Apostasy

[WilliamL]

On 12/16/2021 at 6:26 PM, luigi said:

When the Lord speaks to us in the Olivet discourse in regards to Daniel where someone stands where he should not in the temple;.... is this in regards to an event that preceded the Lord by a couple of centuries?

Is the Lord speaking of a stone building in which the Antichrist shall stand, when the temple in which God dwells is in the hearts of His people?

The Lord in the Olivet discourse said "holy place": no mention of any stone Temple. The site of the sanctuary is itself holy, Temple or no. Daniel 9:17; 1 Chr. 22:1

Yes, there is a spiritual naos/sanctuary (not heiros/temple) that Paul spoke of many times. But Daniel 12:11's "abomination of desolation," which passage Jesus quoted, was not speaking about the Church. This was a prophecy to Jews about Jewish worship, not Christian.

[luigi]

19 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The Lord in the Olivet discourse said "holy place": no mention of any stone Temple. The site of the sanctuary is itself holy, Temple or no. Daniel 9:17; 1 Chr. 22:1

Yes, there is a spiritual naos/sanctuary (not heiros/temple) that Paul spoke of many times. But Daniel 12:11's "abomination of desolation," which passage Jesus quoted, was not speaking about the Church. This was a prophecy to Jews about Jewish worship, not Christian.

Good morning WilliamL,

Daniels people are the faithful in God throughout the world. There is no separation of people who are faithful to what Christ is. Do you not believe the Word of God in Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11?

Galations 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

The information in Daniel chapters 11 and 12 to which Daniel inquires from the angel to its meaning in Daniel 12:8, to which Daniel is informed is sealed until the matters therein take place, is during the end times (Daniel 12:9). The information in those chapters regard the whole world, include the abomination of desolation along with the Holy people (Daniel 11:30-39), who are all the faithful in God throughout the world.

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

[WilliamL]

On 12/22/2021 at 6:49 AM, luigi said:

Daniels people are the faithful in God throughout the world. There is no separation of people who are faithful to what Christ is. Do you not believe the Word of God in Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11?

Galations 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

When Gabriel prophesied to Daniel, there was no Church, and Christ had not come. For you to therefore try to equate "Daniel's people" to the Church shows a complete lack of understanding. Daniel was praying about "my people Israel" (9:20), not the "people who are faithful to what Christ is," as you put it.

God has covenants with the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that predate the Church, and are exclusive to that people alone. As Paul so explains in Romans 11.

[luigi]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

When Gabriel prophesied to Daniel, there was no Church, and Christ had not come. For you to therefore try to equate "Daniel's people" to the Church shows a complete lack of understanding. Daniel was praying about "my people Israel" (9:20), not the "people who are faithful to what Christ is," as you put it.

God has covenants with the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that predate the Church, and are exclusive to that people alone. As Paul so explains in Romans 11.

Are you able to understand that true Israel is spiritual and not carnal? True believing in Christ Christians are true Israel, while physically born Jews, who do not believe in truth, justice, and loving their neighbor as themselves, are in fact not true spiritual Israel.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

[Ani Tefillah]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:46 PM, FortifiedbyFaith said:

I believe without the Holy Spirit indwelled many a soul are lost and regardless of how intelligent and informed they are they will not be able to determine the truth or have discernment in matters unless the Holy Spirit leads. 

That's true, but I have experienced myself (the hard way), that I also need to be strong in the sum of the Holy Word, so I can be able to know Him and His truth, His will. 

I've noticed that some in here talks about "revival" in the last days, but they're not (?) mentioning the "great falling away/the apostasy", I wonder why? 

Where I live, in Norway 🇳🇴, there's no revival that I know of, but the apostasy has grown huge the last 20 years! Which grieves 😔 me a lot, even if I know that it "must happen". 

For 20+ years ago I was an apostasy myself, until the Lord gave me an huge WAKE up call, and today I have deep sorrow when I think about those who have fallen away. 

[teddyv]

22 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

I wish I could go back into time and get a glimpse at what was taking place when this thread was created and what the thread creator was understanding in their mind.

 

And then I wished I could see the posts and discussions taking place from then until when George admitted he had not been on the forum much but recently began participating.

