The Intended Audience of the Olivet Discourse

[Last Daze]

Who was Jesus talking to when He gave the Olivet discourse recorded in Matthew 24 and Mark 13?  Some say it was only relevant for the Jews. Others say it only pertained to the immediate audience and was fulfilled in the first century.  When Jesus said things like "when you see all these things", who was He addressing?  His immediate audience according to Mark 13:3 was Peter, James, John, and Andrew.  Did it only pertain to those four, or was there a larger audience intended?  If it was intended for a larger audience then who were they?  

The four disciples who Jesus was talking to are representative of both natural Israel and spiritual Israel.  The context determines the relevance.  Some things would take place in the first century and others would be fulfilled centuries later.

First century only

Many of those who believe in the first century fulfillment of the entire Olivet discourse rely on Jesus' use of the pronoun "you" to refer to those present at that time and His statement that "this generation  will not pass away until all these things take place" refers to the same. Here are two familiar prophecies that were given to those present but fulfilled much later:

• The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen; to him you shall listen.   Deuteronomy 18:15

This is Moses giving some final instructions to the children of Israel before they entered the promised land.  Did those Israelis who heard Moses' voice see Jesus?  No, he was referring to the nation.  And another one:

• Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and she will name Him Immanuel.  Isaiah 7:14

This was spoken to king Ahaz.  Was Ahaz around to see the virgin birth of Christ?

And when Jesus said: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." He was referring to the nation Israel as the Greek word genea could be translated.  It could also mean a multitude of people living at a particular time but since some of the things Jesus talked about, like the great tribulation, are still future and everyone from the first century has passed away, it's apparent that He's referring to the natural lineage of Israel not passing away.

Natural Israel only

Some believe that the Olivet discourse is only relevant to natural Israel.  The main reason I expect is that those who are in Judea are told to flee to the mountains.  If that's all that was stated, I'd be inclined to agree but that's not all.  Jesus also says, "Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name."  He did NOT say that they would be hated throughout the Middle East because they were Jews. The majority of natural Israel rejects Christ as the Messiah. Why would they be hated for His name? What He's saying is that around the world, people will be hated and killed because of the name of Jesus.  That verse applies to those who name the name of Christ, spiritual Israel, those who trust in Jesus.  It's describing the beginning of the great tribulation when the mark and image come about.

The abomination of desolation and the ensuing time of great tribulation are central to the Olivet discourse and the return of Christ, future events that will affect both natural and spiritual Israel, although differently.

• So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.  Revelation 12:17

Natural Israel is attacked first and flees to the wilderness.  War is then waged against spiritual Israel.  The Olivet discourse is relevant to both.  And to echo what Jesus said:

• What I say to you I say to all: "Stay alert!"  Mark 13:37

[AdHoc]

18 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Who was Jesus talking to when He gave the Olivet discourse recorded in Matthew 24 and Mark 13?  Some say it was only relevant for the Jews. Others say it only pertained to the immediate audience and was fulfilled in the first century.  When Jesus said things like "when you see all these things", who was He addressing?  His immediate audience according to Mark 13:3 was Peter, James, John, and Andrew.  Did it only pertain to those four, or was there a larger audience intended?  If it was intended for a larger audience then who were they?  

The four disciples who Jesus was talking to are representative of both natural Israel and spiritual Israel.  The context determines the relevance.  Some things would take place in the first century and others would be fulfilled centuries later.

First century only

Many of those who believe in the first century fulfillment of the entire Olivet discourse rely on Jesus' use of the pronoun "you" to refer to those present at that time and His statement that "this generation  will not pass away until all these things take place" refers to the same. Here are two familiar prophecies that were given to those present but fulfilled much later:

• The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen; to him you shall listen.   Deuteronomy 18:15

This is Moses giving some final instructions to the children of Israel before they entered the promised land.  Did those Israelis who heard Moses' voice see Jesus?  No, he was referring to the nation.  And another one:

• Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and she will name Him Immanuel.  Isaiah 7:14

This was spoken to king Ahaz.  Was Ahaz around to see the virgin birth of Christ?

