Sheep & Goats = Matthew 25;31-46

[enoob57]

When ever anyone starts to say all is not all or the world is not the world and wrest the Scriptures to fit their ideology I become leery of them... the Scripture will take us to place where we must wait upon God for enlargement to continue with Him but that is just the leading of Scripture... sheep and goats is about essence you are either of God's s/Spirit or you are not and that will be decided by God at the end of this existence 'Great White Throne' before the eternal state... I cannot fathom an eternity without God a place void of love and those there by choice ... wow how tragic!

[Guest clancy]

Ignorance ,has no choice...,only God can settle ignorant free....

[Willa]

16 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

In 1Jn5:11-12, " has" does not mean to receive. As concerning Jn1:11-12, why is it a common practice among many to not continue with v.13? The context is in v.13. God's chosen are "born of God" first, and they are the only ones qualified to receive the Lord Jesus Christ. 

 I didn't say "has" means to receive.  When we receive Christ, we have eternal life because He is in us and we are in Him.  I don't believe that contradicts John 6.  It is just a different perspective.  Just as the Father revealed to Peter that Jesus is the Christ, He reveals the same to us so that we are able to receive Him.  I just believe that we are free at that time to reject that revelation or accept it.  Those who the Father has given to Jesus will receive Him.  Since He knows the end from the beginning, He has given to Jesus those that He knows will receive Him as their Lord and God.  Those who reject Him will harden their own hearts.  Pride has a lot to do with rejecting Jesus and hardening of hearts.  He opposed the proud but gives grace to the humble.  A person does not have to be born again to do this, just as Peter was not yet born again.  We are given the right to be born again after receiving Him.  Anyhow, that's how I see it.  Not a good Calvinist but not a good Arminian.  

Joh 1:12  But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

 

[Leonardo Von]

On 6/11/2021 at 2:32 PM, missmuffet said:

That is the separation of the believers and the nonbelievers at the end of the 7 year tribulation. 

Excuse me, but I disagree because all unbelievers will die in the Battle of Armageddon. This is a separation between godly believers and dominating believers.

[missmuffet]

10 minutes ago, Leonardo Von said:

Excuse me, but I disagree because all unbelievers will die in the Battle of Armageddon. This is a separation between godly believers and dominating believers.

Suit yourself.

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, @MizKJVOnly.

It's important to understand that this is about a WAR TRIBUNAL that will occur soon after Yeshua` ("Jesus") has returned to earth.

Matthew 25:31-46 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory (brightness), and all the holy angels (Greek: aggeloi = "messengers") with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (brightness; fame): 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them (the nations) one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 "Then shall THE KING say unto them on his right hand, 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.'

37 "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, 'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?'

40 "And THE KING shall answer and say unto them, 'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren (the children of Israel, particularly the Jews, and those adopted into Yeshua`s "Mishpachah," His "Family"), ye have done it unto me.'

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not!' 

44 "Then shall they also answer him, saying, 'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?'

45 "Then shall he answer them, saying, 'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me!' 

46 And these [nations] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [nations] into life eternal.

Two things one must pick up on in this passage of Scripture:

First, the angels are NOT immediately throwing the second group into the fire. The King has just CONSIGNED them there!

Second, this is a judgment on the NATIONS, not on the individuals within those nations. IF the individuals choose to remain with their nation, then they will suffer the fate of that nation. HOWEVER, if they choose to renounce their nation and seek asylum in another nation, they have the opportunity to share in the fate of that new nation. Not everyone in a particular nation given over to anti-Semetism is anti-Semetic. So, one should temper his or her belief about this passage with Peter's words:

2 Peter 3:8-9 (KJV)

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Sure, nations are made up of people; however, their LEADERSHIP is usually limited to a few, whether to a single king, a congress of representatives, or an oligarchy that represents what they feel is the best choices for its populace. Even a dictator is a leader, which may or may not make the best choices for his populace.

When there is a war tribunal, it's the LEADERSHIP that is brought before the Judge as the representatives for the country they represent! That may be the actual leaders, their embassy representatives, or their military generals, but it is the COUNTRY that is under scrutiny!

This war tribunal is at the BEGINNING of the Millennium, the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom. However, the Great White Throne Judgment, when individuals are actually thrown into the Lake of Fire, occurs at the END of the Millennium! The over-all control of what happens during the Millennium is controlled in the parables of Matthew 13 and in the description of this time period as Paul relates it in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28.

The parable of the wheat and tares is about the Messiah's Kingdom in the FUTURE, after He has returned.

Matthew 13:24-30 (KJV)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'An enemy hath done this.'

"The servants said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

Later, when asked about it, He explained:

Matthew 13:36-43 (KJV)

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying,

"Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."

37 He answered and said unto them,

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 
38 The field is the world;
the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world (age);
and the reapers are the angels. 

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Again, this reflects on what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, remembering that the context of 1 Corinthians 15 is the "Resurrection":

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (at the beginning of the Millennium). 
24 (2) Then cometh the end (of the Millennium), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. [But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest that he (God) is excepted, which did put all things under him.] 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The war tribunal of Matthew 25 follows the campaign of Har-Megiddown ("Armageddon") that starts when Yeshua` first attacks at Botsrah in Edowm (or Southern Judah today); He chases the enemies out of HIS Land, purging Jerusalem in the process, and chasing them across the mountains of Israel. They run from Him until they think they can take a stand on the plain of Yizr`e'l ("Jezreel"), below the view of Har-Megiddown (today called "Tel Megiddo"). It is there that the blood will flow to the horses' bridles. Yeshua` will be the winner of this battle, and He will judge the participants in the "Valley of Decision" just outside Jerusalem on its south-eastern side.