 

Not knowing or understanding puts me in a blind spot so I have to go by how Members are now interacting with George, including Mods.   Because it appears that there was beliefs that became normal and then when I've recently read George's views and those disagreeing, it seems like a real spiritual battle taking place.

 

Personally, I think a few members are being downright disrespectful to George and I classify that as they believe one way, and George is proving how they believe to not be Biblical.   My Prayers are for George and that his Views become a Staple and these other False beliefs become impotent and if there was an acceptance for them there will now be a disagreement.

 

You can really feel within your spirit where these Members and Mods are coming that very much read like they're Attacking George.

 

So going back to page one of this Thread and to the Original Post, AMEN, Satan is definitely on these Forums and we're reading him more than we should be!

The OP is not particularly specific about what the issue is, but there was a lot (and still is) a fair bit of debate around pretrib dispensationalism, which I believe the OP adheres. That may be the impetus of the thread. 

[BibleGuy]

On 10/24/2021 at 2:51 PM, missmuffet said:

I am seeing a lot of apostasy in our Christian world today and on Worthy. This may be somewhat long but a good read.

Apostasy, from the Greek word apostasia, means “a defiance of an established system or authority; a rebellion; an abandonment or breach of faith.” In the first-century world, apostasy was a technical term for political revolt or defection. Just like in the first century, spiritual apostasy threatens the Body of Christ today.
The Bible warns about people like Arius (c. AD 250—336), a Christian priest from Alexandria, Egypt, who was trained at Antioch in the early fourth century. About AD 318, Arius accused Bishop Alexander of Alexandria of subscribing to Sabellianism, a false teaching that asserted that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were merely roles or modes assumed by God at various times. Arius was determined to emphasize the oneness of God; however, he went too far in his teaching of God’s nature. Arius denied the Trinity and introduced what appeared on the surface to be an inconsequential difference between the Father and Son.

Arius argued that Jesus was not homoousios (“of the same essence”) as the Father, but was rather homoiousios (“of similar essence”). Only one Greek letter—the iota (ι)—separated the two. Arius described his position in this manner: “The Father existed before the Son. There was a time when the Son did not exist. Therefore, the Son was created by the Father. Therefore, although the Son was the highest of all creatures, he was not of the essence of God.”

Arius was clever and did his best to get the people on his side, even going so far as to compose little songs that taught his theology, which he tried to teach to everyone who would listen. His winsome nature, asceticism, and revered position as a preacher also contributed to his cause.

With respect to apostasy, it is critical that all Christians understand two important things: (1) how to recognize apostasy and apostate teachers, and (2) why apostate teaching is so deadly.

The Forms of Apostasy
To fully identify and combat apostasy, Christians should understand its various forms and the traits that characterize its doctrines and teachers. As to the forms of apostasy, there are two main types: (1) a falling away from key and true doctrines of the Bible into heretical teachings that claim to be “the real” Christian doctrine, and (2) a complete renunciation of the Christian faith, which results in a full abandonment of Christ.

Arius represents the first form of apostasy—a denial of key Christian truths (such as the divinity of Christ) that begins a downhill slide into a full departure from the faith, which is the second form of apostasy. The second form almost always begins with the first. A heretical belief becomes a heretical teaching that splinters and grows until it pollutes all aspects of a person’s faith, and then the end goal of Satan is accomplished, which is a complete falling away from Christianity.

A 2010 study by Daniel Dennett and Linda LaScola called “Preachers Who Are Not Believers.” Dennett and LaScola’s work chronicles five different preachers who over time were presented with and accepted heretical teachings about Christianity and now have completely fallen away from the faith. These pastors are either pantheists or clandestine atheists. One of the most disturbing truths highlighted in the study is that these preachers maintain their position as pastors of Christian churches with their congregations being unaware of their leader’s true spiritual state.

