Question for prewrathers and/or posttribbers

[Retrobyter]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

1.  Satan came FROM the earth

Shalom, DeighAnn.

The text does NOT say that haSatan took leave of the earth to present himself before YHWH. It's a non sequitur to come to this conclusion. Here's what was said:

Job 1:6-12 (KJV)

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan,

"Whence comest thou?"

Then Satan answered the LORD, and said,

"From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." (Hebrew: וַיֹּ֧אמֶר יְהוָ֛ה אֶל־הַשָּׂטָ֖ן מֵאַ֣יִן תָּבֹ֑א וַיַּ֨עַן הַשָּׂטָ֤ן אֶת־יְהוָה֙ וַיֹּאמַ֔ר מִשּׁ֣וּט בָּאָ֔רֶץ וּמֵֽהִתְהַלֵּ֖ךְ בָּֽהּ׃ = "And-said YHWH to-haSaataan, 'From-where do-you-come?' And-answered haSaataan D.O.-> YHWH and-said, 'From-roving-about in-the-earth and-from-walking-back-and-forth in-it.'")

8 And the LORD said unto Satan,

"Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said,

"Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face."

12 And the LORD said unto Satan,

"Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand."

So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

See, just because haSaataan had said that he was roving about in the earth and walking back and forth in it, that does NOT mean that he wasn't still upon the earth!

Don't forget that YHWH God is OMNIPRESENT! There is NOWHERE where God is not! HaSaataan (The Enemy) didn't have to go to some "Heaven" to find God!

 

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

2.  Satan was in the midst of them

Yes, but we don't know where "them" were! They don't have to be in some "Heaven" (as one might think angels are); they could still be on the earth (as one would expect human beings to be).

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

3.  They were standing before God

Yes, they were standing before an OMNIPRESENT and INFINITE God! Where is God not?

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I understand you don't like the fallen angels being on earth to impregnate the daughters of men hence all this.  We don't agree.  Why we can't agree to disagree is beyond me. 

The reason I pursue this difference is because there is an underlying fallacy in the "fallen angels impregnating the daughters of men" theory. 

First, can angels (supernatural spirits) actually take human shape to the point of being ABLE to impregnate women? And, why would God condone this? Think of the fact that God's power would have to be present to create DNA haploids in the human forms of angels! He certainly didn't authorize such evil; so, why would He even allow this without repercussions for their actions? Instead, God punishes MEN for it by bringing on the Flood!

Genesis 6:1-7 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 

3 And the LORD said,

"My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said,

"I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

Second, it misrepresents the Hebrew word "hannfiliym" which is the plural of "nfiyl" (with the definite article prefix), meaning a "cutter of wood" a "feller (of trees)," translated as "giants" in verse 4 of the KJV.

5303 nfiyl (nephil) נְפִיל (nef-eel'). Or nphil {nef-eel'}; from naafal (naphal); properly, a feller, i.e. A bully or tyrant:
-- giant. 

5307 naafal (naphal) נָפַל (naw-fal'). A primitive root; to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative):
-- be accepted, cast (down, self, (lots), out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell(-ing), fugitive, have (inheritance), inferior, be judged (by mistake for palal), lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present(-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, X surely, throw down.

This word doesn't indicate a race of people; it's an OCCUPATION! That's why the term can appear later in the Scriptures after the Flood! It's not a race that survived through the Flood; it's an occupation others could take up later in history!

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I think you have put forward your belief.  As I have.  Going back and forth isn't doing any thing positive that I can see. 

But, as I've said, it DOES have great ramifications in what you believe God would have to do to allow angels to impregnate women!

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

This is no more than the same discussion on souls and heaven.  We don't see them the same.  You think it is about dissecting I think it is about building.  You think it is found in  definitions I think it is found in the spirit of context.  I don't know why we need to go past you put forth your belief I put forth mine anymore.

The "souls" being "air-breathing creatures," and the "heaven" being the "skies" give one a DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE of what happens at death! This determines what we should anticipate! We are told to look forward to the Resurrection, which occurs when Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God returns to set up His Kingdom on the earth. THAT is our "blessed hope!" Our "blessed hope" is NOT "going to Heaven!" We are NOT told to look forward to "going to Heaven" when we die! This puts an entirely different onus on us in the pursuit of winning others to our Lord!

I grew up believing in the imminent Rapture of Christians. As such, our treatment of "winning souls" was URGENT! We HAD NO TIME TO WASTE in the "saving of souls!"

HOWEVER, I later learned that God doesn't want "spiritual abortions!" He didn't want those with whom He was dealing to come to the point of accepting Him, only to be turned away by the rude and disgraceful treatment by well-meaning Christians who turned sinners off to Jesus!

I learned that one should rather TAKE HIS OR HER TIME to develop a RELATIONSHIP with the sinner who needed Christ, and EARN THAT PERSON'S TRUST before talking with them about the Lord!

When we believe in "going to Heaven when we die," we communicate that to our loved ones and our converts! And, NO ONE knows when our time is up! Therefore, once again, there's an URGENCY created that turns us away from doing it right!

Growing up, we used the song "God's Final Call" as an invitational, and pastors would urge the sinners over and over again not to delay! (I can remember COUNTING the number of verses that a song would be played before the pastor would end the invitation!) The intelligent visitor who didn't know Christ would end up PURPOSELY resisting the invitation, often on the basis of the pastor and altar workers being too pushy!

My own son almost fell prey to them! He was tired from work, but he came to the service during a revival anyway, and fell asleep on the sermon. He awoke to find an altar worker nudging him to go forward! He was SO turned off by this bungled approach, that he wouldn't go back to that church at all! And, I couldn't blame him!

So, yes, what you believe DOES matter!

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

We are so far apart it will take an act of God to fix it, in my opinion. I don't want to argue words with you.  We never build upon anything so thank you for you time, I'll let your next posts go so you can have the last word.  Thank you for your time. 

As you wish, but I hope you can see my point here.

[DeighAnn]

1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

No I think it was cut when 

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Shalom, DeighAnn.

We've been through all this before, but apparently you still aren't getting it. NOTHING happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 to make the earth "without form, and void." When the earth was first made, IT HADN'T YET BEEN GIVEN ITS FINAL FORM, and it was EMPTY OF LIFE (which is what "void" means). It was just at the beginning of Day 1, after all! The causation of the Grand Canyon (and other such canyons, as well) is RUN-OFF WATER! The MAGNITUDE of the canyon speaks of the MAGNITUDE of the water! This occurred in Noach's 600th year when the Flood was upon the earth!

Genesis 1:1 is actually the MAIN POINT that is then given detail in the text that follows. Think of it as a SUMMARY before the discussion. It's very simple to understand if one realizes that these terms, "heaven" (Hebrew: "hashaamayim") and "earth" (Hebrew: "haa'aarets") are being used BEFORE God gives these terms as names for things!

Look at VERSE 8:

Genesis 1:6-8 (KJV)

6 And God said,

"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament "Heaven" (Hebrew: "shaamaayim" the SAME WORD used in Genesis 1:1 without the definite article prefix, "ha-"). And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Look at VERSE 10:

Genesis 1:9-13 (KJV)

9 And God said,

"Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear":

and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "Earth" (Hebrew: "'erets" the SAME WORD used in Genesis 1:1 without the definite article prefix, "haa-"); and the gathering together of the waters called he "Seas": and God saw that it was good. 

