Futurism

[Justin Adams]

10 minutes ago, debrakay said:

my simple ways are enough for one other.

We are all on a similar footing. Some perhaps are unaware of what they do not know. Others look around as they scale the mountain of knowledge and see more and more they did not know the further they ascend.

[Retrobyter]

 

6 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Jesus, The Son, Never stopped being God. 

Shalom, Riverwalker.

There's a bit of a technicality here: First, Yeshua`, the Son of God, wasn't named "Yeshua`" until He was made flesh at His conception. Second, Yeshua` DID lose some of the attributes of God in making Him a man. Third, in the process, He BECAME "the SON of God." He was not called that title until He became a man; He was initially called "God the WORD." The prophecies about Him only showed that He WOULD be called "the Son of God." And, just for good measure, He is NEVER called "God the Son!"

Let's put it this way: Yeshua` never stopped being the Word! However, He changed from being God to being the Son of God. As such, He was in the preplanned and ideal position to be the Mediator between God and mankind.

As far as I can tell from Scripture, there are at least two Persons in the Godhead: The Father and the Son. 

There's a little bit of a problem with the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God). Yeshua` said that His Father, God, is a "Spirit" (John 4:24), and God, Yeshua`s Father, said, "Be ye holy for I am holy" (1 Peter 1:16). So, how is the Father different than the "Holy Spirit of God?" Is God, the Father of our Lord Yeshua`, the Holy Spirit as well? OR, does He GIVE of His Spirit to men as One gives a part of Himself to others? It's difficult in all cases to see the Holy Spirit as a separate Person of the Godhead. About the best location that shows Him as a separate Person is when Yeshua` promises that He would ask His Father to send a Comforter:

John 14:16-26 (KJV)

16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." 

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot,

"Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"

23 Jesus answered and said unto him,

"If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 "These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Yeshua`, still the Word but not with God's attribute of omnipresence, being the SON of God, left the earth and shall come back again one day. In the meantime, His Father, God, has given us the Holy Spirit ("Ghost") as "another Comforter." He's been said to be "with us for ever!" (vs. 16.) The Greek of that phrase is "meth' humoon eis ton aioona." "Meth'" is a contracted form of "meta" meaning "with" when used with the genitive form "humoon," the genitive, plural, second-person pronoun, translated "you." "Eis" means "into," "ton" is a form of the definite article, "the," and "aioona" is the accusative, masculine, singular form of the word "aioon" meaning an "age." Thus, it translates directly to "with you (pl.) into the age."

The question is: Which "age" is He talking about? Well, I believe that there were/are three ages: That age before the Flood, the age from the Flood to the Fire yet to come - the age in which we are living, and the age after the Fire. So, I believe that He was talking about into the NEXT age, after the Fire.

[Your closest friendnt]

 

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

1.  The fact that I am willing to discuss this matter it does not mean for others to come to their own conclusion TO STEREOTYPED ME as to what I believe about Jesus because I enter this endeavor as a means to discover what Jesus Christ says about himself. 

2.  This question cannot be answer with clarity as it is because in any answer whether in a yes or in a no they will be a number of different meanings and the group that agrees with yes they will disagree on a further examination of what and who God is. 

2(a)   Both answers can have multiple meanings and they may start with an agreement and they may disagree on further examination as to what they mean when they said yes.

3.  Jesus is not like anyone of us who did not pre-exist before our conception. 

4.  Before we answer the question at hand we have to look at the same time in the question whether or not Jesus was a man or not.

5.  This is of paramount importance because Jesus Christ is the Mediator between Man and God.

6.  Because from the scriptures we learn that God could not be a mediator between God and man. 

7.  If that was possible then it could have happened before the Cross and before the Law and the Temple. 

8.  It did not happen through Abraham, it did not happen through Moses and it did not happen through Aaron. And not through John the Baptist. 

9.  It can only happen through to what Moses said, through the one whom God will raised up, someone from among your own people, someone from you, him to follow in what he says to you.