And when Jesus said: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." He was referring to the nation Israel as the Greek word genea could be translated.  It could also mean a multitude of people living at a particular time but since some of the things Jesus talked about, like the great tribulation, are still future and everyone from the first century has passed away, it's apparent that He's referring to the natural lineage of Israel not passing away.

Natural Israel only

Some believe that the Olivet discourse is only relevant to natural Israel.  The main reason I expect is that those who are in Judea are told to flee to the mountains.  If that's all that was stated, I'd be inclined to agree but that's not all.  Jesus also says, "Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name."  He did NOT say that they would be hated throughout the Middle East because they were Jews. The majority of natural Israel rejects Christ as the Messiah. Why would they be hated for His name? What He's saying is that around the world, people will be hated and killed because of the name of Jesus.  That verse applies to those who name the name of Christ, spiritual Israel, those who trust in Jesus.  It's describing the beginning of the great tribulation when the mark and image come about.

The abomination of desolation and the ensuing time of great tribulation are central to the Olivet discourse and the return of Christ, future events that will affect both natural and spiritual Israel, although differently.

• So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.  Revelation 12:17

Natural Israel is attacked first and flees to the wilderness.  War is then waged against spiritual Israel.  The Olivet discourse is relevant to both.  And to echo what Jesus said:

• What I say to you I say to all: "Stay alert!"  Mark 13:37

The answer seems sure to me. Our Lord Jesus addressed "His DISCIPLES"

Matthew 24;1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

The observations, questions and answers had, as their origin, content and limit - The DISCIPLES of Jesus. Bu the Disciples of Jesus were one of THREE peoples on earth; (i) The Nations or Gentiles, (ii) THE Nation of Israel, and (iii) The Church, or New Man. In Matthew the Lord is recorded as answering the questions in regard to ALL THREE PEOPLES. In Mark He is recorded as answering in regard to TWO of the THREE peoples. So His answer was to INFORM DISCIPLES by events they would encounter among the Jews (Matt.24:1-31), events they would encounter among the New Man - His SERVANTS (24:32 - 25:30), and the only event of note for "ALL Nations" - the Judgment Seat of Christ as it pertains to the survivors of the Great Tribulation.

The answer shows God's supreme ability to cover Himself. The question as to WHO was this addressed to is BOTH correctly answered (i) His disciples, which would cover every Christian since Peter, and/or (ii) the DISCIPLES who were present with Him on that day. 

What also helps is to reverse the question. Who would listen to what Jesus said?

1. The Jews? NO. They don't even listen to Moses
2. The Nations (Gentiles)? NO. They don't believe anything about Jesus
3. The Church? Yes - SOME. The parable of the Sower shows that the majority of Christians will not heed the WORD "sown in their hearts"

Edited March 22, 2022 by AdHoc

[WilliamL]

On 3/21/2022 at 1:25 PM, Last Daze said:

The majority of natural Israel rejects Christ as the Messiah. Why would they be hated for His name? What He's saying is that around the world, people will be hated and killed because of the name of Jesus.  That verse applies to those who name the name of Christ, spiritual Israel, those who trust in Jesus.

Well put.

On 3/21/2022 at 1:25 PM, Last Daze said:

when Jesus said: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away..." 24:34

I believe the better (and grammatically correct) interpretation is "that generation." Referring to the generation in which the fig tree is putting forth its leaves (verse 32).

[Last Daze]

57 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Well put.

I believe the better (and grammatically correct) interpretation is "that generation." Referring to the generation in which the fig tree is putting forth its leaves (verse 32).

That's another way to look at it.  I know a lot of people see it that way.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Well put.

I believe the better (and grammatically correct) interpretation is "that generation." Referring to the generation in which the fig tree is putting forth its leaves (verse 32).

 

6 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

That's another way to look at it.  I know a lot of people see it that way.

There is a third way to understand "this generation", and I believe it is the way intended because it is used this way in most of the scriptures that use "generation". It means who and in what condition is "generated". In Genesis Chapter 2 a record is made of what the earth "generated" - plants and trees. According to the Law of "kinds" in Genesis 1:11-12, these plants and trees still grow today. The seed within the kind "generates" the same kind.