11 And God said,

"Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth":

and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

It is a FICTION - a STORY - to think that anything happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, especially something as monumental as you're suggesting happened! SHAME ON THEM FOR MISLEADING YOU!

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

And I think that happened after Satan's fall when 

Jeremiah 4:19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.

Jeremiah 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

Jeremiah 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?

Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Jeremiah 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Jeremiah 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jeremiah 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Jeremiah 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

No, Jeremiah 4, part of Jeremiah's prophecy, is about the conquest over Yhudah ("Judah") by the armies of Nebuchadnezzar. Remember: Jeremiah is called the "weeping prophet," weeping because of what he saw and experienced and wrote about in his book.

Here's how the book starts:

Jeremiah 1:1-3 (KJV)

1 The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin: 2 To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. 3 It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.

This tells us that the preaching of his prophecy occurred from the 13th year of the reign of Josiah to the 11th year of Zedekiah, from 628 B.C. to 586 B.C.

When Nebuchadnezzar's army attacked Judah, they did so from the north, because they came around the Fertile Crescent. So, later we read that God will protect Jeremiah through the whole ordeal:

Jeremiah 1:13-19 (KJV)

13 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,

"What seest thou?"

And I said,

"I see a seething pot; and the face thereof is toward the north."

14 Then the LORD said unto me,

"Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land. 15 For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entering of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all the walls thereof round about, and against all the cities of Judah. 16 And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands. 17 Thou therefore gird up thy loins, and arise, and speak unto them all that I command thee: be not dismayed at their faces, lest I confound thee before them. 18 For, behold, I have made thee this day a defenced city, and an iron pillar, and brasen walls against the whole land, against the kings of Judah, against the princes thereof, against the priests thereof, and against the people of the land. 19 And they shall fight against thee; but they shall not prevail against thee; for I am with thee," saith the LORD, "to deliver thee."

So, when you read Jeremiah 4:19-28 (as quoted above), particularly verse 23, these are the words of Jeremiah who witnessed this capture! Now, when he said, "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light," these are COMMON words used in Hebrew! The similarity of these words to those used in Genesis 1:2 is PURELY coincidental! They are NOT speaking of the same event!

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Which I believe is spoken of 

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

NOT HERE BECAUSE THIS IS SPEAKING OF THE FLOOD OF NOAHS TIME

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

2Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

2Peter 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

2Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

2Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2Peter 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

2Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

2Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

2Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

2Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Yes, this is about Noah in 2 Peter 2:5.

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

BUT HERE.  I think that making sure to put NOAHS flood first is brilliant so that NO ONE WOULD THINK THIS TO BE NOAHS FLOOD AGAIN.  You wouldn't believe how many try to say it is!!!   EVEN though it says PERISHED.  

People say that 2 Peter 3:6 is about Noach's Flood because it IS about Noach's Flood! To think otherwise is simply ridiculous.

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

2Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

2Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Peter gives us the details found in Genesis:

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,
that by the word of God  (God spoke them into existence)
the heavens (skies) were of old,  (God created the expanse called "skies" on Day 2)
and the earth (God created the dry land called "earth" on Day 3)
standing out of the water ...

Genesis 1:9-10 (KJV)

9 And God said,

"Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear":

and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "Earth"; and the gathering together of the waters called he "Seas": and God saw that it was good.

So, the water under the sky was gathered together and the dry land called "Earth" appeared growing above the "Seas."

... and in the water: ... (it was still within the sphere of water above the expanse called "skies.")

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world (that environment that we call the biosphere) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (THIS IS the Flood as described in Genesis 6-8!)

Genesis 6:17 (KJV)

17 "And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die."

Genesis 7:17-22 (KJV)

17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. 18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) upward did the waters prevail (go over); and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, DIED.

They all died! That's what "perished" in 2 Peter 3:6 means!

622 apollumi  ἀπόλλυμι (ap-ol'-loo-mee). From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:
-- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

QUIT trying to force your theories into God's Word!

[DeighAnn]

54 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

We've been through all this before, but apparently you still aren't getting it. NOTHING happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 to make the earth "without form, and void." When the earth was first made, IT HADN'T YET BEEN GIVEN ITS FINAL FORM, and it was EMPTY OF LIFE (which is what "void" means). It was just at the beginning of Day 1, after all! The causation of the Grand Canyon (and other such canyons, as well) is RUN-OFF WATER! The MAGNITUDE of the canyon speaks of the MAGNITUDE of the water! This occurred in Noach's 600th year when the Flood was upon the earth!

Let me try and make this clear.  

I get THIS, I JUST don't ACCEPT YOUR VERSION.  Just as I did the FIRST second third fourth plus times I HAVE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD WHAT IS WRITTEN,

I have NEVER ACCEPTED YOUR EXPLANATION OVER WHAT IS WRITTEN.  

again
It isn't that I DON'T GET THIS

BUT I DON'T GET WHY THE 'GO TO THE ORIGINAL' DOESN'T 'GO TO THE ORIGINAL


GOD DIDN'T SAY I AM CREATING THE EARTH.  

GOD SAID 'LET THERE BE LIGHT'

THE EARTH WAS ALREADY PRESENT IN THE DARKNESS.  The earth was already there in the darkness.  When God said LET THERE BE LIGHT an earth had been SITTING IN THE DARKNES.  THE EARTH WASN'T BEING CREATED, IT WAS ALREADY PRESENT.  

GODS FIRST WORDS WERE LET THERE BE LIGHT.  God didn't say let there be earth.  

THE HEAVENS AND EARTH WERE ALREADY CREATED.  

PLEASE LET THIS BE THE LAST TIME YOU BRING THIS UP TO ME.  

Repeating it over and over is not going to change what is written.  WE DON'T AGREE and is ISN'T BECAUSE I don't understand OR I don't get it or I am not following or I can't comprehend or I can't read or anything else SO QUIT SAYING IT.  please.



 

For thus	כֹ֣ה (choh)	3541: thus, here	a prim. adverb
says	אָֽמַר־ (a·mar-)	559: to utter, say	a prim. root
the LORD,	יְ֠הוָה (Yah·weh)	3068: the proper name of the God of Israel	from havah
who created	בֹּורֵ֨א (bo·v·re)	1254a: to shape, create	a prim. root
the heavens	הַשָּׁמַ֜יִם (ha·sha·ma·yim)	8064: heaven, sky	from an unused word
(He is the God	הָאֱלֹהִ֗ים (ha·'e·lo·him)	430: God, god	pl. of eloah
who formed	יֹצֵ֨ר (yo·tzer)	3335: to form, fashion	a prim. root
the earth	הָאָ֤רֶץ (ha·'a·retz)	776: earth, land	a prim. root
and made	וְעֹשָׂהּ֙ (ve·'o·sah)	6213a: do, make	a prim. root
it, He established	כֹֽונְנָ֔הּ (cho·vn·nah,)	3559: to be firm	a prim. root
it [and] did not create	בְרָאָ֖הּ (ve·ra·'ah)	1254a: to shape, create	a prim. root
it a waste place,	תֹ֥הוּ (to·hu)	8414: formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness	from an unused word
[but] formed	יְצָרָ֑הּ (ye·tza·rah;)	3335: to form, fashion	a prim. root
it to be inhabited),	לָשֶׁ֣בֶת (la·she·vet)	3427: to sit, remain, dwell	a prim. root
"I am the LORD,	יְהוָ֖ה (Yah·weh)	3068: the proper name of the God of Israel	from havah
and there is none	וְאֵ֥ין (ve·'ein)	369: nothing, nought	a prim. root
else.	עֹֽוד׃ (o·vd.)	5750: a going around, continuance, still, yet, again, beside

