Is the Trump of God the Seventh Trumpet?

[Uriah]

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

The command to build the wall and street to Messiah will start the future 70 weeks, Messiah will be "Cut Off" when the building stops, as armies surround the city,

A historical fact is that the rebuilding was done in that 7 "weeks" period after the edict was given to rebuild. Ya can't change history.

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Messiah will be "Cut Off" when the building stops, as armies surround the city

What it really says: "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, H3772 but not for himself..."

Not for himself, He died for US!

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

the scripture clearly teaches "Cut Off" is armies stopping the building to Messiah

Great! Copy and paste the scripture that clearly says this.

[truth7t7]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

What I'm saying is the 3.5 years is exactly half of 7 years. That would make a 'week' a 'week of years' or 7 years, not 7 days. This is inconsistent with the idea of literal days for a total of 490 evening and morning 24 hours periods. 

I don't follow your teachings and beliefs, don't add your opinions to my words and belief "Please", scripture doesn't teach weeks of years or a 7 year tribulation

My Belief "Future": 70 literal weeks or 490 days, the 70 weeks will start when a future command is given to build the wall/street in Jerusalem

In the final 70th week the antichrist will be revealed to the world in Jerusalem proclaiming to be Messiah God, as armies surround the city in Daniel's AOD stopping the building, the 70th week comes to "COMPLETION"

After the 70th literal week is "completed", the 3.5 year tribulation starts

I don't believe scripture teaches a 7 year tribulation, or weeks of years as you believe and teach

70 literal weeks completed, then a 3.5 year tribulation to follow, simple, clear, and easy to understand

Yes the church will have a 70 week warning, watching the command to build in Jerusalem and the literal building of the wall/street taking place for 62 weeks

The antichrist being revealed, and armies surrounding Jerusalem will be just around the corner

Jesus Is The Lord

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by truth7t7

[WilliamL]

On 8/3/2022 at 3:11 AM, Diaste said:

The aorist is active in Rev 6:17 so the action is happening or set to happen. The active aorist is not a past tense. The same tense is used in Rev 11:18, also active aorist, also about to happen, not a past tense.

You simply do not understand the grammar of Greek verb tense structure.

Active voice, from blueletterbible.org:

" Definition of "Active"

" Represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "Jesus returned to Capernaum" Jesus performs the action. "

Active voice says nothing about the when of an action, as you seem to think.

The when of the action derives from the tense of a verb; here being 2nd aorist tense: simple past tense.

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, Uriah said:

A historical fact is that the rebuilding was done in that 7 "weeks" period after the edict was given to rebuild. Ya can't change history.

What it really says: "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, H3772 but not for himself..."

Not for himself, He died for US!

Great! Copy and paste the scripture that clearly says this.

We Disagree

The 70 literal weeks are "Future" and the scripture states "Cut Off" and that has no relationship to Jesus dying as you claim

Scripture clearly teaches armies will surround Jerusalem and stop the 62 week building project of the wall/street, this is when Messiah is "Cut Off"

Thanks for the response, Jesus Is The Lord!

[Uriah]

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree

Obviously we do. but I am trying to at least understand your belief. Some details would help.

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

The 70 literal weeks are "Future"

So do you belief that after a decree (found in the bible) there was NO temple etc. rebuilt that happened to match the first 7 sevens (weeks)?

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

"Cut Off" and that has no relationship to Jesus dying as you claim

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h3772/kjv/wlc/0-1/

Dan 9:24-

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Did any of these things happen yet?

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't think so. Matt 24 and Mark 13 both agree the A of D is immediately followed by GT:

"For at that time there will be great tribulation" - Matt 24 BSB

"For those will be days of tribulation unmatched" - Mark 13 BSB

Daniel tells us the A of D is the middle of the week. If the A of D is the middle of the week and GT ensues as a condition on the earth "at that time" and "those will be days" then GT is in the last half of the week. Don't see how to get around that. 