Isaiah 34:1-8 (KJV)

1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 63:1-6 (KJV)

1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength?

"I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save (rescue)."

2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

3 "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment!" 4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. 6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth."

Zechariah 14:1-9 (KJV)

1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Joel 3:9-16 (KJV)

9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; "Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10 "Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, 'I am strong.'"
11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats (wine vats) overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

THIS is what the Master, Yeshua`, the Mashiyach of God, will do when He comes! Israel is HIS Land! All interlopers, intruders, and trespassers must GET OUT! Then, He will call for His people, the children of Israel, and they will come from all places around the world! This includes any Gentiles who have been adopted into His Mishpachah (His Family), by virtue of His Sacrifice for all.

Isaiah 66:6-16 (KJV)

6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add a reference

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, @MizKJVOnly.

It's important to understand that this is about a WAR TRIBUNAL that will occur soon after Yeshua` ("Jesus") has returned to earth.

 

Hi Retro,

Hey that was really good there bro. You have written some really important points there. Well done.

Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

On 6/11/2021 at 1:32 PM, missmuffet said:

That is the separation of the believers and the nonbelievers at the end of the 7 year tribulation. 

Shalom, missmuffet.

No, ma'am. This "judgment" is a judgment of NATIONS, not individuals. It's not about "believers" or "nonbelievers"; it's about how a nation treated the King's people. It's a WAR TRIBUNAL that Yeshua` will hold as the New King of Israel and the Winner of the War in which the culmination will be the battle at Har-Megiddown, the "Hill of Megiddo," today called "Tel Megiddo," and in Revelation 16:16 Helenized to "Armageddon."

This is a very REAL place located at global coordinates 32.575862, 35.180884. (One can use Google Maps to zoom in on this location.)

It's about 30 miles south-east of Haifa, Israel. It's a small area that once was a town (and is still close to one) that overlooked a pass in the mountains. Even today, it's an overlook that is above the point where two roads (Highways 65 and 66) meet.

The plain below in the Valley of Jezreel is a natural staging area, and it's the place where the enemies of Israel will think they can make their stand against the Messiah and His army, only to find that the blood will flow to the horses' bridles!

The War Tribunal itself shall be held in the Valley of Hinnom ("Gei-Hinnom" in Hebrew or "Gehenna" in Greek), just outside the Old City of Jerusalem on the south-east side. Facing Jerusalem, the king's left will be the trash heap where wrong-doers are punished and executed. The king's right will be the Eastern Gate of the city, the road into the city where the Temple shall be rebuilt.

These nations' representatives, whether generals, ambassadors, or the kings or leaders themselves, shall face the King of Israel (Yeshua` God's Anointed One [Mashiyach = Messiah = Christos = Christ] to be the King). Those who have treated His people well shall be welcomed and annexed into His Kingdom. Those who have abused His people shall be sent away with the promise of consignment "into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." They don't go there right away, but if they continue within their cursed nation, that's where they will eventually wind up.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add some equivalent names

[missmuffet]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, missmuffet.

No, ma'am. This "judgment" is a judgment of NATIONS, not individuals. It's not about "believers" or "nonbelievers"; it's about how a nation treated the King's people. It's a WAR TRIBUNAL that Yeshua` will hold as the New King of Israel and the Winner of the War in which the culmination will be the battle at Har-Megiddown, the "Hill of Megiddo," today called "Tel Megiddo," and in Revelation 16:16 Helenized to "Armageddon."

This is a very REAL place located at global coordinates 32.575862, 35.180884. (One can use Google Maps to zoom in on this location.)

It's about 30 miles south-east of Haifa, Israel. It's a small area that once was a town (and is still close to one) that overlooked a pass in the mountains. Even today, it's an overlook that is above the point where two roads (Highways 65 and 66) meet.

The plain below in the Valley of Jezreel is a natural staging area, and it's the place where the enemies of Israel will think they can make their stand against the Messiah and His army, only to find that the blood will flow to the horses' bridles!

The War Tribunal itself shall be held in the Valley of Hinnom ("Gei-Hinnom" in Hebrew or "Gehenna" in Greek), just outside the Old City of Jerusalem on the south-east side. Facing Jerusalem, the king's left will be the trash heap where wrong-doers are punished and executed. The king's right will be the Eastern Gate of the city, the road into the city where the Temple shall be rebuilt.

These nations' representatives, whether generals, ambassadors, or the kings or leaders themselves, shall face the King of Israel (Yeshua` God's Anointed One [Mashiyach = Messiah = Christos = Christ] to be the King). Those who have treated His people well shall be welcomed and annexed into His Kingdom. Those who have abused His people shall be sent away with the promise of consignment "into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." They don't go there right away, but if they continue within their cursed nation, that's where they will eventually wind up.

You definitely don't believe what I believe. 

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, missmuffet said:

You definitely don't believe what I believe. 

Shalom, missmuffet.

Well, that's not unusual for me. We can amiably agree to disagree, sister.