 

1961. hayah ►

Strong's Concordance hayah: to fall out, come to pass, become, be Original Word: הָיָה Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: hayah Phonetic Spelling: (haw-yaw) Definition: to fall out, come to pass, become, be

 

776 [e]	וְהָאָ֗רֶץ wə-hā-’ā-reṣ,	And the earth	Conj-w, Art | N-fs
1961 [e]	הָיְתָ֥ה hā-yə-ṯāh	was	V-Qal-Perf-3fs
8414 [e]	תֹ֙הוּ֙ ṯō-hū	formless	N-ms
922 [e]	וָבֹ֔הוּ wā-ḇō-hū,	and void	Conj-w | N-ms
2822 [e]	וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ wə-ḥō-šeḵ	and darkness	Conj-w | N-ms
5921 [e]	עַל־ ‘al-	[was] over	Prep
6440 [e]	פְּנֵ֣י pə-nê	the face	N-cpc
8415 [e]	תְה֑וֹם ṯə-hō-wm;	of the deep	N-cs
7307 [e]	וְר֣וּחַ wə-rū-aḥ	And the Spirit	Conj-w | N-csc
430 [e]	אֱלֹהִ֔ים ’ĕ-lō-hîm,	of God	N-mp
7363 [e]	מְרַחֶ֖פֶת mə-ra-ḥe-p̄eṯ	was hovering	V-Piel-Prtcpl-fs
5921 [e]	עַל־ ‘al-	over	Prep
6440 [e]	פְּנֵ֥י pə-nê	the face	N-cpc
4325 [e]	הַמָּֽיִם׃ ham-mā-yim.	of the waters	Art | N-mp

Straight from BIBLEHUB   

He DIDN'T CREATE IT FORMLESS AND VOID AND IN CHAOS 

 IT BECAME FORMLESS AND VOID AND IN CHAOS.

All the trying to put this in relation to Noahs flood just doesn't work.  This has NOTHING to do with Noahs flood.  

This has to do with BEFORE God said 'Let there be light'


FOR THE 2ND WITNESS in Gods word 

We have PETER speaking about Noahs FLOOD here

 

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

WHAT DOES EVERY CHRISTIAN KNOW AND ACCEPT?  The world all the way back to LET THERE BE LIGHT.  All Christians know about the Garden of Eden, and about ADAM AND EVE, and about the EVIL that was so different from all other evil that has been upon the earth that God flooded it.


So GOD having had Peter scribe that information MOVES FORWARD WITH SOME OTHER INFORMATION 

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

IS THERE ANYONE SAYING THIS?  IF SO, WHY?  
 

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,

that by the word of God the heavens were of old,

and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished

DID THE world PERISH at the flood of Noahs time? 

NO.  Who is ignorant of Let there be light and Adam and Eve?  No one. 

SO WHAT ARE THEY BEING WILLINGLY IGNORANT OF?  
 

Let's see, New Earth creationists, they are willingly ignorant of the age of this earth along with the age before this one.  Doesn't matter how many different passages one puts forth, or even what our own eyes can see.  Not gonna believe it.  

Also, those who don't believe God when He says 'I knew you'.  No, they just make up their own story and insert God is omniscient etc. SEEMS to just be a bunch more  of 'What is written isn't what He means'. 

Think about it.  An age before this one IN HEAVEN, that ended with a King cast down to the earth with 1/3 of the people,

STANDS TO REASON GOD WOULD HAVE KNOWN EVERYONE. And those who STOOD by Him then, wouldn't they just be the best choice to be predestined? But no, lets not ever get to that meat.

let's pretend none of what is written means what is written. 

And while we are PRETENDING none of that is written LETS also pretend that isn't what is meant if it does come up...or all the rest of the excuses given so that no one has to 'confess' a doctrine taught for years and years is wrong.  
 

Jeremiah 4:19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.

Jeremiah 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

Jeremiah 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?

Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

LOOK UP 3 VERSES, 'destruction upon destruction' COMING right BEFORE THIS takes place.  WHO WROTE SUCH WORDS?

Jeremiah 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Jeremiah 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

No Noah, No bird, No light, so no branch, BECAUSE GOD GOT REALLY REALLY MAD.  But let's not teach this.  Let's make sure to do everything possible to NEVER LET IT COME TO THE LIGHT.  Do everything we can to make ANYONE who even looks in this direction, look like they can't understand anything or they just don't get it no matter how many times someone takes their time to try and explain it. 
Why is it NO ONE ever mentions it?  It's like it doesn't exist.  Why not say HEY, HERE is a logical explanation, this is when this happens or when it happened instead of trying to make it FIT where it MOST DEFINITELY does not,  like everyone will go 'OH ok must be the same thing.  

But fellowservants aren't angels and angels aren't fellow servants THAT IS JUST WHAT IS WRITTEN, not what is MEANT, and there aren't any 'ages' there are just levels and Heaven isn't heaven it is just air,  and a living soul isn't body and breath but any one part, and no man means some men,  and no bird means A bird, and became doesn't mean became,  and the process God created the earth from started with waste and chaos, and corruption is raised to be immortal,  and the never die are the saved dead, and both means not at the same time when it works but not when it doesn't, and unprofitable servants are 'raptured' creating faith because faith is no longer faith, and  rather than standing the church is divided, and once saved is always saved because the 'ifs' have no meaning, and souls are tormented forever because that is what have their part really means, and Gods will is that all come to repentance so some people are born from the Spirit before they are washed clean, and sons of God aren't angels who marry daughters of men, and strange flesh isn't really strange flesh, and in the first few years of Adam and Eve all the ethnos were created yet nothing since, and in the image of God only means we all look different, and no one knows why Christianity is in a downward spiral.  

 

 

Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jeremiah 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Jeremiah 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Jeremiah 4:29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.

And say it is 'FOR A FUTURE TIME' even when we KNOW

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Isaiah 45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else
 

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

 

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Let me try and make this clear.  

I get THIS, I JUST don't ACCEPT YOUR VERSION.  Just as I did the FIRST second third fourth plus times I HAVE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD WHAT IS WRITTEN,

I have NEVER ACCEPTED YOUR EXPLANATION OVER WHAT IS WRITTEN.  

again
It isn't that I DON'T GET THIS

BUT I DON'T GET WHY THE 'GO TO THE ORIGINAL' DOESN'T 'GO TO THE ORIGINAL

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Oh, but I DO go to the original Hebrew and Greek! See, the thing that is missing in your approach is the GRAMMAR of the Hebrew language. You've been TOLD what supports your theory, but  you can't back it up with a knowledge of the Hebrew.

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

GOD DIDN'T SAY I AM CREATING THE EARTH.  