Shalom, Diaste.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that "the A of D is immediately followed by GT." That's not exactly true. As I said, the "Great Tribulation" started earlier by a couple of years. That's why both Yeshua` in the Olivet Discourse and an angel sent to warn the young church in Jerusalem gave the message to "get out of town" in 66 A.D.

The Greek word "thlipsis" means "pressure," particularly that as with a wave of persecution. Both unbelieving Jews and believing Jews ("Christians") were HUNTED by the opposition, which was a combination of Jewish zealots and Roman soldiers.

Those who were warned got out of the area in the "lull before the storm."

They were warned against someone making the claim, "I am the Messiah," even if they could do miraculous things.

They were warned against someone saying, "Look, here's the Messiah!" or "There He is!" telling them not to believe it!

They were further warned against anyone coming to them with the words, "The Messiah is out in the desert," or "The Messiah in the secret rooms," telling them not to be deceived.

These would all be TRAPS set to ensnare them and either kill them or enslave them.

When they had to run, they were instructed to ask that their flight not be in the winter (a dangerous time to travel) or on the Shabbat (a time when traveling was restricted to a short trip). A cry of grief was for the pregnant and nursing mothers, because their escape would be that much harder to accomplish.

Why do you think there are so many Jewish references in the Olivet Discourse? They were told not to leave the roofs when the time would come, but to take the "Road of the Roofs" by jumping from building to building to get to the wall of Jerusalem and get out of the city that way! They are to get out of the city, and out of the fields, not returning to pack! They were instructed to head to the mountains - the mountains of Israel, which is today called "the West Bank." They were warned about traveling on the Shabbat ("Sabbath"), which was more a restriction because they were to do no menial work on the Shabbat, and a long trip, even to save their own lives, would be strenuous, breaking the Shabbat!

Who would care today about the walls of the Old City? Modern Jerusalem doesn't have any walls! Who but the faithful Jews would care about keeping the Shabbat? How does hiding in the mountains help in today's warfare with fly-overs, infrared scanning,  and night vision?

What Yeshua` said in the Olivet Discourse only makes sense in First Century Jerusalem!

DANIEL does NOT tell us "the A of D is the middle of the week!" Look at it more carefully:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Understand THIS: The "he" in all three cases of verse 27 is a reference to "the Messiah" in verse 26! It is NOT talking about "the prince that shall come!" First, "the prince that shall come" is a clause that is contained within a prepositional phrase. Thus, it CANNOT contribute to the subject, verb, direct object, or the indirect object of the sentence! Furthermore, the Hebrew sentence doesn't end at verse 26; it continues into verse 27. That's why one has to go back to find the antecedent for the "he" in the verbs of verse 27! The antecedent of the verbs is "Messiah" in verse 26.

Therefore, it is ...

Daniel 9:27 (KJV modified)

27 And THE MESSIAH shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week THE MESSIAH shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations THE MESSIAH shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What covenant did He confirm for one Seven? The DAVIDIC Covenant! Gabriel told us that in Luke 1:30-33!

How did He cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease? He TORE THE VEIL IN HALF WITH HIS DEATH! God no longer accepted animal sacrifices for the atonement for sin! Yeshua`s death provided the only Sacrifice necessary!

How did He make "it" (the city) desolate, even until the end? He did this by DECLARING the household of Jerusalem "DESOLATE" in Matthew 23:38! He did this because of the abominations of the scribes and Pharisees that they were spreading among the people!

These verbs were not to be performed by some "antichrist" figure in the future; they were performed by the Messiah Yeshua` (the Christ Jesus) during His First Advent!

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

The information of the prophesied A of D comes from Daniel. The only known A of D after the prophecy of Daniel occurred in the 2nd century BC, committed by Antiochus Epiphanes IV after he was rebuked by the Romans.

The Jewish Encyclopedia

"The context of these passages leaves no room for doubt as to what was intended by this somewhat odd expression; namely, the transformation, by Antiochus Epiphanes, of the sacred Temple at Jerusalem into a heathen one."

