My Faith Is Severely Shaken (Again)

[TJGospels]

For fun, I skimmed through the online video of service from the larger church I used to attend. 

It's very different watching the "pastors" close up as opposed to hundreds of feet away. You can pick up little details you couldn't otherwise. There's one "pastor" in particular whose sincerity I long doubted, way before I was wise to the corruption of the "lead pastor."

Up close, you can see this pastor smirking, rolling his eyes, looking back and laughing with the worship music guy as he delivers his lines. 

All of these churches seem to use specific hook lines or catch phrases, much like professional wrestlers. 

At least for this large church, it's all a show. I was conned all along and didn't even realize it for at least 5 years. 

I have been conned by two churches in a row (at least). If this happens again....

[other one]

17 hours ago, TJGospels said:

For fun, I skimmed through the online video of service from the larger church I used to attend. 

It's very different watching the "pastors" close up as opposed to hundreds of feet away. You can pick up little details you couldn't otherwise. There's one "pastor" in particular whose sincerity I long doubted, way before I was wise to the corruption of the "lead pastor."

Up close, you can see this pastor smirking, rolling his eyes, looking back and laughing with the worship music guy as he delivers his lines. 

All of these churches seem to use specific hook lines or catch phrases, much like professional wrestlers. 

At least for this large church, it's all a show. I was conned all along and didn't even realize it for at least 5 years. 

I have been conned by two churches in a row (at least). If this happens again....

if it happens again....   what???

[TJGospels]

Curiously, the offending women at the TCIQ are no longer staff listed. 

Perhaps they're on a mission. Maybe they're working at or attending a different church. Most likely, since they were subject to a public, specific and rather prolonged reprimand, their "services" are being de-emphasized. 

Sensible move on the church's part but merely a drop in the bucket....

This is no longer a faith issue, but an issue of boredom. 

[Marilyn C]

On 4/21/2022 at 12:47 PM, TJGospels said:

I've only attended two churches locally for any significant period of time. 

The first was a large church (mega?), one of the 3 largest in our area. I attended that church from 2013 until 2019. The second is my "current" church which I began attending about a year ago. 

I happily attended the large church with some modest to moderate level of involvement in volunteering and small group classes, developing a few friendships along the line. I had a falling out however, as I encouraged the church to address some rather non-orthodox teachings along with some obviously immoral behavior in one of the smaller groups. I was met with extreme hostility by the church "leadership" as they dropped their superficial cloak of friendliness and politeness and revealed their true face of preserving their power though sheer intimidation. Obviously, I left. 

Now, I am facing almost exactly the same situation at my "current" church! I am encountering extreme political correctness, in obvious opposition to biblical teachings along with clearly immoral behavior. Oddly, I have been contacted by a pastor within the church that I have had no prior dealings with. 

I have however, have gotten a very bad vibe from this individual and have steered clear of him whenever possible. Without going into too much detail, this "pastor" is almost a carbon copy of the pastor in the previous church. The facade of politeness dropped remarkably quickly once this person was faced with even an iota of pressure or criticism. 

It's astonishing that local churches, prominent local churches, cannot handle even minor criticism. Obviously, serious criticism leads to total combustible explosion on their part. It is super sad to see local church pastors lose their composure so quickly. 

I am starting to wonder why I am attending church at all at this point. 

Hi TJ,

As I have just said on your next thread you are talking about a PUBLIC MEETING RUN BY MAN. 

The Emperor has NO clothes. Do you know that story? Well that is what you are looking at.

The PUBLIC MEETING RUN BY MAN is NOT the Body of Christ! People who are saved and unsaved can go. The organisers are under the authority of the law which is changing all the time to include all religions and different sexual activity and genders. And on and on with more depravity.

The organisors of this PUBLIC MEETING have to make sure the health and safety regulations are in place for the building and the people. That is the only authority they have.

Any religious names they give people are just the `garment` to delude those who ever sit in the pews.

Jesus said - "Go make disciples," NOT Go make buildings and public meetings.

Jesus will ask `Who are your disciples?" What will we answer?

[TJGospels]

The women iq are both married to church staff, who are still listed as such. The wives, not so much. Clearly, the women are being singled out.

I'm curious as to what happened, but the church is so small, it would feel strange going back. 

They used to attract many younger adults, but have taken great measures to push their main demographic away. 

The church is basically a shell of it's former self. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by TJGospels

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 4/27/2022 at 12:56 AM, TJGospels said:

For fun, I skimmed through the online video of service from the larger church I used to attend. 

It's very different watching the "pastors" close up as opposed to hundreds of feet away. You can pick up little details you couldn't otherwise. There's one "pastor" in particular whose sincerity I long doubted, way before I was wise to the corruption of the "lead pastor."

Up close, you can see this pastor smirking, rolling his eyes, looking back and laughing with the worship music guy as he delivers his lines. 

All of these churches seem to use specific hook lines or catch phrases, much like professional wrestlers. 

At least for this large church, it's all a show. I was conned all along and didn't even realize it for at least 5 years. 

