First Resurrection, is it of Time Place or Rank?

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

BUT you and I know that isn't death AT ALL.  That is just going from one body to the next.  We are NOT LIKE THE HEATHEN in we that we 
 

Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

Matthew 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Matthew 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

 

This speaks to the physical body as differentiated from the soul. 

I know that death is separation from God. That doesn't mean the bodies we have now don't die. They do. There are cemeteries in every town. 

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Do you understand why you've misread the text?

1 Cor 15

"For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable"

 

indestructibility, incorruptibility; hence: immortality.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 861 aphtharsía – properly, no-corruption (unable to experience deterioration); incorruptibility (not perishable), i.e. lacking the very capacity to decay or constitutionally break down. See 862a (aphthartos)

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

- 1 Corinthians 15:52-54 (KJV)

The word used in verse 52 is incorruptible, not imperishable as you indicated in your post.

First, either upon Christ's return or when we die in the flesh, our flesh body is changed into a spiritual  body. 

Second, some of us (Elect/Saints) will be granted eternal life/immortality at Christ's return (The First Resurrection), while others will have to wait until after the 1000 year Millennium when, at the GWTJ, they will either be granted eternal life/immortality (The Second Resurrection) or eternal death (second death) (along with Satan) in The Lake of Fire.  

Now notice the next verse.  It shifts the focus from bodies to souls…

So what 1 Corinthians 15:54 is saying is that when (#1) this corruptible (body) has put on incorruption, and (#2) this mortal (soul) has put on immortality, then the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory,” will come to pass.

in His GRACE, Selah

Edited April 4, 2022 by Selah7

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

We have to aware at all times the context is eternity, one of the contexts. But eternity is a reality that's over everything written. The central preaching of Jesus is life over death, and that life is eternal. So whatever short chaotic life we lead on earth is not the pov we should have concerning the promises of God. We must perceive everything He says concerning prophecy from the pov of the eternal God. 

Now or later the promises of eternity are sure and reliable.

I don't understand what you are telling me. Are you saying that  "I set before you life and death, chose life", that that isn't really true and that if you chose death in this chaotic life and go the way of the world that God lets you try again?  I don't think I understand what you are saying.   I absolutely believe the promises of God are reliable.  

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

a priori

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

as didomi

I don't know what those are


 

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

In any case it's souls under the altar which is the personality, not physical bodies.  

 Does this being written in a different part of the book somehow make the TRUTH of what is written somewhere else just DISAPPEAR and cease to be a truth? If so how does that work?  Where does GOD say 'when' I use the word 'souls' it means a SEPARATION has taken place?

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

DON'T YOU THINK THAT IF THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY THAT WE 'RAISED' WITH NO BODY THAT THIS WOULD BE REMOVED OR THIS WOULD BE ADDED

'OR DO THEY EVEN COME WITH A BODY'?   Just as God has the eternal plan that must BE HELD as truth, so do His truths.  

I ask again and HOPEFULLY YOU WILL GIVE ME AN ANSWER.  HOW DO YOU SEPARATE THE BODY FROM SOUL/SPIRIT for this part of the story?  
 

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, AND TO EVERY SEED HIS OWN BODY.  

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes, the transition from corruption to incorruption takes a mere moment, that doesn't speak to how long the body had been in the ground.

neither doth corruption inherit corruption does

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well, I don't know what not perishable or not corruptible means to you but generally it means not perishable and not corruptible.

 

aphtharsia: incorruptibility

Original Word: ἀφθαρσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: aphtharsia
Phonetic Spelling: (af-thar-see'-ah)
Definition: incorruptibility
Usage: indestructibility, incorruptibility; hence: immortality.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 861 aphtharsía – properly, no-corruption (unable to experience deterioration); incorruptibility (not perishable), i.e. lacking the very capacity to decay or constitutionally break down. See 862a (aphthartos).

The usage and sense here is immortality. Clearly Paul is saying this is immortality. The dead in Christ rise imperishable and immortal.

Did I not show the difference between the two in another post? I thought I did.  

nor the 

5356. phthora ►
Strong's Concordance
phthora: destruction, corruption
Original Word: φθορά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: phthora
Phonetic Spelling: (fthor-ah')
Definition: destruction, corruption
Usage: corruption, destruction, decay, rottenness, decomposition.

the 
861

doth inherit

[Hobie_]

On 4/2/2022 at 10:41 AM, DeighAnn said:

How do they get to be bodyless?  Does God give every seed a body or not?  If He says He does, in no uncertain terms, then where does He negate that in no uncertain terms?

