Battle of the mind, overcoming the flesh

[Whyme]

4 minutes ago, Alive said:

 

A lot of folks conflate 'sins' with operating in the flesh--there is a distinction there.

Paul's Romans 7 experience will be ours to whatever extent as long as we are in these mortal bodies. Make no mistake about that.

We can experience great victory in Christ as we grow and mature In Him and as our senses are exercised to discern...its a wonderful privilege indeed.

 

Whats the distinction?

[Whyme]

@Josheb Im not seeing how reading an interlinear changes my mind. The website you gave me has greek verses, and English. You will have to guide me through what you are saying. What words do you want me to focus on?

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Whyme said:

Whats the distinction?

Notice I said "sins' plural not sin as an existential reality. Operating in the flesh or according to the various dictates of the flesh is what is not of the Spirit, but not necessarily 'sins' committed. Our natural man which is fleshly can be very active as we seek to serve God--the things that have their origin there--is very different from those works, those things that have their origin in the Spirit and from Christ.

Its good to know that there is a difference first of all--- and then over time and in God's Grace to recognize the differences from day to day.

Sins are things committed (simplified)--the flesh is anything that is not of His Spirit operating in you and out from you.

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

Notice I said "sins' plural not sin as an existential reality. Operating in the flesh or according to the various dictates of the flesh is what is not of the Spirit, but not necessarily 'sins' committed. Our natural man which is fleshly can be very active as we seek to serve God--the things that have their origin there--is very different from those works, those things that have their origin in the Spirit and from Christ.

Its good to know that there is a difference first of all--- and then over time and in God's Grace to recognize the differences from day to day.

Sins are things committed (simplified)--the flesh is anything that is not of His Spirit operating in you and out from you.

If we operate according to the dictates of the flesh (i.e. various cravings of our bodies, including the brain), then we commit sins, by definition.

Eph. 2:1-3 (EMTV)

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in your transgressions and sins,
  2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience,
  3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the senses, and were by nature children of wrath, as also the rest.

Yes, there is an important distinction between the principle of sin and specific sins.

The natural man (e.g. 1 Cor. 2:14) refers to the unregenerate, unsaved man, not to our physical body.

The flesh refers to our physical body (the part of us that is not resurrected yet), in which there dwells no good thing.

Rom. 6:11-13 (WEB)

11 Thus consider yourselves also to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 

  12  Therefore don’t let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
  13 Neither present your members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

When a Christian tries to live by law...

Rom. 7:22-24 (EMTV)

22 For I delight in the law of God in my inner being.
  23 But I see a different law in my members, waging war against the law of my mind, and capturing me by the law of sin which is in my members.
  24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from this body of death?

The law (i.e. principle, in this context) of sin in our members (bodily parts) is stirred up by the law (i.e. the law of Moses), making righteous living by law impossible.  This is why Paul calls his physical body "this body of death".

To be "in the flesh" means to be unregenerate, for such people do not have the Holy Spirit.

Rom. 8:8-10 (WEB)

 8 Those who are in the flesh can’t please God.
  9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.
  10 If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

[Whyme]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Go back to the Greek transliteration to which I linked the thread. Notice that the words "set on" do not appear in the Greek! The KJV states, "The carnally-minded is death...." which is somewhat more accurate but the word "carnally" is NOT what the Greek states. The NAS (my preferred translation) states, "The mind set on the flesh..." and the NIV states, "The mind governed by the flesh..." Other translations take other liberties with the Greek but they do so unnecessarily. The Greek speaks perfectly on its own...

The mind of flesh... 
The mind of Spirit... 

Anyone wanting to understand the problem of and the solution to the battle of mind overcoming the flesh must do so from God's perspective. Yes? God's perspective is NOT one in which He has previously sinned!!! God does not and never has had "a mind of flesh"!!! WE "see" this question from "inside the frame". As I said earlier, it is hard to see the picture from inside the frame. This is all the more so since the "picture" has been adulterated by sin.

What is it we are overcoming? 

The flesh!!! 

What kind of mind do we have with which to battle the mind? 

One of flesh!

What kind of mind do we need to have? 

One of Spirit, not flesh!

As long as we frame the discussion, the problem and the solution in terms of what we set on or are governed by we've missed the critical feature: The work of the Spirit! 

 

Can a Godless atheist be kind? 
Can a Godless atheist be patient?

 

 

.

Look bro, im asking for a whole translation of the complete verse. Its not too much to ask.. We could clear this up easy if i only had a verse to work with. You say the English translations are wrong. Give me what you consider to be an accurate translation. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Whyme

[Whyme]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Go back to the Greek transliteration to which I linked the thread. Notice that the words "set on" do not appear in the Greek! The KJV states, "The carnally-minded is death...." which is somewhat more accurate but the word "carnally" is NOT what the Greek states. The NAS (my preferred translation) states, "The mind set on the flesh..." and the NIV states, "The mind governed by the flesh..." Other translations take other liberties with the Greek but they do so unnecessarily. The Greek speaks perfectly on its own...

The mind of flesh... 
The mind of Spirit... 

Anyone wanting to understand the problem of and the solution to the battle of mind overcoming the flesh must do so from God's perspective. Yes? God's perspective is NOT one in which He has previously sinned!!! God does not and never has had "a mind of flesh"!!! WE "see" this question from "inside the frame". As I said earlier, it is hard to see the picture from inside the frame. This is all the more so since the "picture" has been adulterated by sin.

