Faith

[Marathoner]

In all honesty, when the Lord chose me, my heart was like lead in my chest. I trembled and was filled with dread for until that moment I did not know God, believing this was impossible. It couldn't be! 

I knew He was God the moment He called to me.

[Sower]

This scripture says to me, that such a proposed man made believing is referred to here. A doing is a deed.

Is saving faith a 'work' or a 'deed'?

Titus 3:5 (NAS20S) He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we did in righteousness, but in accordance with His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Sower, please read carefully each word I posted in this OP--there aren't many.

You might think better of me.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Above not original post.

I always think 'better' of you Alive, especially the time you "endured" as a moderator, alone, and all that entailed.

The only reason I entered at all in this was my enthusiasm to get the right answer you ask for in the OP. Faith.

The one I replied to.     Is faith/believing something you do?

I said both. Y & N

Realized later we were set up.

Then    Is saving faith a 'work' or a 'deed'?

I recognized this, having heard it from others that also believe as you do.
I was disappointed, reluctant  to reply, till I saw then this,

"Do you feel more special than the the other folks because ‘you’ in and of your own choice, gained salvation…the choice and initial action was yours not God’s"

Never ever heard this before. Freaked me out. Who would think this?
Why would doing what the scriptures say and choosing to obey them would make some one say feel more special than the the other folks ? 

What other folks? Those who also obeyed God?
As I said in my post upstream, I concede to you. I do not want to cause disunity, nor lose any fellowship here. I know in my heart God doesn't care about my perfectly  understanding election, and I would rather use that what I do know to further the kingdom. Sow seed. I still believe whosoever will, can be saved.

Thank you for your generous response, Alive, my brother and fellow warrior in the army of God. Our enemy laid an ambush. But I think we survived intact!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, Sower said:

This scripture says to me, that such a proposed man made believing is referred to here. A doing is a deed.

Is saving faith a 'work' or a 'deed'?

Titus 3:5 (NAS20S) He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we did in righteousness, but in accordance with His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Sower, please read carefully each word I posted in this OP--there aren't many.

You might think better of me.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Above not original post.

I always think 'better' of you Alive, especially the time you "endured" as a moderator, alone, and all that entailed.

The only reason I entered at all in this was my enthusiasm to get the right answer you ask for in the OP. Faith.

The one I replied to.     Is faith/believing something you do?

I said both. Y & N

Realized later we were set up.

Then    Is saving faith a 'work' or a 'deed'?

I recognized this, having heard it from others that also believe as you do.
I was disappointed, reluctant  to reply, till I saw then this,

"Do you feel more special than the the other folks because ‘you’ in and of your own choice, gained salvation…the choice and initial action was yours not God’s"

Never ever heard this before. Freaked me out. Who would think this?
Why would doing what the scriptures say and choosing to obey them would make some one say feel more special than the the other folks ? 

What other folks? Those who also obeyed God?
As I said in my post upstream, I concede to you. I do not want to cause disunity, nor lose any fellowship here. I know in my heart God doesn't care about my perfectly  understanding election, and I would rather use that what I do know to further the kingdom. Sow seed. I still believe whosoever will, can be saved.

Thank you for your generous response, Alive, my brother and fellow warrior in the army of God. Our enemy laid an ambush. But I think we survived intact!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No ambush intended, but I do understand how that can be concluded.

My point was to cause one's to think and examine themselves, which is always a good thing.

I have known quite a number of professing christians who were more than a little puffed up because they chose and others did not--and the fruit produced in those particular individuals is often pronounced. As I suggested, not all, but some.

The vast majority of professing christians simply think as they do because they were taught that way and or trusted someone as a teacher or teachers. Most never move from there, because as church goers they are captive to the environment.

Some reading this are going to react with "well that isn't me". ;-) And they may be correct, as I fully trust is the case with you and jade--for instance.

Nevertheless, my point is a valid one and it does relate to the degree and depth of which we realize 'consciously' our personal need for Grace.

That comes with time, study and the work of God in us. If we are open to Him and His dealing in us, then He will touch those spots in us that need more 'Light'.

Dogmatism in doctrine, especially in the untried, always leads to the kind of 'rigidity' that prevents change. Even if we learn to be truly 'open' and willing to be wrong, change can take much time, as high towers are--well--high towers.

One of the most difficult barriers to come down is knowing where our trust lies. Is it in our doctrinal position or in Christ. That sounds weird, I know.

If tomorrow we discover that where we camp out is utterly wrong, how do we react?