GOD SAID 'LET THERE BE LIGHT'

THE EARTH WAS ALREADY PRESENT IN THE DARKNESS.  The earth was already there in the darkness.  When God said LET THERE BE LIGHT an earth had been SITTING IN THE DARKNESS.  THE EARTH WASN'T BEING CREATED, IT WAS ALREADY PRESENT.  

GODS FIRST WORDS WERE LET THERE BE LIGHT.  God didn't say let there be earth.  

THE HEAVENS AND EARTH WERE ALREADY CREATED.  

PLEASE LET THIS BE THE LAST TIME YOU BRING THIS UP TO ME.

I CAN'T LET IT GO! YOU'RE SUGGESTING WRONG THINGS WITH THIS TEACHING, AND IN VOICING IT HERE, YOU ARE "TEACHING" OTHERS, AS WELL!

The stuff of the planet was there, but the "earth" had NOT been made, yet! We've given the planet the name "Earth." As Jetfire said in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, according to Quotes.net,

Jetfire: [after being told the name of planet he is on] 'Earth? Terrible name for a planet. Might as well call it Dirt. "Planet Dirt".'

That is, after all, what "earth" means. But, the Hebrew word that was used in Genesis 1:1 and 1:10 was אֶ֔רֶץ "'erets," which means "LAND." It's the name that God gave to the "dry [ground]" (Hebrew: יַבָּשָׂה transliterated as "yabaasaah") separated from the "waters below the firmament" (Hebrew: הַמַּ֙יִם֙ אֲשֶׁר֙ מִתַּ֣חַת לָרָקִ֔יעַ = "hammayim 'asher mittachat laaraaqiya` ") by raising it up!

HERE'S where the word "'erets," translated "earth," comes from:

Genesis 1:9-10 (KJV)

9 And God said,

"Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear":

and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "Earth" (Hebrew: אֶ֔רֶץ = "'erets"); and the gathering together of the waters called he "Seas" (Hebrew: יַמִּ֑ים = "yammiym"): and God saw that it was good.

In changing the letters from Hebrew characters to English characters (transliterating), we usually substitute the alef (אֶ֔) with an apostrophe (' ), we substitute the reish (רֶ) with an "r," and we substitute the ending tsadday (ץ) with a "ts" (could also be "tz" in some transliteration schemes). These are all three CONSONANTS! How the vowels change depends on the sounds needed for the sentence structure. They are represented by the "segol," the triangle of dots below both letters, alef and reish, representing the "eh" sound in "bed." This gives us " ' - eh - r - eh - ts." The alef is the explosive sound we make at the beginning of words like "apple," "egg," and "umbrella."

It is COMMONPLACE in Hebrew literature to present the main points FIRST, and THEN to supply the details! When it was written,

Genesis 1:1 (Westminster Leningrad Codex of the Massoretic Text)

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

This is a STATEMENT and a SUMMATION of what is to follow! It is the WHOLE SIX (6) DAYS summed up in a few words! It is NOT to be seen as though separated from the rest of the text!

Transliterated, this becomes ...

1 Breeshiyt baaraa' 'Elohiym 'eet hashaamayim v'eet haa'aarets:

Translated word-for-word, this is ...

1 In-[the]-beginning created God D.O.-> the-skies and-D.O.-> the-earth:

Putting this in English word order, we get ...

1 In the beginning God created the skies and the earth.

The connective וְ (vav ), often translated as "and" at the beginning of verse 2, is merely there to CONNECT this verse to the rest of this narrative which began in verse 1. It is found at the beginning of EVERY VERSE until Genesis 2:4! This means that the ENTIRE topic of the Creation extends from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3! "Paragraphs" within this topic are ended with the "פ" ("pei") in verses 1:5, 1:8, 1:13, 1:19, 1:23, 1:31, and 2:3.

IF (and that's a BIG "IF") there had been another whole Creation before this 6-day Creation in Genesis 1:2-2:3, there would have been ... SOMETHING ... ANYTHING ... just as monumental in the text! It would AT LEAST have warranted another "pei"! However, the first "paragraph" is from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:5!

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Repeating it over and over is not going to change what is written.  WE DON'T AGREE and is ISN'T BECAUSE I don't understand OR I don't get it or I am not following or I can't comprehend or I can't read or anything else SO QUIT SAYING IT.  please.

I'm not changing what is written! I'm trying to help you READ what is written, so you're relying less on what other people say ABOUT what you are trying to read!

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

For thus	כֹ֣ה (choh)	3541: thus, here	a prim. adverb
says	אָֽמַר־ (a·mar-)	559: to utter, say	a prim. root
the LORD,	יְ֠הוָה (Yah·weh)	3068: the proper name of the God of Israel	from havah
who created	בֹּורֵ֨א (bo·v·re)	1254a: to shape, create	a prim. root
the heavens	הַשָּׁמַ֜יִם (ha·sha·ma·yim)	8064: heaven, sky	from an unused word
(He is the God	הָאֱלֹהִ֗ים (ha·'e·lo·him)	430: God, god	pl. of eloah
who formed	יֹצֵ֨ר (yo·tzer)	3335: to form, fashion	a prim. root
the earth	הָאָ֤רֶץ (ha·'a·retz)	776: earth, land	a prim. root
and made	וְעֹשָׂהּ֙ (ve·'o·sah)	6213a: do, make	a prim. root
it, He established	כֹֽונְנָ֔הּ (cho·vn·nah,)	3559: to be firm	a prim. root
it [and] did not create	בְרָאָ֖הּ (ve·ra·'ah)	1254a: to shape, create	a prim. root
it a waste place,	תֹ֥הוּ (to·hu)	8414: formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness	from an unused word
[but] formed	יְצָרָ֑הּ (ye·tza·rah;)	3335: to form, fashion	a prim. root
it to be inhabited),	לָשֶׁ֣בֶת (la·she·vet)	3427: to sit, remain, dwell	a prim. root
"I am the LORD,	יְהוָ֖ה (Yah·weh)	3068: the proper name of the God of Israel	from havah
and there is none	וְאֵ֥ין (ve·'ein)	369: nothing, nought	a prim. root
else.	עֹֽוד׃ (o·vd.)	5750: a going around, continuance, still, yet, again, beside

It would be a GREAT idea to include the reference of what you are quoting! This is Isaiah 45:18, and there's a BETTER way to use BibleHub, as you did below for Genesis 1:2. (Also, you're missing the "not," Hebrew "lo' ," 3808). Instead of looking at all the ways a word COULD be translated (the UNION of the definitions), look for the way the word SHOULD be translated (the MORPHOLOGY of the word):