The Characteristics of Apostasy and Apostates
Jude was the half brother of Jesus and a leader in the early church. In his New Testament letter, he outlines how to recognize apostasy and strongly urges those in the body of Christ to contend earnestly for the faith (Jude 1:3). The Greek word translated “contend earnestly” is a compound verb from which we get the word agonize. It is in the present infinitive form, which means that the struggle will be continuous. In other words, Jude says that there will be a constant fight against false teaching and that Christians should take it so seriously that we “agonize” over the fight in which we are engaged. Moreover, Jude makes it clear that every Christian is called to this fight, not just church leaders, so it is critical that all believers sharpen their discernment skills so that they can recognize and prevent apostasy in their midst.

After urging his readers to contend earnestly for the faith, Jude highlights the reason: “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ” (Jude 1:4). In this one verse, Jude provides Christians with three traits of apostasy and apostate teachers:

First, Jude says that apostasy can be subtle. Apostates have “crept” into the church. In extra-biblical Greek, the term Jude uses describes the cunning craftiness of a lawyer who, through clever argumentation, infiltrates the minds of courtroom officials and corrupts their thinking. The word literally means “slip in sideways; come in stealthily; sneak in.” In other words, Jude says it is rare that apostasy begins in an overt and easily detectable manner. Instead, it looks a lot like Arius’s doctrine—only a single letter, the iota, differentiates the false teaching from the true.

Describing this aspect of apostasy and its underlying danger, A. W. Tozer wrote, “So skilled is error at imitating truth, that the two are constantly being mistaken for each another. It takes a sharp eye these days to know which brother is Cain and which is Abel.” The apostle Paul also speaks to the outwardly pleasing behavior of apostates and their teaching: “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:13–14). In other words, do not look for apostates to appear bad on the outside or speak dramatic words of heresy at the outset of their teaching. Rather than denying truth outright, apostates will twist it to fit their own agenda, but, as pastor R. C. Lensky has noted, “The worst forms of wickedness consist in perversions of the truth.”

Second, Jude describes apostates as “ungodly” and as those who use God’s grace as a license to commit unrighteous acts. Beginning with “ungodly,” Jude describes eighteen unflattering traits of apostates: they are ungodly (Jude 1:4), morally perverted (verse 4), denying Christ (verse 4), ones who defile the flesh (verse 8), rebellious (verse 8), people who revile angels (verse 8), who are ignorant about God (verse 8), those who proclaim false visions (verse 10), self-destructive (verse 10), grumblers (verse 16), faultfinders (verse 16), self-satisfying (verse 16), people who use arrogant words and false flattery (verse 16), mockers of God (verse 18), those who cause divisions (verse 19), worldly minded (verse 19), and finally (and not surprisingly), devoid of the Spirit/unsaved (verse 19).

Third, Jude says apostates “deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” How do apostates do this? Paul tells us in his letter to Titus, “To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed” (Titus 1:15–16). Through their unrighteous behavior, the apostates show their true selves. Unlike an apostate, a true believer is someone who has been delivered from sin to righteousness in Christ and who refuses to continue in sin (Romans 6:1–2).

Ultimately, the sign of an apostate is that he eventually falls away and departs from the truth of God’s Word and His righteousness. The apostle John signifies this is a mark of a false believer: “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us” (1 John 2:19).

Ideas Have Consequences
Every New Testament book except Philemon contains warnings about false teaching. Why is this? Simply because ideas have consequences. Right thinking and its fruit produce goodness, whereas wrong thinking and its accompanying action result in undesired penalties. As an example, the Cambodian killing fields in the 1970s were the product of the nihilistic worldview of Jean Paul Sartre and his teaching. The Khmer Rouge’s leader, Pol Pot, lived out Sartre’s philosophy toward the people in a clear and frightening way, which was articulated in this manner: “To keep you is no benefit. To destroy you is no loss.”

Satan did not come to the first couple in the Garden with an external armament or visible weapon; instead, he came to them with an idea. And it was that idea, embraced by Adam and Eve, that condemned them and the rest of humankind, with the only remedy being the sacrificial death of God’s Son.

The great tragedy is that, knowingly or unknowingly, the apostate teacher dooms his unsuspecting followers. Speaking to His disciples about the religious leaders of His day, Jesus said, “Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit” (Matthew 15:14, emphasis added). Alarmingly, it is not only false teachers who go to destruction, but their disciples follow them there. Christian philosopher Søren Kierkegaard put it this way: “For it has never yet been known to fail that one fool, when he goes astray, takes several others with him.”