We all me and you, dear brother need to reach a place where (on some issues), we can be neutral and pliable in His hands. Especially in this day, when the western christian culture is as it is.

We need to allow Christ to be the Head. When He is truly the Head, then there is ground on which He can work freely in hearts and minds.

As I have confessed many times--I am at best an unfaithful servant. A sinner, who has known His Grace.

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, Marathoner said:

This is the understanding I have arrived at as well, sister. 

The scriptures below in Ephesians, if read very carefully, depict the two groups of Elect believers.  Note especially verse 13 which shows the free will group in contrast to Paul, a chosen vessel, and perhaps those who were with him.

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

- Ephesians 1:4,11-13

(I personally also believe that those chosen did actually choose Jesus in that time before the foundation of the world.  In the end, it’s my studious opinion that all souls created by God choose [or do not choose] JESUS …..selah)

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Selah7

[Sower]

59 minutes ago, Alive said:

No ambush intended, but I do understand how that can be concluded.

My point was to cause one's to think and examine themselves, which is always a good thing.

 The ambush I was talking about was our enemy (the devil) NOT you. Reread it. If you took it as me accusing you as my enemy, then the real enemy the devil scored another hit. Brother.

We both then know puffed up Christians who are not perfect.

This post is not intended to promote my views.

  I have a project milling cedar for an old park bench my grand daughter  waited till today to start, so I'll be succinct.

I think for myself as the spirit leads. I do not agree with just about anybody, till persuaded by God. Because most do not agree with your beliefs does not mean we do not study, or actually have our own convictions as strong as you demonstrate here. I commend you on that, but feel this ongoing subject is a product of our real enemy in the spirit realm, creating strife, not each other. I feel your post above is preaching your convictions.

I do not need to be remind you that Christ is my head, not I but Christ!

Again, I care less that you do not agree with my understanding. As you ask that you give me the same, and not assume so much about me, and others.
 

If I never questioned my shepherd or my church, I would still be a catholic working tirelessly to die without a mortal sin and burn.

             I really do understand GRACE,   Alive...
                      I'm just a beggar.
 

[Marathoner]

Before this topic comes to an end, I wanted to express my gratitude for your response, @Sower. 

There was something I learned years ago after I left the fellowship in the countryside: we must treat one another tenderly with the utmost care. This is the love of the brethren, and the Lord guards this zealously in His Body. 

I learned how I treated my brother and sister poorly, for His Spirit revealed this to me, and I couldn't be consoled for the longest time. My heart was wracked with grief.

As the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians, it is better to suffer a wrong than take your brother to court.

As the Lord taught me, nothing is worth being "right" if you are otherwise horribly and terribly WRONG. If we don't have love, we have nothing at all.

Many brothers and sisters have wonderful gifts to add to the Body, for we come bearing a psalm... a word of prophecy... or discernment, giving as the Lord Himself gives to us. Each of us has our place in the Body of Christ.

But when one or another seeks to embark upon some kind of crusade, setting out to champion an agenda, they will find themselves alone. The Lord has no regard for their offering.

This can happen to any one of us. What is the fruit of such an offering? Death. Men have their ways, and they are nothing like God's ways. 

It is never worthwhile to berate the beloved of Jesus Christ. Not only will He oppose you, but He will also deal with you so that you might return to Life and love.

Nothing is worth losing a brother. The Lord dealt with me harshly for doing that very thing.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Marathoner

[Alive]

Ya definately some misunderstanding here of both words, intent and hearts.

In know way was I pointing at any individual, rather writing generally for anyone reading, which is almost always what I have in mind.

If there is something helpful great. If not disregard.

The Lord knows. I have tsken nothing personally and meant nothing personally. Its a topical conversation among members.

as is often the case, OPs become something not intended.

My convictions. Preaching. Yes of course on the first and on the second, Blame God.

lol

[ayin jade]

Its a good thread alive, and responses are good. 

[Alive]

Just now, ayin jade said:

Its a good thread alive, and responses are good. 

Thanks for that, jade.

Ha ha. The simple point was, is faith regsrding our common salvation, something we do? Is it a deed or a work?

in my experience, considering that can be helpful.

Love in Christ

[Omegaman 3.0]

19 hours ago, Alive said:

I think this OP has accomplished what I intended. I do not want it to devolve into one of many cal/arm debates, so I request it be locked. @Omegaman 3.0

OK, will do, right after I catch up reading it myself, lol!