◄ Isaiah 45:18 ►

Text Analysis Go to Parallel Hebrew Strong's Hebrew English Morphology 3588 [e] כִּ֣י kî For Conj 3541 [e] כֹ֣ה ḵōh thus Adv 559 [e] אָֽמַר־ ’ā-mar- says V-Qal-Perf-3ms 3068 [e] יְ֠הוָה Yah-weh Yahweh N-proper-ms 1254 [e] בּוֹרֵ֨א bō-w-rê who created V-Qal-Prtcpl-ms 8064 [e] הַשָּׁמַ֜יִם haš-šā-ma-yim the heavens Art | N-mp 1931 [e] ה֣וּא hū He Pro-3ms 430 [e] הָאֱלֹהִ֗ים hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm, is God Art | N-mp 3335 [e] יֹצֵ֨ר yō-ṣêr who formed V-Qal-Prtcpl-ms 776 [e] הָאָ֤רֶץ hā-’ā-reṣ the earth Art | N-fs 6213 [e] וְעֹשָׂהּ֙ wə-‘ō-śāh and made it Conj-w | V-Qal-Prtcpl-msc | 3fs 1931 [e] ה֣וּא hū He Pro-3ms 3559 [e] כֽוֹנְנָ֔הּ ḵō-wn-nāh, has established it V-Piel-Perf-3ms | 3fs 3808 [e] לֹא־ lō- not Adv-NegPrt 8414 [e] תֹ֥הוּ ṯō-hū in vain N-ms 1254 [e] בְרָאָ֖הּ ḇə-rā-’āh who did create it V-Qal-Perf-3ms | 3fs 3427 [e] לָשֶׁ֣בֶת lā-še-ḇeṯ to be inhabited Prep-l | V-Qal-Inf 3335 [e] יְצָרָ֑הּ yə-ṣā-rāh; who formed it V-Qal-Perf-3ms | 3fs 589 [e] אֲנִ֥י ’ă-nî I [am] Pro-1cs 3068 [e] יְהוָ֖ה Yah-weh Yahweh N-proper-ms 369 [e] וְאֵ֥ין wə-’ên and [there is] no Conj-w | Adv 5750 [e] עֽוֹד׃ ‘ō-wḏ. other Adv

... as you did for Genesis 1:2 below.

You're seeing this as saying, "God did not create the earth empty." However, Genesis 1:2 seems to say that "the earth WAS initially empty." Therefore, the conclusion is that there was a previous time when God created the earth.

However, that's not what Isaiah 45:18 is saying. Isaiah 45:18 is saying rather that "God did not solidify the earth TO REMAIN empty." Then, he goes on to say that "He created it to be inhabited!" Therefore, no contradiction is found between these two verses.

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

1961. hayah ►

Strong's Concordance hayah: to fall out, come to pass, become, be Original Word: הָיָה Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: hayah Phonetic Spelling: (haw-yaw) Definition: to fall out, come to pass, become, be

 

776 [e]	וְהָאָ֗רֶץ wə-hā-’ā-reṣ,	And the earth	Conj-w, Art | N-fs
1961 [e]	הָיְתָ֥ה hā-yə-ṯāh	was	V-Qal-Perf-3fs
8414 [e]	תֹ֙הוּ֙ ṯō-hū	formless	N-ms
922 [e]	וָבֹ֔הוּ wā-ḇō-hū,	and void	Conj-w | N-ms
2822 [e]	וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ wə-ḥō-šeḵ	and darkness	Conj-w | N-ms
5921 [e]	עַל־ ‘al-	[was] over	Prep
6440 [e]	פְּנֵ֣י pə-nê	the face	N-cpc
8415 [e]	תְה֑וֹם ṯə-hō-wm;	of the deep	N-cs
7307 [e]	וְר֣וּחַ wə-rū-aḥ	And the Spirit	Conj-w | N-csc
430 [e]	אֱלֹהִ֔ים ’ĕ-lō-hîm,	of God	N-mp
7363 [e]	מְרַחֶ֖פֶת mə-ra-ḥe-p̄eṯ	was hovering	V-Piel-Prtcpl-fs
5921 [e]	עַל־ ‘al-	over	Prep
6440 [e]	פְּנֵ֥י pə-nê	the face	N-cpc
4325 [e]	הַמָּֽיִם׃ ham-mā-yim.	of the waters	Art | N-mp

Straight from BIBLEHUB   

He DIDN'T CREATE IT FORMLESS AND VOID AND IN CHAOS 

 IT BECAME FORMLESS AND VOID AND IN CHAOS.

No. The word "haaytaah" does NOT mean "became!" If you will notice in the morphology, this is a verb that uses the Qal stem and has the perfect tense. Thus, it is the simple, completed action. The same word is used in 2 Samuel 3:37, and there it is clear that it meant "it had been" not "became!" It is also a verb that carries the information of being third-person, singular in number, and feminine in gender. Such a pronoun would be "she" or "it" for a feminine noun, referring back to "the-earth," which is a feminine noun.

Notice that the "adjectives" are actually NOUNS! The Hebrew words "tohuw vaaVohuw" mean "a-formless-THING and an-empty-THING," and both words are MASCULINE in gender, as is the word "darkness" after them! They should read "formlessness" and "emptiness" as THINGS! These are not MY words; these are the words of SCRIPTURE and of the grammar of the Hebrew language!

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

All the trying to put this in relation to Noah's flood just doesn't work.  This has NOTHING to do with Noah's flood.  

This has to do with BEFORE God said 'Let there be light'

FOR THE 2ND WITNESS in Gods word 

We have PETER speaking about Noahs FLOOD here

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

WHAT DOES EVERY CHRISTIAN KNOW AND ACCEPT?  The world all the way back to LET THERE BE LIGHT.  All Christians know about the Garden of Eden, and about ADAM AND EVE, and about the EVIL that was so different from all other evil that has been upon the earth that God flooded it.


So GOD having had Peter scribe that information MOVES FORWARD WITH SOME OTHER INFORMATION 

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

IS THERE ANYONE SAYING THIS?  IF SO, WHY?  

YES, there are people saying it. The process is called "uniformitarianism," the idea that "all things continue as they were from the beginning ... ." Evolution uses uniformitarianism to suggest that processes continually happen at the same rate, and by using these rates, they calculate how many thousands and millions of years old that process has been happening.

For instance, based on the yearly growth of calcium on a stalactite and its current length, they calculate how many thousands of years old that stalactite is! The problem with this assumption is this is not a "closed system!" We don't know how much calcium were in the rocks above the stalactite, when it started to grow; we don't know if the water flowing through this rock formation has been consistently the same rate; and we don't know whether conditions were right at some moment of time in the past when calcium may have been injected into the system by the collapse of another near-by stalactite!

What Christians USED to believe and should still be believing, in my opinion, is "catastrophism," that things have NOT continued as they were; that there was a CATASTROPHE - the FLOOD - that MASSIVELY changed the world from the "world that then was" to the "world which now is!"

You asked "IS THERE ANYONE SAYING" "Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." Unfortunately, YES! Christians USED to be watching for His imminent Return, but after a couple of millennia, they're now saying, "We go to Heaven when we die," instead! Now, they say, if and when He comes, it will be "to judge the wicked, destroy the earth, and take the rest of us back with Him to Heaven!" Some say that He WON'T come back to this earth! That He already came back "in Spirit!" So, yeah, they've lost the faith - that is, they lost their trust in the promise of His return.

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,

that by the word of God the heavens were of old,

and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished

DID THE world PERISH at the flood of Noahs time? 

NO.  Who is ignorant of Let there be light and Adam and Eve?  No one. 

Yes, the world (Greek: kosmos = "ordered system") DID perish (Greek: apooleto = "was destroyed fully") in the Flood of Noach's time. BOTH passages speak of the Flood. You're "phishing" for things that just AREN'T THERE in the Scriptures!