10.  The most important question is who will shed the blood of the new Covenant. 

11.  Who is eligible to shed the blood of the new Covenant? 

12.  Who is the Lamb of God? Who will fulfill the promise God gave to Abraham? 

13.  And to your question,  what is important, is it what the scriptures say about the question at hand or what any other one of say. 

Can we have the answer through scripture?  

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

That is incorrect. 

 

You may say, "No, I do not believe Jesus is God," Yes, I do believe Jesus is God," or "To be honest and forthcoming, I do not know with any confidence whether Jesus is God," but to say the the question cannot be answered is incorrect. You are, of course, completely free to believe things that are incorrect, such as the belief the question cannot be answered. 

 

I did not ask because I wish to digress from the topic of this op and get into a conversation over the divinity of Christ. I asked the question so that I and every other poster reading the exchange can and will know where you stand and to what degree all your posts originate in the premise the question of Jesus' divinity cannot be answered. No judgment on my part about your view. Just a greater awareness that this is one of your presuppositional views upon which all else is built. Some here have an understanding of God and Christianity built on the understanding Jesus is God. Others here firmly believe Jesus is not God or that Jesus is some aspect of God but not His entirety. If we are to take you at your word then we now understand you to be someone who believes the question cannot be answered. Have I read your post correctly? If not, then do please correct me where I have erred, clarify your position, and/or answer the question asked. 

 

Do you understand Jesus to be God?

 

[Riverwalker]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

 

Shalom, Riverwalker.

There's a bit of a technicality here: First, Yeshua`, the Son of God, wasn't named "Yeshua`" until He was made flesh at His conception. Second, Yeshua` DID lose some of the attributes of God in making Him a man. Third, in the process, He BECAME "the SON of God." He was not called that title until He became a man; He was initially called "God the WORD." The prophecies about Him only showed that He WOULD be called "the Son of God." And, just for good measure, He is NEVER called "God the Son!"

Let's put it this way: Yeshua` never stopped being the Word! However, He changed from being God to being the Son of God. As such, He was in the preplanned and ideal position to be the Mediator between God and mankind.

As far as I can tell from Scripture, there are at least two Persons in the Godhead: The Father and the Son. 

There's a little bit of a problem with the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God). Yeshua` said that His Father, God, is a "Spirit" (John 4:24), and God, Yeshua`s Father, said, "Be ye holy for I am holy" (1 Peter 1:16). So, how is the Father different than the "Holy Spirit of God?" Is God, the Father of our Lord Yeshua`, the Holy Spirit as well? OR, does He GIVE of His Spirit to men as One gives a part of Himself to others? It's difficult in all cases to see the Holy Spirit as a separate Person of the Godhead. About the best location that shows Him as a separate Person is when Yeshua` promises that He would ask His Father to send a Comforter:

John 14:16-26 (KJV)

16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." 

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot,

"Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"

23 Jesus answered and said unto him,

"If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 "These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Yeshua`, still the Word but not with God's attribute of omnipresence, being the SON of God, left the earth and shall come back again one day. In the meantime, His Father, God, has given us the Holy Spirit ("Ghost") as "another Comforter." He's been said to be "with us for ever!" (vs. 16.) The Greek of that phrase is "meth' humoon eis ton aioona." "Meth'" is a contracted form of "meta" meaning "with" when used with the genitive form "humoon," the genitive, plural, second-person pronoun, translated "you." "Eis" means "into," "ton" is a form of the definite article, "the," and "aioona" is the accusative, masculine, singular form of the word "aioon" meaning an "age." Thus, it translates directly to "with you (pl.) into the age."

The question is: Which "age" is He talking about? Well, I believe that there were/are three ages: That age before the Flood, the age from the Flood to the Fire yet to come - the age in which we are living, and the age after the Fire. So, I believe that He was talking about into the NEXT age, after the Fire.

Jesus did not lose who He is, which is God, by whom all things were created 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 

What he did is he humbled himself to become man, and to die for our sins, and in doing so he put away the expression and power of His deity.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

 All the miracles He did in the power of the Holy Spirit, the same Holy Spirit that lives in us.