In Genesis 5 we have the "generations" of Adam. It is here that much comes to light. According to the aforementioned Law of Kinds, Adam, who was made in the likeness and image of God, should have "generated" Seth in the "likeness and image of God. But he didn't. He "generated" Seth in his OWN likeness and image. Something had fundamentally changed. Sin had come in and Adam's nature had changed (Rom.5:12-19). It is true that a "generation" in the Bible can mean a specific time of generation, but it is never confirmed. Jacob's FOUR generations was four hundred years, but the next generation, some of who were 20 years old, died before they were 58 (within 38 years of Kadesh-Barnea). And Psalm 90:10 pegs a man's life at 70, but immediately makes that variable.

Perhaps the most telling confirmation of the real meaning of "generation" is the Lord calling the Pharisees a "generation of vipers" (Matt.12:34, 23:33). Here it is clear that it is the NATURE of what is generated and not the years. This doubly confirmed by what continues in Matthew 23;

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
He prophesies the destruction of Jerusalem. 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Here, our Lord Jesus gives the blame for Abel's death, and the prophets' deaths to "THIS generation". It is clear that the years could not count for these Pharisees lived nearly 4,000 years after Abel. It is the NATURE of what is GENERATED. This makes it quite correct to say that the Pharisees who stirred the People to call for His death will "generate" the Jews living when Christ comes. It is ONE "generation (of vipers)". Men who "generate" the SERPENT-NATURE.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Here, our Lord Jesus gives the blame for Abel's death, and the prophets' deaths to "THIS generation". It is clear that the years could not count for these Pharisees lived nearly 4,000 years after Abel. It is the NATURE of what is GENERATED. This makes it quite correct to say that the Pharisees who stirred the People to call for His death will "generate" the Jews living when Christ comes. It is ONE "generation (of vipers)". Men who "generate" the SERPENT-NATURE.

An interesting take.

[abcdef]

On 3/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Last Daze said:

Who was Jesus talking to when He gave the Olivet discourse recorded in Matthew 24 and Mark 13?  Some say it was only relevant for the Jews. Others say it only pertained to the immediate audience and was fulfilled in the first century.  When Jesus said things like "when you see all these things", who was He addressing?  His immediate audience according to Mark 13:3 was Peter, James, John, and Andrew.  Did it only pertain to those four, or was there a larger audience intended?  If it was intended for a larger audience then who were they?  

Matt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21, were written by people who were not there in person when Jesus gave His prophecy.

They must have been told what was said by one of the four apostles who were there. So the passages that we have now are second hand knowledge. 

Since they were written to others as accounts of the life of Jesus, to edify them, it would seem that it edifies us also.

-----

The words that were spoken, were spoken directly to those four apostles who were with Jesus at that time, 33 AD.

The four apostles were to see these things happen, wars, famines, earthquakes, then the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem.  

John survived as "this generation".

---

 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Last Daze said:

The four disciples who Jesus was talking to are representative of both natural Israel and spiritual Israel.  The context determines the relevance.  Some things would take place in the first century and others would be fulfilled centuries later.

Yes, and this is where the distortions come in.

The Matt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21, prophecies are about the 70 AD Jerusalem and its restoration to the people of Israel after the times of the gentiles end, Lk 21:20-24, 24.

The times of the gentiles is 70 AD until 1967. (Many skip this time period altogether, trying to make the symbolic numbers literal, the 3 1/2 times, etc..)

In Matt 24:31, Jesus is not telling about the resurrection, He is talking about gathering Israel out of the gentile nations to restore Jerusalem, the 5th trumpet, not the 7th.

Matt 24 is primarily about the 70 Ad destruction of Jerusalem, the times of the gentiles 70 AD- 1967, and then the restoration of Jerusalem.

Matt 25, is about the 70 AD - 1967 times of the gentiles and the second resurrection of the good and evil. (There are only 2 resurrections.) 

There was no resurrection at the 70 AD destruction.