" In both Biblical and rabbinical Hebrew abomination is a familiar term for an idol "

There's nothing wrong in these quotes; the "Abomination of Desolation," however, is not found in Daniel 9 but in Daniel 11, and they were indeed about Antiochus IV "Epiphanes."

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

"According to most modern commentators, these passages are a Jewish apocalypse, somewhat tinged with Christianity, intended to prophesy the end of time, when the Antichrist, as the Abomination of Desolation, shall be enthroned as a ruler in God's Temple. The closely related "smaller Apocalypse" in II Thess. ii. 1-12 is a conclusive justification of this view; for it shows that neither the Romans (as Weiss in his commentary, ad loc., holds), nor the Zealots (Bleek, "Synoptische Erklärung," and others), nor Caligula with his self-deification (Spitta, in his "Offenbarung Johannis") can be intended."[emphasis mine]

So it far more than simple fleeing, it's an idol erected in the Temple and the Temple profaned through spiritual adultery in obeisance to the idol.

There are idols and there are IDOLS! The Roman legion which invaded Jerusalem in 66-67 A.D. brought in their Legion's Eagle and planted it on the Temple grounds, which was a violation of God's Temple! The Romans also assumed that they deserved a toll on the Temple properties and TOOK their toll from the Temple treasury! 

In 70 A.D., despite the other atrocities, the worst was the burning of the Temple. The gold of the Temple had flowed between the stones of its walls, and the Roman soldiers took apart the stones to get at the gold that was in between the stones! It wasn't an "Abomination of Desolation"; it was an "abomination" LEADING to a "desolation," as the Jews were deprived of their Temple.

Yeshua` put it this way:

Matthew 24:15-22 (KJV)

15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place," (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mark 13:14-19 (KJV)

14 "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not," (let him that readeth understand,) "then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be."

Luke 21:20-22 (KJV)

20 "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed (surrounded) with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." 

 

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

As for what the guy who placed that idol did:

The Jewish Encyclopedia

"Having thus made Jerusalem a Greek colony, the king's attention was next turned to the destruction of the national religion. A royal decree proclaimed the abolition of the Jewish mode of worship; Sabbaths and festivals were not to be observed; circumcision was not to be performed; the sacred books were to be surrendered and the Jews were compelled to offer sacrifices to the idols that had been erected. The officers charged with carrying out these commands did so with great rigor; a veritable inquisition was established with monthly sessions for investigation. The possession of a sacred book or the performance of the rite of circumcision was punished with death. On Kislew (Nov.-Dec.) 25, 168, the "abomination of desolation" (http://d3sva65x0i5hnc.cloudfront.net/V01p635001.jpg, Dan. xi. 31, xii. 11) was set up on the altar of burnt offering in the Temple, and the Jews required to make obeisance to it. This was probably the Olympian Zeus, or Baal Shamem"

While the fleeing of the Jews in 70 AD did indeed occur this was not the case[only] in 167 BC. In 70 AD the Temple was burned then razed and the stones of the Temple cast from the Mount to fulfill the prophecy of Jesus.

But Daniel, to whom we are to look for the understanding of the A of D, prophesied of Antiochus Epiphanes IV in 167 BC. At that time Antiochus was in a rage after the Romans rebuffed his attempt to conqueror Egypt, also prophesied by Daniel here along with the A of D:

"30For the ships of Chittim[Romans] shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate."

According to the Jewish Encyclopedia this occurred exactly as prophesied. Since Daniel exposed the coming A of D by Antiochus Epiphanes IV in 167 BC and it was fulfilled, Jesus then spoke of another [No, there is another!] which did not happen in 70 AD. In 70 AD the Temple was burned contrary to the orders of Titus; burned, or at least started by Legio X Fretensis, mostly made up of Syrian, or Arab, conscripts.

