Dennis1209 Posted January 6, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 349 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,532 Content Per Day: 2.69 Reputation: 5,425 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2022 RAPTURE - FALLING AWAY 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (ESV) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction Geneva Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any meanes: for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, even yͤ sonne of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, The rebellion in this verse (ESV) has been the topic of much discussion. Various translations also use falling away (KJV) or apostasy (NASB). It is argued that earlier Bibles prior to King James, such as the 1599 Geneva Bible, show the translation of this Greek word differently and correctly. This version states: “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.” As you can see, it speaks of a departing. That’s quite different than apostasy. Interpreted as a rebellion or falling away implies that there will be a massive turning from the truth of the Gospel, i.e., away from belief in God. If seen as a departure, it is considered as a description of the Rapture. There are good arguments on both sides of this issue. I’m agnostic about it. If it means that a wholesale turning away from the Lord happens prior to the Rapture, I’m good with that because we’re certainly seeing that in these latter days. If instead it means that the man of lawlessness can only be revealed once the Rapture occurs, that’s even better in my book. Regardless of these two interpretations, something dramatic happens, and only then can the Antichrist come forth onto the world stage. There is a restraining force in play that keeps him hidden. It is God Himself who holds back lawlessness until the right time (2 Thessalonians 2:6). The Restrainer, of course, is the Holy Spirit. The mystery of His restraint is that He indwells every believer. In addition, He is integral to and indwelling the true church of Jesus Christ in its ability for the saints to assemble. Paul states in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8: “For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.” The restraint of the Holy Spirit remains until He is removed (Rapture). Then, and only then, can Antichrist be made known. Is it the apostasy or the departure that enables this to occur? Yes. The apostasy inevitably leads to the Rapture. However, one wants to define the term, the snatching away of believers by Christ in the clouds, and by extension, the removal of the church as a dwelling place for the Spirit on earth, must happen as the first move of God to allow all other events in the end-times scenario. So, are we talking apostacy or Rapture here? All my Greek lexicons support: 646. ἀποστασία apŏstasia, ap-os-tas-ee´-ah; fem. of the same as 647; defection from truth (prop. the state) [“apostasy”]:—falling away, forsake. James Strong, in A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2009), 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 6, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,321 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,076 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2022 NT:646 NT:646 <START GREEK>a)postasi/a <END GREEK> apostasia (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah); feminine of the same as NT:647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ["apostasy"]: KJV - falling away, forsake. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearningToLetGo Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 What day is referred to with "for that day shall not come"? What is that phrase talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,995 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,693 Content Per Day: 11.71 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 The Bible tells us there will be a great apostasy during the end times. It refers to a general defection from the true God, the Bible and the Christian faith. Jesus warned the disciples concerning the final days Matthew 24: 10-12. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,995 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,693 Content Per Day: 11.71 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 38 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said: What day is referred to with "for that day shall not come"? What is that phrase talking about? That has to do with the Antichrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: RAPTURE - FALLING AWAY 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (ESV) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction Geneva Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any meanes: for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, even yͤ sonne of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, The rebellion in this verse (ESV) has been the topic of much discussion. Various translations also use falling away (KJV) or apostasy (NASB). It is argued that earlier Bibles prior to King James, such as the 1599 Geneva Bible, show the translation of this Greek word differently and correctly. This version states: “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.” As you can see, it speaks of a departing. That’s quite different than apostasy. Interpreted as a rebellion or falling away implies that there will be a massive turning from the truth of the Gospel, i.e., away from belief in God. If seen as a departure, it is considered as a description of the Rapture. There are good arguments on both sides of this issue. I’m agnostic about it. If it means that a wholesale turning away from the Lord happens prior to the Rapture, I’m good with that because we’re certainly seeing that in these latter days. If instead it means that the man of lawlessness can only be revealed once the Rapture occurs, that’s even better in my book. Regardless of these two interpretations, something dramatic happens, and only then can the Antichrist come forth onto the world stage. There is a restraining force in play that keeps him hidden. It is God Himself who holds back lawlessness until the right time (2 Thessalonians 2:6). The Restrainer, of course, is the Holy Spirit. The mystery of His restraint is that He indwells every believer. In addition, He is integral to and indwelling the true church of Jesus Christ in its ability for the saints to assemble. Paul states in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8: “For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.” The restraint of the Holy Spirit remains until He is removed (Rapture). Then, and only then, can Antichrist be made known. Is it the apostasy or the departure that enables this to occur? Yes. The apostasy inevitably leads to the Rapture. However, one wants to define the term, the snatching away of believers by Christ in the clouds, and by extension, the removal of the church as a dwelling place for the Spirit on earth, must happen as the first move of God to allow all other events in the end-times scenario. So, are we talking apostacy or Rapture here? All my Greek lexicons support: 646. ἀποστασία apŏstasia, ap-os-tas-ee´-ah; fem. of the same as 647; defection from truth (prop. the state) [“apostasy”]:—falling away, forsake. James Strong, in A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2009), 15. Dennis,I think we're talking about the rapture here,the AC cannot be released before the Church( The Restrainer is taken out of the way) I used to believe that many would stray from the truth but lately I believe it means the church is still in the way until the Rapture happens.,with all the evil going on now everyday that day could happen any day... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, LearningToLetGo said: What day is referred to with "for that day shall not come"? What is that phrase talking about? The day that Jesus Christ returns shall not come except there be a falling away first. Many will be deceived and will worship Satan (fall away and depart from the Truth) when Satan appears at the 6th trump claiming to be Jesus. Jesus Christ returns at the 7th Trump. Edited January 7, 2022 by Selah7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearningToLetGo Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 36 minutes ago, missmuffet said: 1 hour ago, LearningToLetGo said: What day is referred to with "for that day shall not come"? What is that phrase talking about? That has to do with the Antichrist. Apparently 2 Thessalonians 2:3 calls back to 2 Thessalonians 2:1 that says "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,". The "for that day shall not come" quote refers to "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ". This was not clear from the snippet in the OP. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,995 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,693 Content Per Day: 11.71 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, angels4u said: Dennis,I think we're talking about the rapture here,the AC cannot be released before the Church( The Restrainer is taken out of the way) I used to believe that many would stray from the truth but lately I believe it means the church is still in the way until the Rapture happens.,with all the evil going on now everyday that day could happen any day... The Holy Spirit will still be present during the 7 year tribulation. There will be a lot of people saved during the 7 year tribulation. If the Holy Spirit was not present during that time no one would be saved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 779 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,961 Content Per Day: 3.03 Reputation: 1,990 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 @Dennis1209 it means falling away as i remember Jesus says "whoever Persevere to the end shall be saved", its about love of many that freeze cold, people become Theologians parroting verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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