The alive and remaining are changed - doesn't that mean all the rest died?

[DeighAnn]

20 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

It changes absolutely nothing about the gospel or how we think of the Jews/Israel.  Not a thing.  Every Jewish soul who dies without Christ/Messiah in the meantime will have to face the judgment, just as every Gentile soul without Christ does.  They all need the self-same gospel...it's the gospel that will save them in the end.

If GOD BLINDS them for the Gentiles to be grafted in, WOULD GOD turn around and make them face judgment for that?  Doesn't really seem 'JUST' does it?  I think we need to take GODS plan more into consideration, before we start passing judgment.

Edited March 31, 2022 by DeighAnn

[Heleadethme]

5 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

If GOD BLINDS them for the Gentiles to be grafted in, WOULD GOD turn around and make them face judgment for that?  Doesn't really seem 'JUST' does it?  I think we need to take GODS plan more into consideration, before we start passing judgment.

I'll just answer this one quickly right now....the message of the gospel to repent or perish, to believe in Jesus/Yeshua or perish, was to the JEW FIRST.  Not my judgment, I certainly don't condemn them, but that is what the gospel preaches to the Jew FIRST, then the Gentile. 

Rom 9:18-20

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

 

[DeighAnn]

23 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

And I don't see how there can any shangri-la on earth for a thousand years once this whole world is judged and burned up with nobody left to populate it.  Judgment day is at the coming of the Lord.  The rule and reign of Christ Messiah is now and we are ruling and reigning with Him now......by FAITH. 

What helped me most was when I realized that HEAVEN WAS COMING TO EARTH.  

So we need to step back and 'see' WITH HEAVENLY EYES and not earthy ones.  

YES, EVERYONE WILL DIE (except the alive and remaining) BUT THAT IS ONLY THE FIRST DEATH.  (fear not him who can kill the body...)

The first death is of this EARTH BODY.  What comes from sowing the earth body?  The spiritual body.  

If you look at the order of things taking place

The two witnesses stand up and are taken up and at the same hour there is the earthquake.  THE TWO WITNESSES rising is THE BEGINNING of the change from the SEEN world to the UNSEEN WORLD BEING SEEN.  ALL EYES are being opened to the unseen world and that is why people start running to hide,  ESPECIALLY if they have been worshipping SATAN.

The heavens are opening up.  Christ and the armies are arriving and 'the BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING' is the CHANGING of the 'REALM' on earth.  THE SEVENTH TRUMP has sounded and the kingdoms of the earth have BECOME HIS.  

IT IS the BIRTH of an entirely NEW EXISTENCE/NEW DAY/LORDS DAY.   SO ALL FLESH MUST be changed (flesh and blood can not inherit...)  NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.   UNSAVED AND SAVED.  

So all flesh dies, but MANY of the 'dead rise back up'.



It isn't until ALL have spiritual bodies that the wrath of God reigns down.  SO what is seen as DEATH BY FIRE is actually a CLEANSING FIRE in which all the 'elements' will be burnt up, NOT THE PEOPLES/nations/unsaved.  They have a 1000 years before the 2nd death in the lake of fire that 'can kill both body and soul' 

Too much?  Sorry, not a teacher in any way,  and so I don't know how not to dump way too much even when I understand that part.  Hopefully God has some teachers who can take it and teach it.


 

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

IF YOU BELIEVE THE WORDS OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR YOU WILL QUICKLY REALIZE THAT

BEING SAVED

MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO BE IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH AS THE DEAD ARE because they see decay and

BECAUSE CORRUPTION (decay)  CAN'T INHERIT IMMORTALITY,

IT CAN JUST BECOME IMPERISHABLE
 

[DeighAnn]

19 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

I'll just answer this one quickly right now....the message of the gospel to repent or perish, to believe in Jesus/Yeshua or perish, was to the JEW FIRST.  Not my judgment, I certainly don't condemn them, but that is what the gospel preaches to the Jew FIRST, then the Gentile. 

Rom 9:18-20

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

 

I believe it is so we KEEP IN MIND that HIS PEOPLE are His people and He will not cast them away.  And we shouldn't boast against the branches.

BUT do those 3 verses give us the whole of the truth?  

 

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

Romans 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Romans 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee,


and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

 

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Romans 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Romans 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Do you realize that if Gods word was easy to read and figure out and didn't divide us we wouldn't speak of it, study it, or spread it?  

 

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Too much?  Sorry, not a teacher in any way,  and so I don't know how not to dump way too much even when I understand that part.  Hopefully God has some teachers who can take it and teach it.