So I don't see any way to equate the A of D as spoken of by Daniel the prophet with the prophecy of the destruction of the Temple. Especially since the A of D is not about destroying the physical Temple, but instead focuses on the destruction of the national and religious identity of a people, severing the conduit to their God and utterly terrorizing them spiritually.

LOL! Well, you're not wrong, ... but then, you're not quite right in your conclusions, either!

First, be careful making "Abomination of Desolation" a label for a particular event. The two words "hashshiqquwts" (the abomination) and "m-showmeem" (with-devastation) are COMMON WORDS in Hebrew! They are not meant to be some label attached to something!

It's like the "United States of America": Originally, people would say "THESE united states of America," meaning these thirteen, independent "countries of (North) America are united in purpose." Today, we say, "THE United States of America," meaning this ONE country  called "the United States of (North) America." And, "states" in our country are like "provinces" or "regions" in other countries. We have changed the original meaning of the terms into a LABEL for a single country!

The word in Daniel 9:27 is NOT "hashshiqquwts," but it's "shiqquwstiym!" First, the definite article "ha-" is dropped (and the "shin" is no longer dotted or doubled), and second, the word is made PLURAL by adding the masculine "-iym" ending. So, it doesn't mean "the abomination"; it means "abominations," plural!

This matches what Yeshua` was talking about when bawling out the scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 23! Their actions and rejection of God's Messiah for their King WERE the "abominations!"

Not only did Yeshua` pronounce their household "DESOLATE," but it led to the "DESOLATION" in 70 A.D., and they've been "DESOLATE" ever since!

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord!'"

I've brought this up before, but this last sentence is a quotation from Psalm 118:26:

Psalm 118:21-26 (KJV)

21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

This clause in Hebrew consists of four words:

בָּר֣וּךְ הַ֭בָּא בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהוָ֑ה

This is transliterated to:

Baaruwkh habaa' b-sheem YHWH.

The first two words in their plural forms can be seen at all the airports and seaports in modern Israel: They are used for "Welcome, visitors." They literally mean, "Be-blessed, the-comers."

The point is that Yeshua` was telling them that they wouldn't see Him return until they could WELCOME HIM BACK with YHWH God's authority! Therefore, they are STILL suffering! They've been through persecutions, inquisitions, crusades, exile from country after country, the Holocaust, and now all the terrorism and rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip. They still fight against anti-Semitism all over the world, and ALL of this comes from their rejection of the Messiah!

It's OUR job as believers (Israeli or not) to share with them the Gospel of the Kingdom! But, to our shame (or surprise) we've hardly BEGUN to proclaim the Gospel of  the Kingdom! And yet, Yeshua` said,

Matthew 24:9-14 (KJV)

9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (Greek: eis thlipsin = "into tribulation"), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached (heralded) in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

And, what is this "gospel of the kingdom?"

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John (the Messiah's herald) was put in prison, Jesus (God's Messiah [God's Anointed One to be King]) came into Galilee, preaching (heralding [for Himself]) the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel!"

Paul said to the Romans,

Romans 10:14-15 (KJV)

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher (herald)? 15 And how shall they preach (herald), except they be sent? as it is written,

"How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" (Isaiah 52:7)

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, "Thy God reigneth!"

God's justification of an individual based on the finished work of the Messiah on the cross is good news, too, but THIS is the "gospel of the kingdom!" and this is one message that isn't taught very well, yet!

[Retrobyter]

20 hours ago, Diaste said:

Fanciful. 

Matt 24:31-46 isn't limited to ambassadors, it's everyone. I didn't think you were given to tilting at windmills. But here we are.

 

 

I don't disagree.

Again, I don't disagree.

Shalom, Diaste.

Look at the passage from the Olivet Discourse again. He's not bringing up individuals before His throne; He's bringing up NATIONS to answer for their treatment of His people!

Matthew 25:31-46 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS (NOT individuals!): and he shall separate them (the nations) one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep (nations) on his right hand, but the goats (nations) on the left.