John 14:12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you [c]ask anything in My name, I will do it.

It should not surprise us that the Very Nature of God (His triune nature) should be beyond our grasp.  He is God, we are not.

I do find the  nature of the relationship with each "Person" Interesting

The Father, Jehovah was God above us

The Son, Jesus  was God among us

The Holy Spirit is God within us.

Each manifestation drawing closer to man.

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

 

Shalom, Riverwalker.

There's a bit of a technicality here: First, Yeshua`, the Son of God, wasn't named "Yeshua`" until He was made flesh at His conception. Second, Yeshua` DID lose some of the attributes of God in making Him a man. Third, in the process, He BECAME "the SON of God." He was not called that title until He became a man; He was initially called "God the WORD." The prophecies about Him only showed that He WOULD be called "the Son of God." And, just for good measure, He is NEVER called "God the Son!"

Let's put it this way: Yeshua` never stopped being the Word! However, He changed from being God to being the Son of God. As such, He was in the preplanned and ideal position to be the Mediator between God and mankind.

As far as I can tell from Scripture, there are at least two Persons in the Godhead: The Father and the Son. 

There's a little bit of a problem with the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God). Yeshua` said that His Father, God, is a "Spirit" (John 4:24), and God, Yeshua`s Father, said, "Be ye holy for I am holy" (1 Peter 1:16). So, how is the Father different than the "Holy Spirit of God?" Is God, the Father of our Lord Yeshua`, the Holy Spirit as well? OR, does He GIVE of His Spirit to men as One gives a part of Himself to others? It's difficult in all cases to see the Holy Spirit as a separate Person of the Godhead. About the best location that shows Him as a separate Person is when Yeshua` promises that He would ask His Father to send a Comforter:

John 14:16-26 (KJV)

16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." 

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot,

"Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"

23 Jesus answered and said unto him,

"If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 "These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Yeshua`, still the Word but not with God's attribute of omnipresence, being the SON of God, left the earth and shall come back again one day. In the meantime, His Father, God, has given us the Holy Spirit ("Ghost") as "another Comforter." He's been said to be "with us for ever!" (vs. 16.) The Greek of that phrase is "meth' humoon eis ton aioona." "Meth'" is a contracted form of "meta" meaning "with" when used with the genitive form "humoon," the genitive, plural, second-person pronoun, translated "you." "Eis" means "into," "ton" is a form of the definite article, "the," and "aioona" is the accusative, masculine, singular form of the word "aioon" meaning an "age." Thus, it translates directly to "with you (pl.) into the age."

The question is: Which "age" is He talking about? Well, I believe that there were/are three ages: That age before the Flood, the age from the Flood to the Fire yet to come - the age in which we are living, and the age after the Fire. So, I believe that He was talking about into the NEXT age, after the Fire.

Shalom RB, 

There is a risk in asking these kinds of questions. 

The answer is always yes, and my answer is yes which I have answer before when I gave a like to  someone when he said Jesus is God but they do not count it , they  need a confession. 

There is a risk in being stereotyped as a sheep in wolves clothing wanting to deceived and trouble the elect.

You may be put on the list and a record will be kept of everything you said. You will have a file and your name will be included in the book of those who denied that Jesus is God. And the Trinity. 

This and the Trinity are not discuss, they are put out to attract and identify those who deceived by the snares of the Devil. 

 

 to 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

@Josheb, I believe Jesus is God all my life, I was born in a family who believe Hesus is God. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[leah777]

People either believe God and Jesus and holy Spirit are one, or they do not.

No trick, or trap is there. Just simple statement, which we agree to when we join. Trinity or not trinity. 

I believe in the Trinity.

[Retrobyter]

On 4/3/2021 at 12:54 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

Shalom to you too,

This is my thought, first we know when the Lamb of God was slain and the Lamb of God knows that also. 

