Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Uriah]

Your chart has the tribulation (in red) continuing through Rev. 13.  Yet the next segment starts at Rev. 8 So you DO believe that events are out of sequence as listed. You just do not apply this to the JUDGMENTS that are announced after ch.8. You drag the A/C back a few chapters. I don't Mind that, I just don't see justification for not doing the same for the the judgments too-they fit! 

I think you also hint at people surviving into the millennium (paraph.), which is true. Would these be believers? The angel of Rev. 14 with the everlasting Gospel doesn't mean anyone gets saved, you think? Moved back to ch. 8 too? Then the Lord says "...come out of her MY PEOPLE...later on. Another move back?  What in the wide world of sports are His people doing there if nobody gets saved after the rapture?

And of course when you look at Rev. 19 we can easily see the SAINTS in the air (sky/heaven) and are only now given their new attire! Remembe the teaching of Jesus- cannot get in without the proper attire. Otherwise she must have been in heaven naked and chowing down for years. THAT is the rapture! Jesus rescues His bride on the day that the fullness of God's wrath is poured out.

Don't see it? Jesus Himself gave only two O.T. references for the subject. Noah and Lot. In both cases God's people were saved on the VERY DAY that the judgment of God came down from the sky above. Then He said, "...it will be just like this..."

[Brother Duke]

On 7/2/2018 at 8:26 AM, Uriah said:

So I don't believe the pre trib/wrath teachings because they collide with scripture.

Hi Uriah,

 

Are you post wrath then before we are all caught up with the Lord?

[Uriah]

I believe we will be caught up in the rapture on the day Jesus comes for the second time- for the battle of Armageddon.

[HAZARD]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:57 PM, Uriah said:

I believe we will be caught up in the rapture on the day Jesus comes for the second time- for the battle of Armageddon.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 1 Thess 4:16-17.

1 Thess, 4:16-17.

V. 16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 
    17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[Uriah]

11 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

See, the transition from the Old to the New Testament did not come with observation. The same thing will occur now in the transition from the New Testament to the Kingdom of God.  
Oseas
thedayoflord@gmail.com
 

Hello Oseas,

What does this mean? The Kingdom of God will not be observable?

[Uriah]

11 hours ago, HAZARD said:

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 1 Thess 4:16-17.

1 Thess, 4:16-17.

V. 16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 
    17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

Hello HAZARD,

Thanks for sharing your position on this. In my view, this brings about a terrible dilemma. Look at Matt. 24 and see the believers being gathered....AFTER all those cataclysmic things described-NOT before!

[Still Alive]

When I became a Christian in 1981 I started attending Assembly of God. Naturally that made me a pre-tribulationist. Then I got my hands on a book called "Soon Coming World Shaking Events as Foretold by God Almighty". It promoted mid-trib. I brought it to my "end times specialist" teacher and he shared with me a white paper supporting pre-trib vs mid or post. I was very excited to be convinced more thoroughly of pre-trib. Who wouldn't.

But his paper was so poorly convincing that it MORE convinced me in mid-trib. I became a strong mid-tribulationist. I used to argue it constantly and studied prophesy hard.

BTW.  To be clear, a better name for my belief (which I hold to this day) is "post-trib, pre-wrath".

But I had a breakthrough about 20 years ago. I don't really remember the catalyst, but I don't follow this issue any more. The reason is that the more I studied the bible and prayed for wisdom, the less important this issue became. I now see bible prophesy as a thing to be studied so you know it's fulfilment when you see it, but that's about it. I "lean" to my "post trib, pre wrath" position, but I'm not married to it. I just believe that His will will be done and when the events take place, I'll understand what's happening,

I've switched my focus more on just living my life in an Ecclesiastes way and being prepared to share the good news with anyone who will listen. And even more important, focusing on the two things that matter more than anything else to me, from a Christian perspective:

1. My relationship with my Creator.

2. My relationship with my fellow man.

The rest is all either a help or a hindrance to those two.

[Uriah]

Hello Still Alive,

I also believed pre trib at first. Like you I began reading for myself and learned otherwise. In my view anything but post-trib simply pushes all of the problems of pre-trib back a bit further. 

I still discuss it because I can see the damage that ANY false teaching can do. I am afraid most will be hit blind sided and wonder why they were deceived by other trusted teachers. 

[Still Alive]

19 minutes ago, Uriah said:

I still discuss it because I can see the damage that ANY false teaching can do. I am afraid most will be hit blind sided and wonder why they were deceived by other trusted teachers. 

Same here. Man, the popularity of those "Left Behind" books bothered me. Have you ever noticed how contrived everything in those books and movies have to become to fit the narrative?

I only really get involved to try to keep people from getting wrapped around the axle on this stuff. It's fun, but too easy to get caught up in the type of stuff that Titus 3:9 warns against.

[Uriah]

Agreed. Yeah I try to get people to actually read the scriptures and believe them.