34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,

"'Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.'

37 "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,

"'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?'

40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them,

"'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.'

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,

"'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.' 

44 "Then shall they also answer him, saying,

"'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?'

45 "Then shall he answer them, saying,

"'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.'

46 "And these shall go away (Greek: apeleusontai houtoi = "shall-go-away these," the verb is in the future tense, indicative mood, middle voice of the third-person, plural) into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

The middle voice of a verb means that the subject is acting upon himself! They go away ON THEIR OWN, heading eventually "into everlasting punishment!"

Furthermore, He's not THROWING anyone into the Lake of Fire! He is SENDING THEM AWAY TO THEIR FATE! See, the fate of a nation will likely be the fate of its people, but not necessarily! The fate of a nation can be avoided by an individual IF that individual LEAVES THAT NATION! This will be harder for one to defect from that nation than for one within a nation made a vassal kingdom to the Messiah's Kingdom, but not impossible! Thus, the individual who lives in such a nation who wants to learn more about the King of Israel still has the chance to do so!

This is at the BEGINNING of His Kingdom! He has just taken the throne! And, then, these nations stand before Him! However, the GWTJ doesn't occur until AFTER the Kingdom's first 1,000 years are finished!

I'm not "tilting at windmills"; I'm letting the Scriptures tell me what's going on, and I find that out best in the original languages.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Retrobyter

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You simply do not understand the grammar of Greek verb tense structure.

Of course not.

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Active voice, from blueletterbible.org:

" Definition of "Active"

" Represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "Jesus returned to Capernaum" Jesus performs the action. "

Active voice says nothing about the when of an action, as you seem to think.

The "when" of it is past, present or future. Jesus returned to Capernaum is a past completed action; it's not 'returning' or 'will return'. So from the perspective of the hearer or reader it was a past event. 

Maybe that was bad example?

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The when of the action derives from the tense of a verb; here being 2nd aorist tense: simple past tense.

In any case, so we don't lose sight of the main point. "Elthen" cannot be past tense in both Rev 6:17 and 11:18. To hold to this means wrath had arrived in Rev 6:17 before the signs of His coming and before His appearance. 

I could agree in 11:18 it's a past tense aorist but that would mean 6:17 is also a past tense aorist which in the context of the text is impossible. Wrath doesn't come before the signs of Rev 6:12-16 so past tense here is untenable grammatically and contextually.

Since it's the same verb form in Rev 11:18, 'elthen', that can't be past tense either. 

'Elthen' is an active indicative aorist. The tense then is either present or future, not past. 

You can elevate verb forms over context if you like but the facts of Rev 6:12-17 says the signs have just occurred, the people have just realized what's happening and that realization is wrath is about to begin; not has begun in the past.

Since 'elthen' is designating the present or future in Rev 6:17 then it also is present or future in Rev 11:18. Hence, the 6th seal and the 7th trump form a conjunction of occurrence, they are co-incident arriving at the nexus of arrival, redemption and wrath.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I don't follow your teachings and beliefs, don't add your opinions to my words and belief "Please", scripture doesn't teach weeks of years or a 7 year tribulation

Okay. That's just wrong. I'm scrutinizing. Things aren't adding up.

15 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

Yes the church will have a 70 week warning, watching the command to build in Jerusalem and the literal building of the wall/street taking place for 62 weeks

Building what? The prophecy is rebuilding and restoring Jerusalem. Are you likening this rebuild to the Temple?

"From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem,"

 

15 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

The antichrist being revealed, and armies surrounding Jerusalem will be just around the corner

Jesus Is The Lord

 

 

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS (NOT individuals!): and he shall separate them (the nations) one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep (nations) on his right hand, but the goats (nations) on the left.

"32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

That word, 'people' in the above quote? That's 'autos'. It's the self as distinguished from another 'self'. Jesus is simply saying all the nations of the earth, every individual, will be gathered and individuals will be separated from other individuals.