To someone who insist (if I understood correctly that actually it happened before the foundation of earth and the blood of the New Covenant was shed that time there are a number of questions that need to be answer. 

Yes I asked who was the one who slew him. 

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

Well, we do know who ultimately slew Him:

Isaiah 53: (KJV)

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD (Hebrew: YHWH) to bruise him; HE (YHWH God) hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 HE (YHWH God) shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant (Yeshua`) justify many; for he (Yeshua`) shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he (Yeshua`) bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Verse 10 tells us it was God the Father who slew His Son, Yeshua`. The thing you might consider, though, is that it was just a DONE DEAL before the Creation, not that it was actually performed at that time. Chiseled in stone, so to speak, that would not be removed from God's Plan, because we also have this:

Galatians 4:1-7 (KJV)

1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, "Abba," "Father." 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

 

On 4/3/2021 at 12:54 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

And we must have many other things that only are found at the time of creation of man. 

And if the Lamb was actually Slain [at] that time then what about Jesus and the Covenant with Abraham, with the question .

And what about Jesus the Lamb of God descending in the heart of the earth and Abraham knowing of that day.

That's what I'm talking about. God had "LOCKED IN" THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF the Lamb before the foundation of the world, but it was not actually performed until the time came!

On 4/3/2021 at 12:54 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

I asked because I was seeking to define the truth meaning of Rev 13:8 thinking that is taken out of context from 13: 1-7.

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

"To worship" in verse 4 are occurrences of proskuneoo:

4352 proskuneoo (pros-koo-neh'-o). From pros (meaning "to" or "toward") and a probable derivative of kuon (meaning "to kiss," like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore)
-- worship.

It means to crouch to someone or to prostrate oneself in homage to someone. We also use the words "to bow the knee to" someone, but ... it's MORE than that! It's a position that shows COMPLETE submission to the authority! And, this word is found twice in verse 4 as "prosekuneesan," meaning "they prostrated themselves in homage to" the "beast." These people are those whose names are NOT written in the Lamb's book of life.

It's only the LAMB who was "slain from the foundation of the world." The names of those who are written "in the book of life" (Greek: en too biblioo tees zooees = "in the papyrus-roll/scroll of-the life") were not written then.

[Justin Adams]

Daniel (again)

While Christians are generally united in the belief that the “seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks”, that is, 69 weeks (483 years) measured unto “Messiah”, concerning the final week of the prophecy, the 70th week, there are two entirely different interpretations that are held today the FUTURIST interpretation and the FULFILLED interpretation.

The futurist interpretation is that a huge gap of 2,000 years or so separates the 70th week from the other 69 weeks that measured unto Messiah. The fulfilled interpretation is that no gap is to be placed between the 69th week and the 70th-that the 70th week followed the 69th in logical sequence.

The futurist interpretation is that the 70th week refers to the Antichrist who will make a covenant with the Jews. This covenant will allow them to offer sacrifices in a “rebuilt” temple at Jerusalem for seven years, but after three and a half years he will break this covenant and cause the sacrifices to cease. The fulfilled interpretation, on the other hand, is that the 70th week refers to Christ and that the causing of the sacrifices to cease was accomplished at Calvary when Christ became the final and perfect sacrifice for sin.

What differences exist here! One says the 70th week is future; the other says it is fulfilled! One says there is a huge gap between the 69th and the 70th weeks; the other requires no gap. One says the 70th week pertains to Antichrist; the other to Jesus Christ! In view of such glaring differences, both of these interpretations simply cannot be correct.

We believe the fulfilled interpretation is the correct view; that the 69 weeks measured “unto Messiah”; that in the midst of the 70th week after three and a half years of ministry, he was cut off in death; that this sacrifice, being the perfect sacrifice, caused other sacrifices to cease in God’ s plan. Let us now notice step by step all of the basic parts of the 70 weeks prophecy and how these things were fulfilled.

