in the land now with a temple.

Then the Antiochus stuff; and after the resurrection the Roman stuff. 

Before the Roman stuff is God returning at Pentecost to Validate Yeshua's presence in the New Temple within the believers. They corporately and individually are called the Temple in Hebrews.

As the AGE progresses, much Tribulation befalls the early church and many millions of Israelis are later killed by the RCC and still later by Nazi death camps. The abominations are from the first century on down and the 'age' or 1000 years is a time span spoken in early times of a vast time in their future.

The falling away really began shortly after the warning was penned and if we see the resultant, we can marvel that 'if it were possible' the true believers would have been deceived. If ever there was an age of deception it is right now.

There is a lot of smoke and mirrors to do with this end times stuff.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, SONshine said:

Hey there, Charlie.  My understanding:

Daniel 11:31 
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

What is this abomination that “maketh desolate?”

It is the abominable one himself, the desolator, the vile person who stands in the holy place claiming he is God.  This he is the one Christ warned us about in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 when He referred us to the Book of Daniel for understanding.

Mark 13:14 
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)

Regarding how it is that the AOD takes away the daily sacrifice, we know that the first time the daily sacrifice (the morning and evening oblation) was taken away was at the crucifixion, which was when Jesus Christ Himself became our morning and evening oblation, our "daily sacrifice,” once and for all time.

However, when Satan, the false Messiah, appears, he takes away (through deception) the real Christ (our daily sacrifice) from the minds of those who are deceived and places himself there, causing those (unsealed) Christians to worship him and become his, which is to become spiritually dead (the falling away/the great apostasy).

Woe, woe, woe!!!

Thank you very much SONshine... ALWAYS nice when you respond.

 I do understand your interpretation and this is today’s accepted interpretation shared by so, so many, but it doesn’t work for me at all. Not that I didn’t try... When I started to study Daniel I had NO idea what I was getting into... I certainly heard the cute stories of this great metal man and Daniel and the lions den when I was a child but that was it.

 I read many of the scholarly commentaries and papers available on the net that we all have immediate access to... There interpretation became my interpretation... until it didn’t! 

As I moved through the later chapters I noticed some major disconnects from the earlier chapters. The theme or a consistency was spreading farther apart and, for me, all heck broke loose!

No matter how hard and long I tried to see what they were seeing and putting forth the more confused I became and .... Then I decided to go back to Daniel 1 and begin again and use their efforts / talent and expert knowledge and where it broke down I would focus on that issue and attempt to interpret it as though none existed.

Two of the most important things I learned is to completely ignore anything coming from Revelation, and do not concern myself with Daniel 11 until I completed Daniel 9 or any other earlier chapter. 

Don’t put the cart before the horse (Revelation ahead of Daniel), because much of Daniel’s interpretations come not from Daniel itself but from Revelation since so much of Daniel could and was not interpreted. 

So I would ask we might leave Matthew, Mark and Revelation in the future where it belongs interpretations until one interprets Daniel. All these verses in these different books must agree but Daniel is the key not Revelation.

Perhaps you might comment on my earlier thoughts / responses recently to Duck, Justin and Brother Duke?

Thanks, Charlie 

 

[Charlie744]

16 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Supernaturally speaking (difficult as it is stuck in this temporal plane) Daniel accommodates all up to the end of Jeremiah's prophesy. The end of iniquity means the Israelis are forgiven and are back in the land now with a temple.

Then the Antiochus stuff; and after the resurrection the Roman stuff. 

Before the Roman stuff is God returning at Pentecost to Validate Yeshua's presence in the New Temple within the believers. They corporately and individually are called the Temple in Hebrews.

As the AGE progresses, much Tribulation befalls the early church and many millions of Israelis are later killed by the RCC and still later by Nazi death camps. The abominations are from the first century on down and the 'age' or 1000 years is a time span spoken in early times of a vast time in their future.

The falling away really began shortly after the warning was penned and if we see the resultant, we can marvel that 'if it were possible' the true believers would have been deceived. If ever there was an age of deception it is right now.

There is a lot of smoke and mirrors to do with this end times stuff.

Wow, that was / is a lot to think about! And I could not begin to address most of it since you have spoken of specific events way intended the future.

I certainly agree with you... it is so clear just how much smoke and mirrors have been purposely constructed to confuse, corrupt and control the thinking of so many Christians.... with the primary actor being the “little horn” of Daniel- the papacy. 

If you do not mind, before we might discuss AE we could discuss chapter 9? 

I believe if we get 9 wrong we will get Daniel wrong and then Matthew and of course Revelation.

Charlie

[Justin Adams]

37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

If you do not mind, before we might discuss AE we could discuss chapter 9? 

Ok, I am not good a playing in others' sand-box am I? Being a lateral thinker I tend to jump over details and see the overall system. It is how I troubleshoot.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

Ok, I am not good a playing in others' sand-box am I? Being a lateral thinker I tend to jump over details and see the overall system. It is how I troubleshoot.

Justin, I deeply apologize for asking you or anyone to "follow along". There are more than a few reasons for this..... and the most important one MAYBE so we might interpret Daniel in the order it was given to us.... first, by chapter within Daniel and then of course, after Daniel is completed, how it does or does not fit with Matthew or Revelation.

As I mentioned, I believe much of Daniel has been interpreted by Revelation BEFORE Daniel was interpreted and this, to me, has created much misinterpretation.

And of course because I could not "keep up with" or "accept / continue with" the accepted interpretations in the latter chapters of Daniel, I had to go back and start over in chapter 1 and try to ensure my interpretations might stay consistent throughout the book.... 

I certainly understand my interpretations are far from the "accepted ones" and it might help anyone to see how and when my interpretations would depart from them .... this will also allow me to see how and when others interpret those verses that differ from mine... but I could not do this if Revelation and other verses outside of Daniel are thrown in before we complete Daniel.

If this request / approach is uncomfortable or unacceptable to you or anyone I will certainly back out .... 

I guess I might try and justify this overall approach by trying to look at Daniel as though Paul or the Jews of his time would / might have looked at it... no Matthew or Revelation yet.... but God would have Daniel write His book / prophecies for the Jews first and to hopefully find the Messiah in Daniel before His coming.

No offense intended at any level and no offense taken if this is just the wrong approach to ask .... Charlie