Conclusion
In AD 325, the Council of Nicea convened primarily to take up the issue of Arius and his teaching. Much to Arius’s dismay, the end result was his excommunication and a statement in the Nicene Creed that affirms Christ’s divinity: “We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten of his Father, of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father.”

Arius may have died centuries ago, but his spiritual children are still with us to this day in the form of cults like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and others who deny Christ’s true essence and person. Sadly, until Christ returns and every last spiritual enemy has been removed, tares such as these will be present among the wheat (Matthew 13:24–30). In fact, Scripture says apostasy will only get worse as Christ’s return approaches. “At that time [the latter days] many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another” (Matthew 24:10). Paul told the Thessalonians that a great falling away would precede Christ’s second coming (2 Thessalonians 2:3) and that the end times would be characterized by tribulation and hollow religious charlatans: “But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be . . . holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; avoid such men as these” (2 Timothy 3:1–2, 5).

It is critical, now more than ever, that every believer pray for discernment, combat apostasy, and contend earnestly for the faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints.

https://www.gotquestions.org/apostasy.html

 

Hi there!

Looks like you overlooked a key property of apostasy:  Ac. 21:21 shows that "ἀποστασία" is in reference to disobedience to the Torah of Moses (where Paul affirms a vow to confirm that it is GOOD that thousands of believers continue to walk in obedience to Torah).

Again, 2Th.2:3 shows that "ἀποστασία" is in the context of LAWLESSNESS (i.e., Torah-lessness).  So again, we see that "ἀποστασία" against Torah is bad.

CONCLUSION:  Torah-obedience is good and Biblical and required!

Blessings!

 

 

 

[angels4u]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:52 PM, Heaven_Bound said:

I wish I could go back into time and get a glimpse at what was taking place when this thread was created and what the thread creator was understanding in their mind.

 

And then I wished I could see the posts and discussions taking place from then until when George admitted he had not been on the forum much but recently began participating.

 

Not knowing or understanding puts me in a blind spot so I have to go by how Members are now interacting with George, including Mods.   Because it appears that there was beliefs that became normal and then when I've recently read George's views and those disagreeing, it seems like a real spiritual battle taking place.

 

Personally, I think a few members are being downright disrespectful to George and I classify that as they believe one way, and George is proving how they believe to not be Biblical.   My Prayers are for George and that his Views become a Staple and these other False beliefs become impotent and if there was an acceptance for them there will now be a disagreement.

 

You can really feel within your spirit where these Members and Mods are coming that very much read like they're Attacking George.

 

So going back to page one of this Thread and to the Original Post, AMEN, Satan is definitely on these Forums and we're reading him more than we should be!

We are in a spiritual battle, George is usually very busy and doesn't have much time to be on the forum, and you're right to say that different teachings were trying to creep in, George is explaining to everybody who wants to hear  the truth  how he is seeing prophecy being fulfilled and God's plan for Israel, He loves Israel and is married to a Jewish woman, and they have 2 children, they lived in Israel but couldn't go back when Covid hit, from then on he up to the day of today  is evangelizing in the States  .

This forum used to be a Spirit filled forum and hopefully that will happen again but can only happen if there is unity between the members and false doctrine needs to be dealt with. Remember what bring us together and that's only by grace through Jesus death .

He is Risen brother, Jesus is alive,the stone has been rolled away!

 

[angels4u]

9 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

My desire is to see this Forum how you presented it once was.  I am for George and pray for him because not just his Ministry on the road and in his church, but this Forum represents his legacy and work for God.

We do have to realize that it's by the grace of God we are saved, and we need His Holy Spirit also for rightly dividing the Word, we have to be so careful to who we listen these days as the enemy knows his days are counted, how closer we get to the end how more he will try to deceive nations and the Jews and us, he's trying to set up his kingdom but we know that will be here not very long..

[Fidei Defensor]

St. James indicates one can be restored from Lapsi/apostasy to orthodoxy:

“James 5:19-20

[19] My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, [20] let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”