I. JERUSALEM WAS TO BE RESTORED. We have already seen the scriptures that explain this.

2. THE STREET AND WALL WERE TO BE REBUILT IN TROUBLOUS TIMES. We have seen in the book of Ezra some of the troubles that confronted the people in those years of rebuilding.

3. THE MOST HOLY WAS TO BE ANOINTED. We believe this reference is to Jesus Christ. Gabriel announced to Mary: “The HOLY thing that shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35). Peter referred to him as “the HOLY ONE” (Acts 3:14). John referred to him as “the HOLY ONE” (1 John 2:20). Even demons had to recognize him as “The HOLY ONE of God” (Mark 1:24).

David spoke concerning Christ: neither wilt thou suffer thine HOLY ONE to see corruption” (Acts 2:27). In Revelation 3:7 he is called “HOLY” and the heavenly creatures rest not from saying: “HOLY, HOLY, HOLY” before this one “which was, and is, and is to come” (Revelations 4:8).

From the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem unto Messiah was to be 483 years. When this time was fulfilled, those who knew this prophecy were expecting the appearance of the Messiah, that is, the Christ. (Christ is the Greek form of the Hebrew word Messiah.) Thus when John came baptizing, “the people were in EXPECTATION, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ or not” (Luke 3:15). John plainly told them that he was not the Christ óhe was only the forerunner. When Jesus appeared on the scene, John cried: “Behold the Lamb of God”! The time had now come that Jesus should be “made manifest to Israel” (John 1:29 31). He was then baptized and when he had prayed, “the heaven was opened. And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased” (Luke 3:21,22).

He had appeared to Israel right on time! Thus Jesus, in evident reference to the time prophecy of Daniel, said: “The TIME is fulfilled” (Mark 1:15) and as the Messiah, the Christ, the “anointed one”, he preached the gospel. When he entered the synagogue of Nazareth, he announced: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he hath ANOINTED me” (Luke 4:18-22). Acts 4:27 mentioned Jesus as the “holy” one that the Lord “ANOINTED.” And Peter mentioned that “God ANOINTED Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost… who went about doing good, healing all who were oppressed of the devil” (Acts 10:38).

Daniel’s prophecy revealed that the time period unto the Messiah would be 69 weeks (483 years). This measured to the time when Jesus was baptized and anointed to begin his ministry as the Messiah, the Christ, the “Anointed One.

4. MESSIAH WAS TO BE CUT OFF. The 69 weeks (7 plus 62) were to measure unto Messiah “and AFTER” the 69 weeks “shall Messiah be cut off.” Now “AFTER” 69 weeks does not and cannot mean “in” or “during” the 69 weeks! If Messiah was to be cut off AFTER the 69 weeks, there is only one week left in which he could have been “cut off” the 70th week! after three and a half years of ministry.

The term “cut off” implies that Messiah would not die a natural death; he would be murdered! So also had Isaiah prophesied using an equivalent word: “He was cut off out of the land of the living” (Isaiah 53:8).

The details about how Messiah was “cut off” are given in the gospels.

5. “TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION”, or literally, “to finish transgression.” As Jesus was dying, he cried: “It is FINISHED.” At Calvary, Jesus finished transgression by becoming sin for us. No future sacrifice can ever finish transgression; it was finished at Calvary (Hebrews 9:15). “He was wounded for our TRANSGRESSIONS” (Isaiah 53:5).

6. “TO MAKE AN END OF SINS.” Here the basic thought is repeated. If we understand the glorious significance of what was accomplished at Calvary, we know that here there was truly an end made of sins.

Jesus, who came “to save his people from their sins”, accomplished this when he “put away sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Mt. 1:21; Heb. 9:26). “It is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins… But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever…hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified…And their sins… remember no more” (Hebrews 10:4-11). The old system of sacrifices could never make an end of sins, but Christ by the sacrifice of himself did make an end of sins, even as the prophecy had said!

John announced him as “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world” (John 1:29). “Christ died for our sins” (1 Corinthians 15:3). He “bare our sins in his own body on the tree” (l Peter 2:24) and “hath once suffered for sins” (3:18). “He was manifested to take away our sins” (l John 3:5). This “end of sins” was accomplished at Calvary.