 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Last Daze said:

First century only

Many of those who believe in the first century fulfillment of the entire Olivet discourse rely on Jesus' use of the pronoun "you" to refer to those present at that time and His statement that "this generation  will not pass away until all these things take place" refers to the same. Here are two familiar prophecies that were given to those present but fulfilled much later:

• The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen; to him you shall listen.   Deuteronomy 18:15

This is Moses giving some final instructions to the children of Israel before they entered the promised land.  Did those Israelis who heard Moses' voice see Jesus?  No, he was referring to the nation.  And another one:

• Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and she will name Him Immanuel.  Isaiah 7:14

This was spoken to king Ahaz.  Was Ahaz around to see the virgin birth of Christ?

And when Jesus said: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." He was referring to the nation Israel as the Greek word genea could be translated.  It could also mean a multitude of people living at a particular time but since some of the things Jesus talked about, like the great tribulation, are still future and everyone from the first century has passed away, it's apparent that He's referring to the natural lineage of Israel not passing away.

Jesus was asked when the temple would be destroyed, about the things leading up to the destruction, and the end of the age, the temple age, if you can accept it.

His answer was that it would happen to the generation of the four apostles that He was speaking to, John was still alive after the 70 AD destruction, it seems.

According to some pretrib, Jesus did not answer the questions that He was asked as to the 70 AD destruction at all, but every word is attributed to some time yet to come. This completely disregards the the time frame in which the accounts of Jesus' life were written, less than 35 ish years before the 67 AD -70 AD destruction, this generation.

 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Last Daze said:

Natural Israel only

Some believe that the Olivet discourse is only relevant to natural Israel.  The main reason I expect is that those who are in Judea are told to flee to the mountains.

Israel and Jesus are the center of all scriptural prophecies. Most seem to expand the meanings far beyond the world of the people of Israel.

Matt 24, etc., edifies those who read them, but they are words that Jesus spoke directly to the apostles present at that time and it applies primarily to them.

They were hated by all nations, persecuted, and brought before kings, fulfilling what Jesus said.

 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Last Daze said:

 If that's all that was stated, I'd be inclined to agree but that's not all.  Jesus also says, "Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name."  He did NOT say that they would be hated throughout the Middle East because they were Jews. The majority of natural Israel rejects Christ as the Messiah. Why would they be hated for His name? What He's saying is that around the world, people will be hated and killed because of the name of Jesus.  That verse applies to those who name the name of Christ, spiritual Israel, those who trust in Jesus.

The OT scriptures bear witness of Jesus in the Law and the Prophets. Whoever holds those scriptures is witnessing of Jesus, even if they are not aware that it is Jesus.

The people of Israel themselves, even the unbelieving branches, are a witness to the God of Mt Sinai, that they are God's chosen people, and that He sustains them.

Their restoration to Jerusalem is further proof that the God of Israel is God and that Israel are His people. 

 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Last Daze said:

 It's describing the beginning of the great tribulation when the mark and image come about.

The time of great trouble is shown in the statue of Dan. 2 as the iron.

The trib ends when Israel is restored to Jerusalem, 1967.

The mark, is the mark of Caesar and Rome, again shown as the iron in the statue of Dan. 2.

 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Last Daze said:

The abomination of desolation and the ensuing time of great tribulation are central to the Olivet discourse and the return of Christ, future events that will affect both natural and spiritual Israel, although differently.

Jesus came as God with Roman armies at the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem, but it wasn't a resurrection coming. The resur/rapt coming is yet to come.

People mix up the prophecies about the coming of Jesus at the 70 AD destruction, thinking that it is the resurrection coming. The restoration of Jerusalem, as the resurrection coming. The fall of the present day restored Jerusalem, with the 70 AD fall, and the resur/rapt.

 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Last Daze said:

 

• So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.  Revelation 12:17

Natural Israel is attacked first and flees to the wilderness.  War is then waged against spiritual Israel.  The Olivet discourse is relevant to both.  And to echo what Jesus said:

• What I say to you I say to all: "Stay alert!"  Mark 13:37

The time of the woman in the wilderness ended in 1967, when she returned home to Jerusalem.

