Defense of the Mid Trib Rapture

[WilliamL]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:37 AM, RonaldBruno said:

It means we must endure through the Seals and six trumpets, yet we will avoid the wrath of God which comes in the Seven Bowls.

I don't have time to respond to all your thoughts, but will address this one.

The Wrath of God comes/begins at the 6th Seal:

Rev. 6: ...the great day of His wrath has come...

The Bowls are not the whole Wrath period, they are the conclusion of it:

Rev. 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is completed/fulfilled.

 

[transmogrified]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:37 AM, RonaldBruno said:

Rev. 11:15 The Seventh Trumpet is the Last Trumpet
The one event that is the key to understanding when the Church is taken up is at the Last Trumpet. (1 Thes. 4:16, 17 & 1 Cor. 15:52)
The Pre-Tribbers MUST therefore reject the 7th Trumpet as being the last trumpet. If the 7th is the last, then their whole scenario is flawed. It means we must endure through the Seals and six trumpets, yet we will avoid the wrath of God which comes in the Seven Bowls. The problem with Post-Tribbers is, they insist that the Church much endure the entire GT or die in the midst. God does not appoint us to wrath though but will suffer some of the Great Tribulation (or those days prior to the rapture). If there was a trumpet after the 7^th, then it would be the 8^th. If before the 7^th, it wouldn’t be the last.

Hi RonaldBruno-

 I am sorry I didn't see your post until just now...sometimes it seems the notifications don't work, or I just didn't see it...

But yes, if the 7th Trumpet is the last trumpet then of course the whole Pre trib scenario fails...but it is not just contingent on the 7th trumpet being the last, it also relies on what Jesus said in John 6 about the resurrection on the last day...This, and what Paul said about all of the believers being changed in a moment in a twinkle of an eye, resolves all the variants of the rapture, namely, WHO will be resurrected, WHEN will it happen?

When Jesus said ALL that believe on him would be raised on the last day, it leaves no ambiguity as to who would be included in this resurrection, and it leaves no ambiguity about when it will happen...If ALL are changed in a moment, in a twinkle of an eye, then any resurrection before the tribulation would not fit this criteria...the tribulation saints and the two witnesses are all new testament believers, so they would be included in the all that believe category, but they can't be resurrected before the tribulation for they have not been yet killed..

The other thing that needs to be mentioned is the scripture about not being appointed to wrath...pre trib claims this verse means one must be raptured before the tribulation so they will not suffer the wrath of God...but this is not true.

It means as long as we are believers we will not be subject to God's wrath, and has nothing to do with whether we are alive during the tribulation or before the tribulation...God's wrath is on his enemies, not on the believers...so even if you are alive during the tribulation and the wrath of God is being poured out, we can rest assured it will not be poured out on the believers for, as it says, 'we are not appointed to wrath.' 

Yes, we will suffer tribulation, but what did Paul say? Who shall separate us from the love of Christ...shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril or sword? None of these things are God's wrath...even though we may go through all of the above...

I was also blessed to see you included Rev. 11:18 in your post...this is another highly ignored verse which would cure almost every defect in the pre trib world if it was just believed...It plainly says 'Now is the time of the dead that they should be judged..' Pre trib has the saints resurrected, judged and rewarded before the tribulation begins, but Rev. 11:18 says at the seventh trumpet is when the saints, the prophets, and all those who fear his name, both small and great, will be resurrected, judged and rewarded...Pre trib can not have it both ways...the saints can't be resurrected, judged and rewarded before the tribulation and also be resurrected, judged and rewarded after the tribulation...

Blessings to you- Gary

[backontrack]

Why did Elijah and Enoch get raptured? 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 6/23/2023 at 1:05 PM, backontrack said:

Why did Elijah and Enoch get raptured? 

It's appointed unto man once to die... and these 2 never died, so they will return and be the 2 witnesses!

It's gonna be on the news when all dat goes down!

[backontrack]

11 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

It's appointed unto man once to die... and these 2 never died, so they will return and be the 2 witnesses!

It's gonna be on the news when all dat goes down!

I won't be around to see provided rapture occurs