I have been conned by two churches in a row (at least). If this happens again....

I am not trying to be rude, but it sounds like your basing much of this on suspicions and not factual evidence.  Just as others have said, you are not going to find a perfect church nor will you find a church where you agree with everything the pastor says or teaches.  If there are major overly glaring doctrinal issues then maybe you should consider finding another church or maybe God wants you there for a reason. From personal experience, I have never found a church where I agree 100% on what they teach, but this should not stop me or you from fellowshipping with other believers even if we disagree with them on certain topics.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings TJ

I sincerely do NOT wish to offend friend but here are my thoughts after reading MANY of your threads on the Topic of Disappointing churches....

My first reaction is that if your " Faith" is shaken by people then what is it that you have faith in? You see,FAITH ,for a Born Again Christian is about the WHO & not about the WHAT!!!

Our Faith is Believing Jesus,His Finished work on the Cross which affords us the Grace of God,by no works of our own but because Jesus Did it ALL for us!!! That's just the beginning of our Faith,from there we go on building our Relationship with God in Christ Jesus... And FAITH comes by hearing the Word of God....

Now if you think that is contingent on hearing God's Word from the mouths of others then you are sadly mistaken- we " hear" only because Holy Spirit Reveals  and let me tell you that if you are hoping to hear a Revelation at church without Holy Spirit then it's not gonna happen

Have you ever considered why some folks can walk out of the exact same church as you did floating on a cloud,Praising the Lord as if they " heard" a different sermon than you just heard?

When I walk into a building with a bunch of people in it called church I really don't care about who's doing what,whos married to who or anything except Receiving what God Has for ME OR what HE has me BRING there.   I bring with me His Holy Spirit!!!!!! It is Holy Spirit that translates that Holy Word in my ears & that's how it works.....why,because Jesus Abides in ME!!!

My personal Relationship with God in Christ is why there is not a " church" on this earth than can shake my Faith- you see? So WHAT do you have faith in my friend?

You can sit in your living room,call a Brother or Sister on the phone & have CHURCH,with just 2 or more & God in the midst!

Going to a place of Praise & Worship is just a bonus,if you want it to be- if your looking for faults there are plenty but if your looking for Jesus then just fix your eyes on Him,all the flaws of everyone will disappear ......

So again,what is your Faith about? Who do you Believe? Who or " what" are you looking for? A perfect church,pastor,congregants,building,sermon- ain't gonna find one!

With love in Christ,Kwik

A Perfect Savior- that's easy!

       JESUS❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Edited September 21, 2022 by kwikphilly

[Ray12614]

On 4/21/2022 at 12:29 AM, TJGospels said:

I will say I have a found a great new church already, although it does require a bit of a drive: over an hour if there is any traffic at all. 

 

A church that is alive . . . is worth the drive . .  

[Ray12614]

On 4/21/2022 at 1:07 PM, TJGospels said:

 

Now, they are blatantly fishing for character flaws to try to undermine my criticisms since they are too lazy to change. 

I know the best thing to do is simply to walk away but I feel compelled as a matter of integrity to at least urge them to correct their mistakes, even though I know they won't, instead exploiting any potential meetings to try to berate and rebuke me. 

Your post is a little confusing to me as all I hear you saying is what 'others' are doing wrong, and nothing about the good points of various assemblies. So, I have to ask:

Other than criticism of peoples faults, do you offer anything of value to any churches that you have visited? How do you serve? How do you encourage other believers who are attending? What is your gifting to the Body of Christ? Have you ever considered serving in churches community outreaches?

This is normal Christianity, of course unless you are an 'taker' only, and not an contributor . . . 

Of course sin has to be dealt with, and sometimes church leadership is not aware of it. If they are, and will not deal with it, then yes, leave by all means.

IF the church does not meet your wishes and desires only, then, I suggest that your Christian experience should not be based on your wants and desires, but, based on an real and living relationship with the living Lord and King, Jesus Christ. NO church attendance can substitute for that relationship, and will leave you empty and frustrated. BUT once that is corrected, then there is a church somewhere that you can attend that you can be a part of and where you can serve at.

There is an old saying, but a true one . . . "Once you find the perfect church Don't join it, because if you do, it will no longer be perfect". It is a illustration that those who expect perfection from God's people will be very unhappy because we all have flaws and imperfections. IF you are honest with yourself, you too have flaws . . . we all do . . .  

So, my exhortation to you is: Fix your relationship with Jesus first, then He will direct your paths via the Bible and Holy Spirit and help you find an assembly where you can be a part of, and serve and encourage other believers.

Ray . . . 

[TJGospels]

Nice ideas in theory. In reality churches have been overtaken with communist ideas and the demographic shift makes most look like senior citizen's communities.

Kids have no choice but once they become a bit more independent, starting in high school, churches bleed out members heavily. 

Churches seem "OK" with the big declines in attendance as long as coffers are filled but they're just a generation away from the crisis stage. You could say the crisis period has already begun.