The Kingdom is in out midst? Luke 17:20-21

[Willa]

48 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 

I sometimes read that as meaning the kingdom is within you, as well as in the midst of born again Christians who receives Him as their LORD.  Christ dwells within us.  Where 2 or 3 are gathered He is in our midst.  In that day Christ physically  was in their midst or among them.  

22 hours ago, Willa said:

 Luk 17:20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

 Luk 17:21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

49 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Remember when Jesus spoke those words. He spoke them before Calvary and Pentecost had occurred. He could not have been referring to the future events of regeneration and indwelling if he was using present-tense language.  

 

As I said, Jesus Himself represented the Kingdom and was in their midst.  It applies to today because The Holy Spirit is now in our midst.  People who follow Him and obey His guidance are submitting to Him as their King, and so are a part of God's Kingdom.  Does that explain it better?

[Willa]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

So the short answer is, "I agree with what you posted, Josh"?

Lol!   I rarely read overly long posts.  I am glad we agree.

[David1701]

On 5/8/2021 at 7:39 AM, Whyme said:

Is this translation accurate i wonder? And what does it mean? 

 

Luke 17:20-21

New American Standard Bible

Second Coming Foretold

20 Now He was questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, and He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with [a]signs that can be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

It's technically a possible translation; but "within you" fits the context much better.

[Dennis1209]

My thoughts:

Matthew 21:9 (KJV) And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

As foretold in scripture (Old Testament) to the exact day, Jesus made His triumphal entry riding a colt into Jerusalem, to then establish His Kingdom. But according to the omniscience of God and His plan, Jesus was rejected by the Jews as the Messiah and crucified. 

[David1701]

40 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Was the kingdom of God within the Pharisees plotting to kill Jesus?

I believe that Jesus' answer was referring to what characterises the kingdom of God (i.e. it is not external with outward show but within you ("you" being general, rather than referring to the Pharisees themselves)).  The translation "among you" does not accord nearly as well with this contrast between inward and outward.

Edited May 10, 2021 by David1701

[Alive]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Yep. Did the Pharisees to whom he was speaking possess those qualities? 

 

 

Such a simple question. Very op-relevant question. Why is no one answering it? 

 

 

 

(btw, David, the parenthesis are off in your post and it ends up not making any sense. might want to correct that)

Of course not--they were of their father the devil.

A Kingdom exists in space and time as the members recognize the King as such. Simple terms. It started with the works of Christ representing the Father then "and whom do you say that I am". The authority of God established in the earth.

I have seen an analogy of these things in the Israelites taking the Land as the enemy was driven out. Their possession of the Land in steps supplanted one authority with God's. On earth as in Heaven.

As individual members, this same analogy, works in our sanctification. The Land. The Kingdom.

[David1701]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Yep. Did the Pharisees to whom he was speaking possess those qualities? 

 

 

Such a simple question. Very op-relevant question. Why is no one answering it? 

 

 

 

(btw, David, the parenthesis are off in your post and it ends up not making any sense. might want to correct that)

No, the Pharisees to whom the Lord was speaking did not have the kingdom of God within them.

Initially, I accidentally omitted a close bracket, but then amended it.

Edited May 11, 2021 by David1701

[Alive]

29 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Yes, but the point I am trying to make (keep trying to make) is the fact that on that particular occasion (Luke 17:20-21) Jesus was NOT speaking to the Pharisees about the Pharisees! He was speaking to the Pharisees but not about the Pharisees. If the  definitions and descriptions provided by every single poster so far in this discussion are true and correct.... then none of it applies to the Pharisees! They did not have the KoG within them.

And that then means either "within you" is not the proper translation of "in your midst" Because the KoG was not within them, or everyone here and now discussing the verse in question has to adapt their definition(s) accordingly. 

This op asks if the translation is accurate (it is) and then asks what does it mean. That is the inquiry of this op. The op might have been intended as a discussion of the KoG in and among believers but that is NOT what the specified verses are about. We either need another passage or we need to adjust the conversation so it is relevant to the verses quoted. Luke 17:20-21 is not specifically nor explicitly about Christians. It is not about post-Calvary and post-Pentecost conditions. The kingdom of God was in the Pharisees midst back then and there before Calvary and Pentecost and the meaning of that is not being discussed (much) in this op. 

And that is ironic because it wasn't discussed by the Pharisees, either. 

Maybe that's not the intent of the op but it is worth noting because the KoG is much larger than that which dwells within us, much larger than that which dwells within the post-Calvary, post-Pentecostal regenerate believer in the resurrection. There are many reasons for having the conversation because doing s will make us practice proper exegetical skills. Treating Luke 17:20-21 as if it comparable to other passages like John 14:26, Galatians 5:25, or 1 John 4:13. Had the op quoted any of those verses/passages we would all be having a much different conversation and the one we are having would be much more consistent with the scripture quoted. Currently most everyone is talking about a Christian understanding of the KoG that does not apply to the Pharisees of Luke 17:20-21 and it therefore has little bearing or consistency with what Jesus was actually saying in those two verses. 

 

 

The kingdom of God is much bigger than that which dwells within the regenerate believer.

 

 

And if we want to properly or more completely understand the kingdom of God then that is what we will discuss because that is what Jesus is saying when he tells pre-Calvary murderous Pharisees (who believe in a resurrection) the kingdom is in their midst (but NOT at that point within them). 

Just saying.

Ya--I got that.

:-)

That is essentially why I first mentioned that they were of their father the devil. The Kingdom was in their midst or we might say close by them, but not within them. They stood on different ground.

I also agree that a more expansive discussion of the Kingdom of God is valuable--not to the exclusion of-- or as well as our part post Pentecost.

:-)

[Arrabon]

@Whyme

I love topics and questions like this!!!

To me the statement of Jesus has to be considered IN CONTEXT !!

The Greek word that is translated as “midst” has the meaning of “among” or “in the midst of.” So what was the meaning of Jesus’ reply? He told them that the kingdom was already among them, but not within them. Since they were rejecting Jesus, it is clear that they were not citizens of the kingdom; and since scripture never speaks of the kingdom being inside someone, the kingdom was not in them either. But the kingdom was among them in the sense that Jesus, the King of the kingdom was living among them on the earth.

If we want to apply this to ourselves, to me, today, it's the same thing, that Jesus and God are in our midst, or amongst us, as is the Kingdom of heaven in them, when we receive the "GIFT of the HOLY SPIRIT".

My name is Arrabon.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Arrabon

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Then in answer to the specific question asked in the op we should not be discussing "in your midst" as "within you," because the latter does not apply to the Pharisees. 

 

And it is informative and illustrative to us about us that few of us considered the facts of scripture when answering the op's inquiry. 

Here is the original post, in full.

Quote

 

Is this translation accurate i wonder? And what does it mean? 

 

Luke 17:20-21

New American Standard Bible

Second Coming Foretold

20 Now He was questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, and He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with [a]signs that can be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

 

I was answering the questions about translation accuracy and meaning.  The former bears upon the latter.

In order to restrict the discussion to "... in your midst.", we would have to agree that that is the correct translation, and I don't agree.