YES! Christianity is not that prominent anymore. Most are unbelievers now who DO NOT KNOW that God said "Let there be light!" Even if they've heard that He said it, they don't believe it! To them, it's just a fairy tale! After all, it's not what the holy SCIENCE says happened!

"Adam and Eve?" For some, it's now "Adam and Steve!" or "Madam and Eve!" For the evolutionist, it's "Ardipithecus ... the earliest known genus of the human lineage and the likely ancestor of Australopithecus," and "Homo erectus is a species of firsts. It was the first of our relatives to have human-like body proportions, with shorter arms and longer legs relative to its torso. It was also the first known hominin to migrate out of Africa, and possibly the first to cook food." They don't believe the "fairy tale" of Adam and Eve. Most believe it to be a "spiritual allegory" and deny it actually happened as written.

In accepting the fiction of uniformitarianism's long ages and Evolution's need for those long ages to explain the development of species, they have "WILLINGLY become ignorant of the truth!"

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

SO WHAT ARE THEY BEING WILLINGLY IGNORANT OF?  
 

Let's see, New Earth creationists, they are willingly ignorant of the age of this earth along with the age before this one.  Doesn't matter how many different passages one puts forth, or even what our own eyes can see.  Not gonna believe it.  

Well, let's see. YHWH God HIMSELF SAID,

Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)

8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 SIX DAYS (Hebrew: שֵׁ֤֣שֶׁת יָמִ֣ים֙ "SHEESHET YAAMIYM") shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in SIX DAYS (Hebrew: שֵֽׁשֶׁת־יָמִים֩ "SHEESHET YAAMIYM") the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

The highlighted words above are the SAME EXACT WORDS, both in Hebrew and in English! See, you're trying to spin what has been known as the "gap theory" as a way to accomodate the long ages of Evolution, while Revelation Man uses what has been known as the "day-age theory," believing that "yowm" can mean more than an 24-hour cycle of light, to do the same thing. I will WHOLE-HEARTEDLY REJECT BOTH of these theories and opt rather to believe God Himself. The "long ages" are the FICTION that Evolution tries to spin! If you buy into this nonsense, here's what happens:

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Also, those who don't believe God when He says 'I knew you'.  No, they just make up their own story and insert God is omniscient etc. SEEMS to just be a bunch more  of 'What is written isn't what He means'. 

Think about it.  An age before this one IN HEAVEN, that ended with a King cast down to the earth with 1/3 of the people,

STANDS TO REASON GOD WOULD HAVE KNOWN EVERYONE. And those who STOOD by Him then, wouldn't they just be the best choice to be predestined? But no, lets not ever get to that meat.

let's pretend none of what is written means what is written. 

And while we are PRETENDING none of that is written LETS also pretend that isn't what is meant if it does come up...or all the rest of the excuses given so that no one has to 'confess' a doctrine taught for years and years is wrong.  
 

Jeremiah 4:19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.

Jeremiah 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

Jeremiah 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?

Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

LOOK UP 3 VERSES, 'destruction upon destruction' COMING right BEFORE THIS takes place.  WHO WROTE SUCH WORDS?

Jeremiah 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Jeremiah 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

No Noah, No bird, No light, so no branch, BECAUSE GOD GOT REALLY REALLY MAD.  But let's not teach this.  Let's make sure to do everything possible to NEVER LET IT COME TO THE LIGHT.  Do everything we can to make ANYONE who even looks in this direction, look like they can't understand anything or they just don't get it no matter how many times someone takes their time to try and explain it. 
Why is it NO ONE ever mentions it?  It's like it doesn't exist.  Why not say HEY, HERE is a logical explanation, this is when this happens or when it happened instead of trying to make it FIT where it MOST DEFINITELY does not,  like everyone will go 'OH ok must be the same thing.  

But fellowservants aren't angels and angels aren't fellow servants THAT IS JUST WHAT IS WRITTEN, not what is MEANT, and there aren't any 'ages' there are just levels and Heaven isn't heaven it is just air,  and a living soul isn't body and breath but any one part, and no man means some men,  and no bird means A bird, and became doesn't mean became,  and the process God created the earth from started with waste and chaos, and corruption is raised to be immortal,  and the never die are the saved dead, and both means not at the same time when it works but not when it doesn't, and unprofitable servants are 'raptured' creating faith because faith is no longer faith, and  rather than standing the church is divided, and once saved is always saved because the 'ifs' have no meaning, and souls are tormented forever because that is what have their part really means, and Gods will is that all come to repentance so some people are born from the Spirit before they are washed clean, and sons of God aren't angels who marry daughters of men, and strange flesh isn't really strange flesh, and in the first few years of Adam and Eve all the ethnos were created yet nothing since, and in the image of God only means we all look different, and no one knows why Christianity is in a downward spiral.  

 

 

Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jeremiah 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Jeremiah 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Jeremiah 4:29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.

And say it is 'FOR A FUTURE TIME' even when we KNOW

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Isaiah 45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else
 

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

 

The rest of this is just ranting and repetition. Relax. Take a deep breath, and quit trying to fit your opinions into God's Word (eisegesis); instead, rest in God's Word and let HIM speak His peace to you (exegesis). I still love you, sister, or I wouldn't spend so much time on this.

 

[DeighAnn]

21 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Oh, but I DO go to the original Hebrew and Greek! See, the thing that is missing in your approach is the GRAMMAR of the Hebrew language. You've been TOLD what supports your theory, but  you can't back it up with a knowledge of the Hebrew.

AGAIN, those who KNEW IT BEST COULDN'T SEE THE LORD AND SAVIOUR STANDING IN FRONT OF THEM.

So we were given a BETTER WAY than the GRAMMAR and the WISDOM OF MAN.  

You will not be causing me to fall  backwards.  I don't use the DEFINITIONS of words to bring forth the truth, I depend on the SPIRIT I RECEIVED TO LEAD AND GUIDE ME and when I need CLARITY along that path I will go to the word definition.  

SO AGAIN, your way HAS FAILED IN THE MOST EPIC OF WAYS PROVING  IT IS NOT THE WAY TO 



I CHOOSE to follow the NEW COVENANT and I CHOOSE to follow the leading and guiding of the HOLY SPIRIT however FOOLISH you might think that is.  


It is ONLY NATURAL  that we would not agree.  

NOW, if I were BLINDED and  OF JUDAH and charged with KEEPING THE LAW, you might have some sort of a point, somehow, maybe, IDK,  BUT I am not.  

But please, go on persecuting me for that if you feel you MUST because I am not ashamed of my beliefs and I will not have them changed by a man for the ways of this world.

So, in order to END this conversation, I will not read and respond to anything else so you can have the last word.  

Do me a favor,  and drop it.  We have discussed it again and again.  The only thing we would be doing from here is striving about words with no profit.  Let's not do that.  

Thank you for ending the beating of this dead horse with me.  

[Retrobyter]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:56 PM, iamlamad said:

Since neither group believes that John 14 will take place at the rapture event, when will it take place? 

I am not looking for an argument, just input. Please include a reason for your belief.

Shalom, iamlamad.

Well, getting back to the point, John 14 will take place when our Lord Yeeshuwa` returns. He will send out His messengers and gather His chosen ones from all over the globe to be with Him in Israel, first. From that point on, we will never be separated from Him again!