All of this does not mean, of course, that right at this point men quit sinning. This was not the case. But what the scripture does mean is that at Calvary the eternal sacrifice for sin was made, so that any and allópast, present, or future ówho will be forgiven of sins will be forgiven because our Lord’ s death almost 2,000 years ago made an “end of sins”!

7. “TO MAKE RECONCILIATION FOR INIQUITY.” The word reconciliation used here is the same word that is used so frequently in the book of Leviticus where it is rendered “to make atonement.” This, too, was part of our Lord’s redemptive work. Surely “reconciliation” is a present reality because of Calvary!

Jesus, “our merciful and faithful high priest” made “RECONCILIATION for the sins of the people” (Hebrews 2:17). “Having made peace through the blood…to RECONCILE all things unto himself…and you, that were sometimes alienated…hath he RECONCILED…through death” (Colossians. 1:20-22; Ephesians. 2:16).

“God was in Christ, RECONCILING the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of RECONCILIATION” (2 Corinthians 5:19). Plainly, “reconciliation for iniquity” was accomplished by Jesus, for he “gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all INIQUITY” (Titus 2:14), and “the Lord hath laid on him the INIQUITY of us all” (Isaiah 53:6).

8. ”TO BRING IN EVER LASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS.” This too was accomplished by the redemptive work of Christ! The great redemption chapter of Isaiah 53 had prophesied: “My righteous servant shall make many RIGHTEOUS.” Paul put it this way: “By the righteousness of one…shall many be made RIGHTEOUS… unto eternal life by Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:17-21). He who came “to fulfill all righteousness” (Matthew 3:15) and who “loved righteousness, and hated iniquity”, was “anointed” of God (Hebrews. 1:9) and made unto us wisdom, and RIGHTEOUSNESS, and sanctification, and redemption” (1 Corinthians. 1:30). “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto RIGHTEOUSNESS” (1 Peter 2:24). “Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God…through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood to declare his RIGHTEOUSNESS for the remission of sins” (Romans 3:21-26). “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in him” (2 Corinthians 5:21). “Everyone that doeth RIGHTEOUSNESS is born of him” (1 John 2:29).

Taking all of these verses into consideration, we ask: Did Christ in his coming to earth provide righteousness through his redemptive work? All Christians acknowledge that he did. We ask then: Was not this righteousness that he brought in everlasting? Of course. Surely no Christians would deny that the righteousness of Christ is “everlasting righteousness.”

“By his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION ” everlasting righteousness” for us” (Hebrews. 9:12). This eternal or everlasting righteousness is contrasted to the old sacrifices under the law which were only of a temporary nature. But Christ, once for all time, offered himself thus providing, as the prophecy of Daniel had said, “everlasting righteousness.”

One only has to read the great redemption passages of Romans, Corinthians, Colossians, Ephesians, and Hebrews to see how an “end” of transgressions and sins, “reconciliation for iniquity”, and “everlasting righteousness” were all accomplished at Calvary by our Lord Jesus Christ!

In view of this, we see no basis for the futurist teaching that none of these things have yet been fulfilled, but are to be linked with a supposed seventieth week at the end of the age! To teach such is contradictory and tends to take away from the glory of that great redemption of Calvary which so beautifully and completely fulfilled these prophecies!

9. “TO SEAL UP VISION AND PROPHECY”, or literally, “to seal up vision and prophet.” The use of the metaphor “to seal” is derived from the ancient custom of attaching a seal to a document to show that it was genuine (See 1 Kings 21:8; Jeremiah. 32:10, 11; cf. John 6:27; 1 Corinthians. 9:2). Christ “sealed” Old Testament prophecy by fulfilling what was written of him.