What is it we are overcoming? 

The flesh!!! 

What kind of mind do we have with which to battle the mind? 

One of flesh!

What kind of mind do we need to have? 

One of Spirit, not flesh!

As long as we frame the discussion, the problem and the solution in terms of what we set on or are governed by we've missed the critical feature: The work of the Spirit! 

 

Can a Godless atheist be kind? 
Can a Godless atheist be patient?

 

 

.

So its the work of the Spirit. Whats your point? Thank you.

[Arrabon]

"BATTLE OF THE MIND, OVERCOMING THE FLESH."

@Whyme

Older believers like myself love these type of discussions because we have had to "LIVE THROUGH" overcoming our own flesh with God's help and a lot of scripture reading, and a lot of prayers and more failures, before success began to happen one level after another, as I drew closer and closer to God out of the desperation of one maddening failure after another.

But, just as I thought I had put a sin behind me, I suddenly found myself engulphed in the same sin once more.

Scripture reminds us over and over what we SHOULD BECOME, as in 

Hebrews 12:1

"let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset (Entangle) us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,"

In studying "let us lay aside", you will discover that this is a process spoken of, not an instantaneous  response or result to giving your life to Christ, but a life long process of struggling and enduring that Paul and other authors speak of all through the scriptures like Peter in 

1 Peter 4:18

"And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved,"

One of the many things I love about God, is that He has "a built in disclaimer for us" about sin for those of us who are struggling, as we all do, with our own "BESETTING SIN", or sins, and with all our heart want to be perfect as Christ is perfect, as we pick up our cross daily to walk with Him. 

It's called forgiveness!

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

For those here who post verses and comments about all you have to do is this or that...making getting over your sins sound "EASY PEEZY," you might think about how you are calling God a liar about the difficulty of dealing with sins.

Why do you think God said in Matthew 7: 14, and Luke 13: 23-24 that "FEW" who seem to be believers will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Try reading Matthew 7:21 also 

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God bless

My name is Arrabon

 

 

 

[TheBlade]

WhyMe you asked about walking in the spirit and 7 pages in.. something is not even talked about which for me is the key. Its always praying in the spirit.. I mean always. Paul had the greatest revelation no? Had to always be praying in the spirit. A if He's doing more then all.. maybe I should also. Every time I do ..every time I find its never old.. its like new and oh HOW am I not doing this every moment. He truly does not ever push shove force us. We have to do it.. choose to.. He will just wait be it a min or 25 years. Me.. I would not like to live this life with out it. His presence always comes.

 For me its worthless to think like.. hmm I have to watch what I say think do.. have to make sure I love my neighbor.. on and on. Not going to go anywhere. Like giving I will never give if I have to. I want to.. I want to keep His word that is IN ME..its part of me. He said He is in us and we are IN Him. .. so not wise to share what is not even talked about. I like agree with much of what has been said here. 

[Whyme]

32 minutes ago, Arrabon said:

"BATTLE OF THE MIND, OVERCOMING THE FLESH."

@Whyme

Older believers like myself love these type of discussions because we have had to "LIVE THROUGH" overcoming our own flesh with God's help and a lot of scripture reading, and a lot of prayers and more failures, before success began to happen one level after another, as I drew closer and closer to God out of the desperation of one maddening failure after another.

But, just as I thought I had put a sin behind me, I suddenly found myself engulphed in the same sin once more.

Scripture reminds us over and over what we SHOULD BECOME, as in 

Hebrews 12:1

"let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset (Entangle) us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,"

In studying "let us lay aside", you will discover that this is a process spoken of, not an instantaneous  response or result to giving your life to Christ, but a life long process of struggling and enduring that Paul and other authors speak of all through the scriptures like Peter in 

1 Peter 4:18

"And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved,"

One of the many things I love about God, is that He has "a built in disclaimer for us" about sin for those of us who are struggling, as we all do, with our own "BESETTING SIN", or sins, and with all our heart want to be perfect as Christ is perfect, as we pick up our cross daily to walk with Him. 

It's called forgiveness!

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

For those here who post verses and comments about all you have to do is this or that...making getting over your sins sound "EASY PEEZY," you might think about how you are calling God a liar about the difficulty of dealing with sins.

Why do you think God said in Matthew 7: 14, and Luke 13: 23-24 that "FEW" who seem to be believers will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Try reading Matthew 7:21 also 

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God bless

My name is Arrabon

 

 

 

I have no idea who is saying overcoming sin is easy. 

[Whyme]

30 minutes ago, TheBlade said:

WhyMe you asked about walking in the spirit and 7 pages in.. something is not even talked about which for me is the key. Its always praying in the spirit.. I mean always. Paul had the greatest revelation no? Had to always be praying in the spirit. A if He's doing more then all.. maybe I should also. Every time I do ..every time I find its never old.. its like new and oh HOW am I not doing this every moment. He truly does not ever push shove force us. We have to do it.. choose to.. He will just wait be it a min or 25 years. Me.. I would not like to live this life with out it. His presence always comes.

 For me its worthless to think like.. hmm I have to watch what I say think do.. have to make sure I love my neighbor.. on and on. Not going to go anywhere. Like giving I will never give if I have to. I want to.. I want to keep His word that is IN ME..its part of me. He said He is in us and we are IN Him. .. so not wise to share what is not even talked about. I like agree with much of what has been said here. 

Yes, walking in the Spirit seems important.