HOWEVER, His need will be GREAT, and His face will be grim with determination as He comes to aid His people, the children of Israel, with whom He grew up, and take back His Land from the Goyim, the Gentiles! The zeal of YHWH will drive Him to succeed, and He will do everything His Father has given Him to do, to make sure it is accomplished!

The gathering of His people is to collect His army! Many won't be ready for the fight, but they can help with the rescue, providing aid to get His people to safety and to help with any injuries they may have sustained. The Resurrected Righteous will have the abilities to heal and even raise the dead, just as His disciples had before He was crucified!

IMO, that's when it will happen.

[luigi]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:56 PM, iamlamad said:

Since neither group believes that John 14 will take place at the rapture event, when will it take place? 

I am not looking for an argument, just input. Please include a reason for your belief.

In the bible there are three areas in which being caught up appear. The first is in 2 Corinthians 12:2 & 4 where an individual who had been caught up to heaven, relates his experience to Paul on earth. The second is in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 where those who are still alive after certain end time events, are caught up to the Lord. And the third is in Revelation 12:5 where a woman who had been travailing with child, brings forth a man child who is caught up to heaven, and whom we see the dragon making war with on the earth in Revelation 12:17.

With those in 2 Corinthians and Revelation 12 still physically on the earth after being caught up to God in heaven; the remnant who are still alive and caught up in 1 Thessalonians I recognize also being a spiritual ascension to Christ and heaven.

The remaining survivors who are caught up spiritually to the Lord while still physically on the earth explains how the Lord will through His saints rule the earth with His rod of Iron.

Micah 5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

[iamlamad]

23 hours ago, luigi said:

In the bible there are three areas in which being caught up appear. The first is in 2 Corinthians 12:2 & 4 where an individual who had been caught up to heaven, relates his experience to Paul on earth. The second is in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 where those who are still alive after certain end time events, are caught up to the Lord. And the third is in Revelation 12:5 where a woman who had been travailing with child, brings forth a man child who is caught up to heaven, and whom we see the dragon making war with on the earth in Revelation 12:17.

With those in 2 Corinthians and Revelation 12 still physically on the earth after being caught up to God in heaven; the remnant who are still alive and caught up in 1 Thessalonians I recognize also being a spiritual ascension to Christ and heaven.

The remaining survivors who are caught up spiritually to the Lord while still physically on the earth explains how the Lord will through His saints rule the earth with His rod of Iron.

Micah 5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

In Revelation 12, we have the entire life of Christ on earth in one verse.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Did Jesus go back to heaven? Many SAW Him leave. Two angels then said He would return in the same way. He has been in heaven ever since. This was a physical ascension.

I believe John 14 will be the same. The church will be taken to heaven. From other verses it would seem to fit with 1 Thes. 4: we are caught up and changed, then escorted to heaven where Jesus will show us the homes he has build for us -AND to wait out the time of God's wrath on earth.

I started this thread because I have several pre-wrath books, and none of them mention this John 14 verse.

[iamlamad]

On 10/2/2022 at 1:11 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Oh, but I DO go to the original Hebrew and Greek! See, the thing that is missing in your approach is the GRAMMAR of the Hebrew language. You've been TOLD what supports your theory, but  you can't back it up with a knowledge of the Hebrew.

I CAN'T LET IT GO! YOU'RE SUGGESTING WRONG THINGS WITH THIS TEACHING, AND IN VOICING IT HERE, YOU ARE "TEACHING" OTHERS, AS WELL!

The stuff of the planet was there, but the "earth" had NOT been made, yet! We've given the planet the name "Earth." As Jetfire said in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, according to Quotes.net,

Jetfire: [after being told the name of planet he is on] 'Earth? Terrible name for a planet. Might as well call it Dirt. "Planet Dirt".'

That is, after all, what "earth" means. But, the Hebrew word that was used in Genesis 1:1 and 1:10 was אֶ֔רֶץ "'erets," which means "LAND." It's the name that God gave to the "dry [ground]" (Hebrew: יַבָּשָׂה transliterated as "yabaasaah") separated from the "waters below the firmament" (Hebrew: הַמַּ֙יִם֙ אֲשֶׁר֙ מִתַּ֣חַת לָרָקִ֔יעַ = "hammayim 'asher mittachat laaraaqiya` ") by raising it up!

HERE'S where the word "'erets," translated "earth," comes from:

Genesis 1:9-10 (KJV)

9 And God said,

"Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear":

and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "Earth" (Hebrew: אֶ֔רֶץ = "'erets"); and the gathering together of the waters called he "Seas" (Hebrew: יַמִּ֑ים = "yammiym"): and God saw that it was good.

In changing the letters from Hebrew characters to English characters (transliterating), we usually substitute the alef (אֶ֔) with an apostrophe (' ), we substitute the reish (רֶ) with an "r," and we substitute the ending tsadday (ץ) with a "ts" (could also be "tz" in some transliteration schemes). These are all three CONSONANTS! How the vowels change depends on the sounds needed for the sentence structure. They are represented by the "segol," the triangle of dots below both letters, alef and reish, representing the "eh" sound in "bed." This gives us " ' - eh - r - eh - ts." The alef is the explosive sound we make at the beginning of words like "apple," "egg," and "umbrella."

It is COMMONPLACE in Hebrew literature to present the main points FIRST, and THEN to supply the details! When it was written,

Genesis 1:1 (Westminster Leningrad Codex of the Massoretic Text)

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

This is a STATEMENT and a SUMMATION of what is to follow! It is the WHOLE SIX (6) DAYS summed up in a few words! It is NOT to be seen as though separated from the rest of the text!

Transliterated, this becomes ...

1 Breeshiyt baaraa' 'Elohiym 'eet hashaamayim v'eet haa'aarets:

Translated word-for-word, this is ...

1 In-[the]-beginning created God D.O.-> the-skies and-D.O.-> the-earth:

Putting this in English word order, we get ...

1 In the beginning God created the skies and the earth.

The connective וְ (vav ), often translated as "and" at the beginning of verse 2, is merely there to CONNECT this verse to the rest of this narrative which began in verse 1. It is found at the beginning of EVERY VERSE until Genesis 2:4! This means that the ENTIRE topic of the Creation extends from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3! "Paragraphs" within this topic are ended with the "פ" ("pei") in verses 1:5, 1:8, 1:13, 1:19, 1:23, 1:31, and 2:3.

IF (and that's a BIG "IF") there had been another whole Creation before this 6-day Creation in Genesis 1:2-2:3, there would have been ... SOMETHING ... ANYTHING ... just as monumental in the text! It would AT LEAST have warranted another "pei"! However, the first "paragraph" is from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:5!

I'm not changing what is written! I'm trying to help you READ what is written, so you're relying less on what other people say ABOUT what you are trying to read!