Repeatedly we read concerning him: “…that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets.” Acts 3:18 says: “Those things which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer he hath so fulfilled:” Truly Jesus fulfilled what was written in the visions and prophecies of the Old Testament concerning him, and thus he “sealed” them showed that they were genuine. ‘They are they”, he said, “which testify of me” (John 5:39). “All the prophets and the law prophesied until John” (Matthew 11:13), then John presented Jesus as he that was to be “made manifest to Israel.” Jesus was the one that was to come and we look for none other. He is the fulfillment of vision and prophecy.

10. “HE SHALL CONFIRM THE COVENANT.” When Jesus instituted the Lord’ s supper, representative of his shed blood for the remission of sins, he said: ‘This is my blood of the new testament [covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). The word “testament” here and the word “covenant” are translated from exactly the same word in the New Testament. “How much more shall the blood of Christ…purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause, he is the mediator of the new testament [covenant]” (Hebrews 9:14,15).

Jesus is called the “mediator of the new covenant” (Hebrews. 8:6), the “messenger of the covenant” (Malachi. 3:1), and his shed blood is called “the blood of the everlasting covenant” (Hebrews. 12:24). Our Lord Jesus is the one who confirmed the covenant through his redemptive sacrifice at Calvary. And how beautifully this harmonizes with what we have already seen.

11. “HE SHALL CAUSE THE SACRIFICE AND THE OBLATION TO CEASE.” This too was fulfilled in the death of Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament, as we have mentioned, sacrifices were repeatedly made. Each of these was but a mere type looking forward to the time when the perfect sacrifice, the Lamb of God, would be offered. Once this would be accomplished, God would no longer require or accept any other sacrifice.

The perfect sacrifice was Jesus Christ. The old system of repeated sacrifices (types) could only end at Calvary when Christ became the perfect, eternal, and final sacrifice (See Hebrews. 9 and 10). In addition to Calvary’s sacrifice, “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews. 10: 18, 26).

For a few more years, the Jews continued their sacrifices, but these were not recognized by God. Such cannot be termed sacrifices in the true scriptural sense of the word, for the death of Christ provided the perfect, and therefore, the final sacrifice for sins forever.

Further proof that this was fulfilled in Christ is seen in the time element, for the prophecy said that sacrifice would cease in the middle of the week the 70th week. This was when Christ died, for the 69 weeks measured unto Messiah and his death came after a ministry of three and a half years.

That this was the length of our Lord’s ministry may be seen by a study of the gospel according to John in which mention is made of four Passovers that occurred during our Lord’s ministry: John 2:13, 5:1 (see Footnote 1), 6:4, 13:1. Eusebius, a Christian writer of the fourth century, pointed these things out: “Now the whole period of our Saviour’s teaching and working of miracles is said to have been three-and-a-half years, which is half a week. John the evangelist, in his Gospel, makes this clear to the attentive.” (Footnote 2)

And so, after three and a half years of ministry as the Christ the anointed one Jesus was cut off in death, in the middle of the 70th week of seven years. As Augustine said: “Daniel even defined the time when Christ was to come and suffer by the exact date.” (Footnote 3)

Understanding this, we can now see real significance in certain New Testament statements which also speak of a definite established time at which Jesus would die. For example, we read: “They sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come” (John 7:30). In John 2:4, Jesus said, “Mine hour is not yet come.” On another occasion, he said, “My time is not yet come” (John 7:6). Then just prior to his betrayal and death, he said, “My time is at hand” (Matthew 26:18), and finally, ‘”the hour is come” (John 17:1; Matthew 26:45).

These and other verses clearly show that there was a definite time in the plan of God when Jesus would die. He came to fulfill the scriptures, and there is only one Old Testament scripture which predicted the time of his death the prophecy which stated that Messiah would be cut off in the midst of the 70th week at the close of three and a half years of ministry! How perfectly the prophecy was fulfilled in Christ!

But those who say that the confirming of the covenant and causing sacrifices to cease in the midst of the 70th week refers to a future Antichrist, completely destroy this beautiful fulfillment and are at a complete loss to show where in the Old Testament the time of our Lord’s death was predicted.