Yep, too much for this brain, I'm afraid.  Old and burned out, I guess, and Lord knows what.  All I can say is that Jesus said His kingdom IS NOT OF THIS WORLD.  That was His gospel to the JEW first, the gospel of the kingdom that had been prophesied and is not of this world.   And Jesus and the apostles taught that the judgment is at His coming.  I don't know how the unsaved can dwell on a new earth where only righteousness dwells.

Yes, the Law tutored Israel to Christ Jesus, His person....who in turn opens and reveals the OT scriptures to all our understanding.  Not even the angels understood, but longed to look into these things.   The mystery of God hidden from the foundation of the world and only revealed in Christ.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Heleadethme

[DeighAnn]

It all boils down to IF THE DEAD (unsaved) DON'T RISE

And all flesh from KINGS on down to the small are killed (all flesh)

WHO IS REIGNED OVER FOR THE LORDS DAY?  

Where do the nations come from? 

[transmogrified]

On 3/23/2022 at 1:04 PM, DeighAnn said:

Hopefully I am not going to far out on a limb to suggest that ANYONE who has taken the MARK aka the UNSAVED,  CAN'T BE AMONG THE GROUP to receive immortality. 

The new testament is still in effect during the tribulation....When the angel was preaching the gospel to those on the earth during the tribulation it was not some different gospel than what we have now...Paul said if we or even an angel from heaven preach any gospel than what they had preached to let him be accursed...

The gospel says 'All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven...the only thing that he said he would not forgive was blasphemy of the Holy Ghost which was because they said to Jesus that he was casting out devils by the power of the devil...

Taking the mark is a sin that can be forgiven just like all other manner of sin and blasphemy...we could quote a scripture that says ''the wages of sin is death' and then make it appear that if you sinned then you would die, no way out...but yes, the wages of sin is death, but if you repent of your sins, then you will not die.

The great multitude that came out of great tribulation washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb...why did they wash them? Because they were stained with sin, including taking the mark...

As to 'being among the group to receive immortality,' no, they do not get glorified bodies, rather they enter into the 1000 year reign in mortal bodies that will die...the only ones who get immortal bodies at the Second Coming are the dead in Christ who are resurrected and those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord.

 

[transmogrified]

On 3/31/2022 at 11:45 AM, DeighAnn said:

If GOD BLINDS them for the Gentiles to be grafted in, WOULD GOD turn around and make them face judgment for that?  Doesn't really seem 'JUST' does it?  I think we need to take GODS plan more into consideration, before we start passing judgment.

They were blinded because of unbelief...yes, there are scriptures stating God blinded their eyes, but just like Pharaoh, God knew he would not repent, even though he gave him opportunity to do so...so his foreknowledge and his will are two different things...God knew Peter would deny him three times...it was not God's will for Peter to deny Jesus, but Jesus knew it would happen..

The crux of the matter is that people do not receive the love of the truth, so God sends them strong delusion that they should believe a lie...God did not just randomly send them the strong delusion...they did not receive the love of the truth....this is what put them in the cross hairs...

By their own free will they rejected Jesus, and Paul is saying the same thing about when they get grafted in again...he said IF they remain not in unbelief, God will graft them in again...So yes, God draws them, but they have to willingly consent to his will. 

Blessings to you

[transmogrified]

On 3/23/2022 at 1:04 PM, DeighAnn said:

Since 'the nations' are around for the Millennium,  WHEN DO THE UNSAVED RISE FOR THE MILLENNIUM?  IT WOULD SEEM THEY must rise at the beginning to be coming to the temple to worship and

There are two groups who lie in the graves...the wicked and the righteous...when the righteous are raised, they get immortal bodies, when the wicked are resurrected they get cast into everlasting fire.

The only nations that are saved at the Second Coming are those nations who are still alive at the time he returns...all the armies at Armageddon are killed, but this is just those armies at Armageddon, it is not the whole world...

So the nations that we rule over during the 1000 years do not 'rise' at the beginning of the 1000 years, if by 'rise' you mean 'resurrected.' The nations we rule over are existing people on the earth who are alive at the time Christ returns.

 

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, transmogrified said:

So the nations that we rule over during the 1000 years do not 'rise' at the beginning of the 1000 years, if by 'rise' you mean 'resurrected.' The nations we rule over are existing people on the earth who are alive at the time Christ returns.

Agree.  The nations that go into the millennial reign of Christ will be those who were deceived by false prophet, took his mark, worshiped the image but later repented during the plagues.  The repentant (humble) will inherit the earth.