It would be a GREAT idea to include the reference of what you are quoting! This is Isaiah 45:18, and there's a BETTER way to use BibleHub, as you did below for Genesis 1:2. (Also, you're missing the "not," Hebrew "lo' ," 3808). Instead of looking at all the ways a word COULD be translated (the UNION of the definitions), look for the way the word SHOULD be translated (the MORPHOLOGY of the word):

◄ Isaiah 45:18 ►

Text Analysis Go to Parallel Hebrew Strong's Hebrew English Morphology 3588 [e] כִּ֣י kî For Conj 3541 [e] כֹ֣ה ḵōh thus Adv 559 [e] אָֽמַר־ ’ā-mar- says V-Qal-Perf-3ms 3068 [e] יְ֠הוָה Yah-weh Yahweh N-proper-ms 1254 [e] בּוֹרֵ֨א bō-w-rê who created V-Qal-Prtcpl-ms 8064 [e] הַשָּׁמַ֜יִם haš-šā-ma-yim the heavens Art | N-mp 1931 [e] ה֣וּא hū He Pro-3ms 430 [e] הָאֱלֹהִ֗ים hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm, is God Art | N-mp 3335 [e] יֹצֵ֨ר yō-ṣêr who formed V-Qal-Prtcpl-ms 776 [e] הָאָ֤רֶץ hā-’ā-reṣ the earth Art | N-fs 6213 [e] וְעֹשָׂהּ֙ wə-‘ō-śāh and made it Conj-w | V-Qal-Prtcpl-msc | 3fs 1931 [e] ה֣וּא hū He Pro-3ms 3559 [e] כֽוֹנְנָ֔הּ ḵō-wn-nāh, has established it V-Piel-Perf-3ms | 3fs 3808 [e] לֹא־ lō- not Adv-NegPrt 8414 [e] תֹ֥הוּ ṯō-hū in vain N-ms 1254 [e] בְרָאָ֖הּ ḇə-rā-’āh who did create it V-Qal-Perf-3ms | 3fs 3427 [e] לָשֶׁ֣בֶת lā-še-ḇeṯ to be inhabited Prep-l | V-Qal-Inf 3335 [e] יְצָרָ֑הּ yə-ṣā-rāh; who formed it V-Qal-Perf-3ms | 3fs 589 [e] אֲנִ֥י ’ă-nî I [am] Pro-1cs 3068 [e] יְהוָ֖ה Yah-weh Yahweh N-proper-ms 369 [e] וְאֵ֥ין wə-’ên and [there is] no Conj-w | Adv 5750 [e] עֽוֹד׃ ‘ō-wḏ. other Adv

... as you did for Genesis 1:2 below.

You're seeing this as saying, "God did not create the earth empty." However, Genesis 1:2 seems to say that "the earth WAS initially empty." Therefore, the conclusion is that there was a previous time when God created the earth.

However, that's not what Isaiah 45:18 is saying. Isaiah 45:18 is saying rather that "God did not solidify the earth TO REMAIN empty." Then, he goes on to say that "He created it to be inhabited!" Therefore, no contradiction is found between these two verses.

No. The word "haaytaah" does NOT mean "became!" If you will notice in the morphology, this is a verb that uses the Qal stem and has the perfect tense. Thus, it is the simple, completed action. The same word is used in 2 Samuel 3:37, and there it is clear that it meant "it had been" not "became!" It is also a verb that carries the information of being third-person, singular in number, and feminine in gender. Such a pronoun would be "she" or "it" for a feminine noun, referring back to "the-earth," which is a feminine noun.

Notice that the "adjectives" are actually NOUNS! The Hebrew words "tohuw vaaVohuw" mean "a-formless-THING and an-empty-THING," and both words are MASCULINE in gender, as is the word "darkness" after them! They should read "formlessness" and "emptiness" as THINGS! These are not MY words; these are the words of SCRIPTURE and of the grammar of the Hebrew language!

YES, there are people saying it. The process is called "uniformitarianism," the idea that "all things continue as they were from the beginning ... ." Evolution uses uniformitarianism to suggest that processes continually happen at the same rate, and by using these rates, they calculate how many thousands and millions of years old that process has been happening.

For instance, based on the yearly growth of calcium on a stalactite and its current length, they calculate how many thousands of years old that stalactite is! The problem with this assumption is this is not a "closed system!" We don't know how much calcium were in the rocks above the stalactite, when it started to grow; we don't know if the water flowing through this rock formation has been consistently the same rate; and we don't know whether conditions were right at some moment of time in the past when calcium may have been injected into the system by the collapse of another near-by stalactite!

What Christians USED to believe and should still be believing, in my opinion, is "catastrophism," that things have NOT continued as they were; that there was a CATASTROPHE - the FLOOD - that MASSIVELY changed the world from the "world that then was" to the "world which now is!"

You asked "IS THERE ANYONE SAYING" "Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." Unfortunately, YES! Christians USED to be watching for His imminent Return, but after a couple of millennia, they're now saying, "We go to Heaven when we die," instead! Now, they say, if and when He comes, it will be "to judge the wicked, destroy the earth, and take the rest of us back with Him to Heaven!" Some say that He WON'T come back to this earth! That He already came back "in Spirit!" So, yeah, they've lost the faith - that is, they lost their trust in the promise of His return.

Yes, the world (Greek: kosmos = "ordered system") DID perish (Greek: apooleto = "was destroyed fully") in the Flood of Noach's time. BOTH passages speak of the Flood. You're "phishing" for things that just AREN'T THERE in the Scriptures!

YES! Christianity is not that prominent anymore. Most are unbelievers now who DO NOT KNOW that God said "Let there be light!" Even if they've heard that He said it, they don't believe it! To them, it's just a fairy tale! After all, it's not what the holy SCIENCE says happened!

"Adam and Eve?" For some, it's now "Adam and Steve!" or "Madam and Eve!" For the evolutionist, it's "Ardipithecus ... the earliest known genus of the human lineage and the likely ancestor of Australopithecus," and "Homo erectus is a species of firsts. It was the first of our relatives to have human-like body proportions, with shorter arms and longer legs relative to its torso. It was also the first known hominin to migrate out of Africa, and possibly the first to cook food." They don't believe the "fairy tale" of Adam and Eve. Most believe it to be a "spiritual allegory" and deny it actually happened as written.

In accepting the fiction of uniformitarianism's long ages and Evolution's need for those long ages to explain the development of species, they have "WILLINGLY become ignorant of the truth!"

Well, let's see. YHWH God HIMSELF SAID,

Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)

8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 SIX DAYS (Hebrew: שֵׁ֤֣שֶׁת יָמִ֣ים֙ "SHEESHET YAAMIYM") shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in SIX DAYS (Hebrew: שֵֽׁשֶׁת־יָמִים֩ "SHEESHET YAAMIYM") the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

The highlighted words above are the SAME EXACT WORDS, both in Hebrew and in English! See, you're trying to spin what has been known as the "gap theory" as a way to accomodate the long ages of Evolution, while Revelation Man uses what has been known as the "day-age theory," believing that "yowm" can mean more than an 24-hour cycle of light, to do the same thing. I will WHOLE-HEARTEDLY REJECT BOTH of these theories and opt rather to believe God Himself. The "long ages" are the FICTION that Evolution tries to spin! If you buy into this nonsense, here's what happens:

The rest of this is just ranting and repetition. Relax. Take a deep breath, and quit trying to fit your opinions into God's Word (eisegesis); instead, rest in God's Word and let HIM speak His peace to you (exegesis). I still love you, sister, or I wouldn't spend so much time on this.

 

You did a good job here, Roy!