The natural believing branches, believed the prophecies of Jesus (Matt 24) and fled into the wilderness of the gentile nations.

The unbelieving natural branches did not believe Jesus, and did not flee. They were either killed or taken as slaves into all nations. One was taken, and one was left dead, where the (dead) body is the eagles will be gathered.

----

[Diaste]

On 3/21/2022 at 1:25 PM, Last Daze said:

Who was Jesus talking to when He gave the Olivet discourse recorded in Matthew 24 and Mark 13?  Some say it was only relevant for the Jews. Others say it only pertained to the immediate audience and was fulfilled in the first century.  When Jesus said things like "when you see all these things", who was He addressing?  His immediate audience according to Mark 13:3 was Peter, James, John, and Andrew.  Did it only pertain to those four, or was there a larger audience intended?  If it was intended for a larger audience then who were they?  

The four disciples who Jesus was talking to are representative of both natural Israel and spiritual Israel.  The context determines the relevance.  Some things would take place in the first century and others would be fulfilled centuries later.

First century only

Many of those who believe in the first century fulfillment of the entire Olivet discourse rely on Jesus' use of the pronoun "you" to refer to those present at that time and His statement that "this generation  will not pass away until all these things take place" refers to the same.

Or since one overarching reality to all prophecy is the eternal nature of the divine and so it's the reader of the prophecy that is the audience. And then who is to say we aren't aware after we depart this dimension? It seems to me the rich man and Lazarus shows we aren't in a coma after death but are fully aware of our surroundings. Would that also include awareness of life and goings on in the mortal realm? If prophecy is unfulfilled on earth it is unfulfilled in heaven, and throughout the universe as well. God has not brought it to pass apart from the eyes and ears of all, including the host of heaven. We know from Revelation angels are instrumental in the prophecy and the souls under the altar are very much aware of present conditions. 

Heaven rejoices at the fall of Babylon:

Rejoice over her, O heaven,

O saints and apostles and prophets,

because God has pronounced for you

His judgment against her.

Saints, apostles and prophets here isn't limited. This would have to include the prophets of old and the 1st century apostles and they will be aware of the fall of Babylon. Prophetic utterance has a wide audience as a witness, as it should be.

Even if the audience was limited to just the 4 apostles present for the end of the age prophecy[in mind it would have to be if consistency of 'audience' is to be maintained] those apostles will still be aware of everything for eternity; especially so if translated to paradise and Abraham's bosom. Then the 'you' is still valid for any space/time moment, even as that isn't the whole answer. It is interesting to me.

Of course this isn't the whole truth of it, but it's a window into prophecy's nature. Prophecy comes from the eternal, it's origin is the Almighty. So time isn't the major factor in fulfillment. The mind of the Eternal Father is the only factor in any prophetic fulfillment. 

But we also know prophecy is fulfilled on this plane of reality. Every prophecy of Jesus' 1st advent and work, up to His death and resurrection, was fulfilled as stated right on the very dirt of the earth; centuries after the prophecies. Many examples of centuries later fulfillment. Immediate fulfillment is also in evidence in scripture but as far as I know it's usually contained in the same text. 

All this is to say prophecy will be fulfilled as God sees fit, not through discernment, rationalization, logic or man's will.

 

 

On 3/21/2022 at 1:25 PM, Last Daze said:

 

Here are two familiar prophecies that were given to those present but fulfilled much later:

• The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen; to him you shall listen.   Deuteronomy 18:15

This is Moses giving some final instructions to the children of Israel before they entered the promised land.  Did those Israelis who heard Moses' voice see Jesus?  No, he was referring to the nation.  And another one:

• Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and she will name Him Immanuel.  Isaiah 7:14

This was spoken to king Ahaz.  Was Ahaz around to see the virgin birth of Christ?

Amen. And many other examples as well.