The prophecy of Daniel 9 stated that Messiah would confirm the covenant (or would cause the covenant to prevail) with many of Daniel’s people for the “week” or seven years. We ask then, when Christ came, was his ministry directed in a special way to Daniel’s people óto “Israel ” (Daniel. 9:20)? Yes!

John introduced him as he “that should be made manifest to ISRAEL” (John 1:31). “I am not sent”, Jesus said, “but unto the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL” (Matthew. 15:24). And when he first sent out his apostles, they were directed: “Go not into the way of the Gentiles…go rather to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL” (Matthew 10:5,6).

The first half of the “week”, the time of our Lord’s ministry, was definitely directed toward ISRAEL. But what about the second half the final three and a half years of the prophecy was it also linked with Israel? Did the disciples continue to preach for the duration of the remaining three and a half years (as Christ’s representatives) especially to Daniel’s people to Israel? Yes, they did!

Jesus had told the disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature (Mark. 16:15; Matthew.28:19; Acts 1:8), YET and this is significant after Christ ascended, the disciples still at first preached only to Israel! Why? We know of only one prophecy which would indicate that this was to be the course followed. It is the prophecy of the 70 weeks which implied that after the death of Messiah there would still be three and a half years that pertained to Israel!

Bearing this in mind, we can now understand at least one reason why the gospel went “to the Jew first” and then later to the Gentiles (Romans. 1:16). Peter preached shortly after Pentecost: “Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant… unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities” (Acts 3:25, 26). “It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you” (Acts 13:46).

In person, Christ came to Israel during the first half of the “week” three and a half years. Through the disciples for the three and a half years that remained his message still went to Israel, “the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following” (Mark. 16:20). In a very real sense of the word, the ministry of the disciples was a continuation of the ministry of Christ.

Then came the conversion of Cornelius which completely changed the missionary outreach, outlook, and ministry of the church. Though the New Testament does not give an exact date when this happened, apparently the time for a special exclusive blessing upon Daniel’s people had drawn to a close. The gospel which had gone first to the Jews was now to take its full mission to be preached to all people of all nations!

This time of changeover was marked by a number of supernatural events. Cornelius received a heavenly visitation. An angel appeared to him and told him to call for Peter “who shall tell thee words whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved” (Acts 11:14). God showed Peter a vision which caused him to know that the gospel was now to go to the Gentiles and not to Israelites only. All of these things were timed perfectly showing that God’s hand was accomplishing a definite purpose.

Returning to Jerusalem, Peter explained what had happened. “When they heard these things, they… glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18). From this very point, more and more, there was a turning to the Gentiles with the gospel message. God’s measurement of 490 years pertaining in a special way to Israel had obviously been completed.

And finally,

12. THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM AND THE TEMPLE. This part of the prophecy was not dated within the framework of the 70 weeks as was the time of the appearance of Messiah to Israel, the time of his death, etc. Nevertheless, living on this side of the fulfillment, we know that the predicted destruction found fulfillment in 70 A.D. when the armies of Titus brought the city to desolation.

With Adam Clarke we say: “The whole of this prophecy from the times and corresponding events has been fulfilled to the very letter.” (Clarke’s Commentary, note on Daniel 9)

(Footnotes:)

1. In this verse the feast is not mentioned by name. However, by taking John 4:35 about the “four months” into consideration, it is possible to determine that this was the feast of the passover (See Boutflower, page 208).

2. Eusebius, The Proof of the Gospel, bk. 8, chapter 2.

3. quoted in The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, vol. 1, page 487.

[Justin Adams]

19 minutes ago, Josheb said:

That's a lengthy post (I suspect many won't bother with it) but it should be posted as a separate op so folks can bookmark it and use it as a reference. Not sure I agree with every detail but the messianic nature of the Daniel text and the fact the Messiah came can't be denied. 

 

(might be a good time to put on your bulletproof vest, Justin)

I agree with your take but decided against commenting/adding.

It is difficult to cover all bases with a short post.