Revelation 10

[Dennis1209]

The Old Testament Is The New Testament Concealed, The New Testament Is The Old Testament Revealed.

I like this explanation:

The mystery of God: The connection of the mystery with the seventh trumpet may indicate that the mystery is the full establishment of God’s kingdom (see 11:15–18.)

Elsewhere in the N.T., the mystery is linked with God’s incorporation of Gentiles into His family through the death and resurrection of Jesus (Rom 16:25–26; Eph 1:9; 3:3–9; Col 1:26–27). But the seventh trumpet’s connection to the kingdom of God and His Messiah (see Rev 11:15) suggests that Paul’s views about Gentile inclusion are probably not intended here. It would have been a mystery as to why God’s kingdom was not established with the downfall of Greece according to Daniel’s presentation (see Dan 8:17). Likewise, for those who understood Jesus to be the Messiah, it would have been equally mysterious that He did not inaugurate the kingdom in a tangible, political sense. The angel’s proclamation here, the seventh trumpet, and the concluding chapters of John’s Revelation make sense of this mystery.

The mystery: A Gr. term meaning “to shut” or “to close.” In the NT, a “mystery” is a truth that God concealed but has revealed through Christ and His apostles (cf. Rom. 16:25). Here the mystery is the final consummation of all things as God destroys sinners and establishes His righteous kingdom on earth.

As He declared: This mystery, though not fully revealed, was declared to God’s prophets (cf. Amos 3:7).[1]

[1] MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 2005). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

 

[truth7t7]

On 1/31/2022 at 10:57 AM, Josheb said:

Irony. 

MacArthur does not practice that concept with much consistency. If he did, he would not be Dispensationalist. 

 

Just saying

Dont forget to add Gentry, Riddlebarger, and Boettner to the list, just saying

Edited February 2, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

13 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Non sequitur. 

 

Did I not read you report you don't read extra-biblical sources? Have you ever read MacArthur? Gentry? Riddlebarger? Boettner? Walvoord? Jackson? Are you aware MacArthur is not the originator of "The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed"? 

I have read several quotes in forums over the years from posters using these individuals for supporting claims

The reformed Preterist false prophetic fulfillments claimed, are as much a lie as Dispensationalism's pre-trib rapture, and more deceptive in my opinion

Edited February 2, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

Therefore, everything you know is anecdotal second-hand and third-hand report and not source material. 

AND.... 

The prior claim not to consider outside sources proves incorrect. 

Which is an opinion based on second- and third-hand sources and not original sources. 

AND.... 

Despite the postured hostility against preterism it is clear to everyone reading your posts many of your views are preterist. 

Do you not see that?

Do you see the event described below as the end of human mortal life, or does this mortal life continue on this earth?

Matthew 13:37-43KJV

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to

[WilliamL]

On 1/27/2022 at 5:20 PM, Josheb said:

I would ask where the rapture is mentioned in Hebrews 12, but I suspect the results will be no different than asking where the scriptures state the Church will be resurrected at a specific point in the future.

This is representative of Kingdom Now Preterism eschatology. Good luck with that. It will not serve anyone well in the coming evil days.

On 1/27/2022 at 5:20 PM, Josheb said:

Hebrews 12:25
See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking.

Why did you not quote the whole verse? Because the following parts of the passage are a clear prophecy of some prominent events to occur at the time of the Rapture:

Hebrews 12:25 See to it that you do not refuse He who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven. 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once [more] I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."

This voice, along with the dual heaven-and-earth shakings yet to come, are foretold in the following resurrection and rapture passages:

1 Thes. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of an archangel, and with a trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Thereafter we, the ones living, the ones remaining, shall be caught up together with them [the resurrected dead] in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be together with the Lord. 

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

To say that the passage of Hebrews 12:22-28 has nothing to do with the End Time coming of Christ to Rapture the elect, His "Church of the Firstborn," is simply willful blindness. (But that is the fruit of Preterism.)

No part of the above passages have so far been fulfilled, including Hebrews 12:25. Paul did not state that the fulfillment of verse 25 is separate and distinct from the fulfillment of verses 22-24 that precede it. So I stand with what I have written.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, WilliamL said:

This is representative of Kingdom Now Preterism eschatology. Good luck with that. It will not serve anyone well in the coming evil days.

Why did you not quote the whole verse? Because the following parts of the passage are a clear prophecy of some prominent events to occur at the time of the Rapture:

Hebrews 12:25 See to it that you do not refuse He who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven. 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once [more] I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."

This voice, along with the dual heaven-and-earth shakings yet to come, are foretold in the following resurrection and rapture passages:

1 Thes. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of an archangel, and with a trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Thereafter we, the ones living, the ones remaining, shall be caught up together with them [the resurrected dead] in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be together with the Lord. 

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

To say that the passage of Hebrews 12:22-28 has nothing to do with the End Time coming of Christ to Rapture the elect, His "Church of the Firstborn," is simply willful blindness. (But that is the fruit of Preterism.)

No part of the above passages have so far been fulfilled, including Hebrews 12:25. Paul did not state that the fulfillment of verse 25 is separate and distinct from the fulfillment of verses 22-24 that precede it. So I stand with what I have written.

I fully agree, Hebrews 12:26-27 is speaking of this heaven and earth being removed 2 Peter 3:10-13, and that remaining will be the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, as seen in Revelation 21:1-5, a literal future event unfulfilled 

Hebrews 12:26-27KJV

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Edited February 9, 2022 by truth7t7

[WilliamL]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:20 PM, Josheb said:

Stop jumping around from text to text to text and stick with one claim at a time. 

Stop telling me how to interpret scripture according to your rules.

[truth7t7]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:20 AM, Josheb said:

Focus. 

Hebrews 12 does not mention any rapture. 

You read a rapture into its text. 

Hebrews 12 does not mention any rapture.

The fact has nothing to do with preterism. 

Hebrews 12 does not mention any rapture.

Stop jumping around from text to text to text and stick with one claim at a time. Hebrews 12 does NOT mention a rapture. What Hebrews 12 does do is speak to the first century readers about events the first-century readers would experience. The "you" of Hebrews 12 is the original readers of the original epistle, not 21st century readers of English translated Greek manuscripts of the epistle. 

Hebrews 12 does not mention any rapture.

You have NOT proven otherwise. 

Hebrews was written to the church, past, present, future, those who are written in heaven, the lambs book of life

The claim of exclusive 1st century believers isnt found in scripture 

Hebrews 12:23-24KJV

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Edited February 15, 2022 by truth7t7

[Alive]

Please lets refrain from personal inferences…it does little to further the topic at hand.