Revelation 6:9 And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here is the problem I have with that.  Either GOD is or isn't the author of confusion.  CONFUSION would be having body less entities who 'cried with a loud voice' and be given a 'white robes' which requires a body.  

Would you agree?

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

What would cause even more confusion FOR ME, is to have the same words mean 'with a body' one time and 'without a body' another.  Especially if God TELLS US 'to every seed a body'.  How is it possible for seeds to go body less if God tells us they all have bodies?

Luke 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.

Genesis 14:21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.


 

Do you realize that 'the last day' never again appears after Christ is crucified?

And the 'last day' Jesus lived and died took place, in which the graves were opened souls were raised,?

And that all individuals themselves have a 'last day' in the flesh?  


Do you believe that the next time Peter sees Jesus is when we all do all at once?  Is that what you read in this conversation?  Does it sound like a group last day or a personal last day?  

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for Thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.


John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in Me, and I in you.


I think people are used to specific compartments for what they believe and they never make those compartments fit with each other to tell the whole story because when we do,  we find one belief is built from another, so who can be wrong about even one?   

'Every seed a body'...'Sown and raised bodies'...and 'neither doth corruption inherit incorruption'.  

We can't be alive in Christ and be dead in Christ.  An inconvenient fact. 

Either 'the unsaved/dead' rise at the beginning of the Lords Day or there is no one to rule and reign over.   

If you look a the verse you quote, it has the answer..."and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

 

Revelation 14:13

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

They rest in the grave...

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Hobie_ said:

If you look a the verse you quote, it has the answer..."and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

 

Revelation 14:13

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

They rest in the grave...

I see where you are coming from.  Thank you for responding.  

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

BECAUSE YOU SAID NO 'DEAD MEN' WERE EVER JUDGED.  If that were TRUTH then how did the souls get under the altar?  How did the saints get on horses?  How are the dead still in the graves with the 'never dies' up in heaven with Christ?  


Are you saying you don't believe that RIGHTEOUS ABEL raised up when the graves opened and Christ led the captivity captive? 

Where does it say the saints under the altar were judged? They call for justice and are told to wait while some more are KILLED. Does our Lord Jesus descend below the altar to judge? Where is your scripture my sister? The judgment is in the air, not under the altar. The saints on horses are ALIVE. Where do you get the idea that they are dead. They have been called to the wedding. "And the Virgins AROSE and trimmed their Lamps". They have been resurrected. Maybe you could think things through a bit.

You have yet to show a verse that says that dead men go to heaven. David, 50 days after Christ's resurrection, and 10 days after His ascension, IS STILL IN HADES AND NOT ASCENDED TO HEAVEN (Act.2.27-35).

Concerning Abel - all you have to do is show scripture. Why won't you?

Show me, from the Bible, how taking captivity works. "Believing" it should be based on God's word.

My esteemed sister, when are we going to discuss scripture and not fairy tales? I have shown you scriptures where the living are judged. There are none when the dead are judged. Why not discuss what God has said, not some Roman Catholic tradition.

[AdHoc]

@DeighAnn@DeighAnn

My dear sister in Christ, you have a style of answering that is difficult for me. You make a statement and then post scriptures that don't address what you've just said. Maybe there is some deep revelation contained in the words, but God's demand is that we embrace His Word. Now, let's just get this some things straight.
- Show me dead men being judged and show that the men I have shown to be ALIVE and then judged is a mistake
- Show me, from scripture, that taking captivity captive means transporting dead men, or spiritual bodies, or souls of dead men to heaven
- Show men from scripture that dead men are still joined body, soul and spirit
- Show men why James 2:26 is wrong when James says that a dead body has no spirit
- Show men David in heaven and why Acts 2:34 is wrong
- Show me the scriptures that show that Abel was among those raised after Christ on resurrection day
- She me ONE dead man in heaven (living don't count)
I expect scriptures that plainly state this, like Acts 2:34-35

 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

And how and why this plain statement is wrong and David has ascended to heaven because captivity is taken captive. Explain why a dead man is captive if he is in heaven? Show why you call "captivity" dead men. And show why men in heaven have to RISE?

If I told you that Jesus was Son of Martha, you would be perturbed and ask me for proof. I need proof from you for your "beliefs". Thanks, and go well.