On 3/21/2022 at 1:25 PM, Last Daze said:

And when Jesus said: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." He was referring to the nation Israel as the Greek word genea could be translated.  It could also mean a multitude of people living at a particular time but since some of the things Jesus talked about, like the great tribulation, are still future and everyone from the first century has passed away, it's apparent that He's referring to the natural lineage of Israel not passing away.

Natural Israel only

Some believe that the Olivet discourse is only relevant to natural Israel.  The main reason I expect is that those who are in Judea are told to flee to the mountains.  If that's all that was stated, I'd be inclined to agree but that's not all.  Jesus also says, "Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name."  He did NOT say that they would be hated throughout the Middle East because they were Jews. The majority of natural Israel rejects Christ as the Messiah. Why would they be hated for His name? What He's saying is that around the world, people will be hated and killed because of the name of Jesus.  That verse applies to those who name the name of Christ, spiritual Israel, those who trust in Jesus.  It's describing the beginning of the great tribulation when the mark and image come about.

Yes. And the fleeing of the inhabitants in Judea is prompted by the event of the A of D. 

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

I have asked for the evidence of the historical occurrence of this many times in other discussions. Just this and not all the other ensuing events and conditions. The Amil, partial pret crowd never address it.

On 3/21/2022 at 1:25 PM, Last Daze said:

The abomination of desolation and the ensuing time of great tribulation are central to the Olivet discourse and the return of Christ, future events that will affect both natural and spiritual Israel, although differently.

• So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.  Revelation 12:17

Natural Israel is attacked first and flees to the wilderness.  War is then waged against spiritual Israel.  The Olivet discourse is relevant to both.  And to echo what Jesus said:

• What I say to you I say to all: "Stay alert!"  Mark 13:37

Amen

[Last Daze]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

And then who is to say we aren't aware after we depart this dimension? It seems to me the rich man and Lazarus shows we aren't in a coma after death but are fully aware of our surroundings.

Completely agree.  And that's in keeping with:

• Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.  So it is to be. Amen.  Revelation 1:7

They may not perceive Him with natural eyes but they will see Him nonetheless.  

[Keras]

This Generation will live to see it all:

Luke 21:29-36 Jesus told them a parable: Look at the fig tree, as soon as it buds you can tell that summer is near. In the same way when you see all this happening, you will know that the Kingdom of God is near. Truly, I tell you the present generation will live to see it all. My words will never pass away.

            Be on your guard, do not let your minds be dulled by dissipation or worldly cares so that the great Day catches you unawares, for that Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over. Be on the alert, praying at all times for strength to pass safely through all that is coming and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.   Ref: REB

 

The present generation - or the generation present: the same thing. When they; those alive to see Judah become a nation again, we will know the end times are upon us.

The fig tree – Israel is the vine, Judah is the fig tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10. The parable of the fig tree applies to the House of Judah, Matthew 21:43. Therefore when Judah starts to bud, that is: becomes a nation again, as they formed the State of Israel in May 1948, then within that generation, [a lifetime of 70 to 80 years] the end times events will commence. Ezekiel 12:25

The great Day – The Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the multi prophesied judgement/punishment of the nations, an event that will come unexpectedly, sudden and shocking all those who have failed to understand the Lord's plans and purposes. Isaiah 29:5-12, Isaiah 66:15-16, Revelation 6:12-17

That Day will come upon everyone – There is no ‘rapture’ at this time, all will go through this judgement. Isaiah 24:1, Psalms 50:1-3, Zephaniah 3:8

Strength to pass safely through – This is often mistranslated as ‘escape all these things’, which is a serious error and is incorrect, as the previous sentence has just stated ‘that Day will come upon everyone’. What the Lord promises, is not a removal from earth – an escape as such, but protection. Psalms 91, Isaiah 43:1-2

The presence of the Son of Man – Jesus called Himself the ‘Son of Man’, when He was present on earth in a human body. This was necessary so as He could become our ‘kinsman Redeemer’. After the great Day of the Lord, when every faithful Christian has gathered in the holy Land, they will stand in His presence when the 144,000 are selected; Revelation 14:1. Then, later at His glorious Return, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords; His Name will be ‘The Word of God’. Revelation 19:13