Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Justin Adams]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not only were Jews promised the Holy Spirit they were the first to receive the Spirit at Pentecost. It looks to me like unless a person is a Jew, or of Israel, of the seed of Abraham, The Holy Spirit was not promised to them.

Except the very reason for them to be there 'from all nations' was to begin the regathering spoken of in the Tanach. Then as God sees the future, the apostle says "All Israel will be saved". Israelis and none Israelis are the Heritage of the Lord God. "You are all the seed of Abraham" says the apostle.

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Can you show me where I have ever said that?

Look, your replies are evasive, blurry and lacking coherency intermittently. Do you plan on directly answering simple questions, will you go into offended mode? Just show me the SCRIPTURES that firmly support your position, please.

The time of the Rapture is unknown by all except God the Father.  Keep watch because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. Matt 24:42.  v. 36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. v.37 As it was in the days of Noah....

Yet we know by Scripture that the 2nd Coming follows Armageddon.

These are in Red, Jesus Christ's own words. So what is your quaff????  You say Scripture backs your Post Trib position, you list all sorts of verses.  Guess What???  Jesus Christ Himself has stated He does not know.  If you could figure out that Jesus Christ is Scripture, you would back out of your narrative.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

[Montana Marv]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Depends. This is parousia to which you are referring, 'a continued presence'. If that's true (it is) then nothing is stopping the gathering and the subsequent arriving on the Mt of Olives. 

Of course it is not,  The angels do the gathering of the elect on earth (4 winds) and from one end of heaven to the other.  But is Christ the Bridegroom who collects the Bride.

When Jesus appears to gather the elect He comes and stays. Notice the similarities.

Similarities does not really mean anything, only that they seem similar.  At a parade a company had a redheaded employee riding in a corvette convertible.   On employee sitting on the sidewalk saw her riding in a red corvette;  Another employee sitting on the sidewalk saw her riding in a blue corvette; Yet another employee from the 6th floor saw her riding in a white corvette.  Which is true?

" Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: " 1 Thess 4

Stop here, do not precede to your following verse, not the same event.

"and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

This is the time for the 2nd Coming.

 

I didn't say they were the same event. But Jesus is not required to gather the elect, then retreat for 7 years before He comes back to the Mt of Olives. 

How do you know this.  If not the same event, why try to tie them together.

It's like picking up a cousin and driving to a family reunion. You pick up the cousin, drive to the reunion and get out of the car and greet everyone, you don't sit in the car for 7 years.

You would if it was your Bride, no kissy kissies until the Bridegroom Comes.  The Bridegroom greets everyone at the wedding banquet, not the Honeymoon.

 

My responses in blue above.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Uriah]

14 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

The time of the Rapture is unknown by all except God the Father.  Keep watch because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. Matt 24:42.  v. 36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. v.37 As it was in the days of Noah....

Yet we know by Scripture that the 2nd Coming follows Armageddon.

These are in Red, Jesus Christ's own words. So what is your quaff????  You say Scripture backs your Post Trib position, you list all sorts of verses.  Guess What???  Jesus Christ Himself has stated He does not know.  If you could figure out that Jesus Christ is Scripture, you would back out of your narrative.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

See what I mean?

If you look closely, you will see that I never claimed to know the day nor hour. I don't expect you to know them either. I never asked that. Nobody needs to know them to tell how many raptures/resurrections there are. Just show...in the scriptures..where all the extra raptures/resurrections are.

And since you brought up Noah, , (and of course Jesus used him AND Lot as examples, in these scenarios God's people were not delivered UNTIL the -day- that the judgment came down from the sky on the wicked people. Then Jesus said, "it will be just like this when the Son of Man is revealed."

 

[Montana Marv]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Technically only Jews. 

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--" - John 14

 

"When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.  When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?" - Acts 2

Not only were Jews promised the Holy Spirit they were the first to receive the Spirit at Pentecost. It looks to me like unless a person is a Jew, or of Israel, of the seed of Abraham, The Holy Spirit was not promised to them.

John was written in about 85 to 90 AD.  He already knew the Gentiles were part of those Indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  Pre flood, no one indwelt by the H.S.  Post Flood no one indwelt by the H.S. until Pentecost.  The mystery hidden from past generations.  The Holy Spirit was promised to all who Believe in Christ.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Except the very reason for them to be there 'from all nations' was to begin the regathering spoken of in the Tanach. Then as God sees the future, the apostle says "All Israel will be saved". Israelis and none Israelis are the Heritage of the Lord God. "You are all the seed of Abraham" says the apostle.

Well...I was making a point, lost I'm sure on the one I was responding to, that it's the Jew first and ALSO the Gentile. And like you say,"If we are in Christ, we are the seed of Abraham."

[Diaste]

9 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

 Pre flood, no one indwelt by the H.S.  Post Flood no one indwelt by the H.S. until Pentecost.  

 

Totally wrong, of course.

[Montana Marv]

17 minutes ago, Uriah said:

See what I mean?

If you look closely, you will see that I never claimed to know the day nor hour. I don't expect you to know them either. I never asked that. Nobody needs to know them to tell how many raptures/resurrections there are. Just show...in the scriptures..where all the extra raptures/resurrections are.

And since you brought up Noah, , (and of course Jesus used him AND Lot as examples, in these scenarios God's people were not delivered UNTIL the -day- that the judgment came down from the sky on the wicked people. Then Jesus said, "it will be just like this when the Son of Man is revealed."

 

You are wrong here, Matt 24 does not mention Lot, Only as in the days of Noah, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until Noah entered the Ark.  Status quo until he entered the Ark.  What is going on at this present time.  Eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. Now we await the breaking away from this Status quo.  When will this happen; at the Rapture.

No Status quo when the A/C arrives, death or captivity. no Status quo when Israel is pursued.  Try to have a Christian wedding during the time of the A/C, not going to happen, no guests, no food, no drinking.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

6 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Totally wrong, of course.

Show me one verse that state people were continually indwelt by the H.S. as we are promised.  Not overcome or over shadowed by the Spirit, He came for a time and left.  Christ said for His followers to Wait for this indwelling; look what happened in Acts 2.  Any O.T. comparisons?

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

18 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Well...I was making a point, lost I'm sure on the one I was responding to, that it's the Jew first and ALSO the Gentile. And like you say,"If we are in Christ, we are the seed of Abraham."

But not the seed of Issac or Jacob (later to be called Israel)

In Christ

Montana Marv