Resurrection of the Just and the Unjust Happens At The Second Coming

[Sister]

There's a lot to unpack here.

[Sister]

 2 Thessalonians 2:1   Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

  2 Thessalonians 2:2   That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

  2 Thessalonians 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

  2 Thessalonians 2:4   Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

  2 Thessalonians 2:5   Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

The day of Christ is the resurrection.  That's the big day!  Before the dead will live again, this Son of perdition has to come first and do his wicked thing, then be destroyed.  This is when Zion will go through her labour pains before her children come. The great tribulation.  Only after this great tribulation is finished will her children be born, all at once.  That's the resurrection.  Being born again the second time, in the spirit by the will of God.  The first time we were born was by the will of man, when we came into this world through our earthly mother in the flesh.  The second time is through our spiritual mother Zion.  Born straight out of Holy Jerusalem - the kingdom of God.  Born spirit.  This is the day when death is conquered.  Not a day before.

Isaiah 66:8   Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

[Retrobyter]

On 6/8/2022 at 6:44 AM, DeighAnn said:

It has got to be getting harder and harder to say these things when it is so easily proven the EXACT opposite of what is written.  AGAIN, those 'definitions' aren't where truth is found.  It is the BUILDING upon the foundation laid.  Here is some foundation.  I don't know how one gets from this to that.  The sentences are super simple.  How does one ever get convinced it says something else I will never understand.  Not saying there aren't parts but here??

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest NOT that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

The opposite of what you believe, isn't it?  Do you realize the Creator put our DNA in ever cell?  A BARE GRAIN with our works would clearly and easily be that HEAVENLY BODY as God decides.   


 

1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Don't you wish you would give a verse of decay being risen up for eternal glory?  Yeah, but instead WE DO GET IS the verse that decay doesn't inherit immortality.  

Computers are making the truth harder to hide What is Written.  

I always go back to Jesus and how He was tempted and how He stayed out of danger IT IS WRITTEN is all we can count on 

Shalom, DeighAnn.

As usual, the context is read incorrectly. Let's take this a bite at a time:

1 Corinthians 15:35 (KJV)

35 But some man will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

This SEEMS like a legitimate question. Why does Paul immediately say, "Fool!" 

But, the word for "are ... raised up" is "egeirontai," which means "are awakened." This person is worried that the dead are raised as ZOMBIES! No creative power of God; he is assuming that these dead come back in whatever shape they're currently found!

(This is a great passage of Scripture to debunk the Zombie Apocalypse movie buffs seem worried about.)

Then, Paul responds with the seed analogy:

36 Thou fool (Greek: Afroon = "Mindless! Stupid!"), that which thou sowest is not quickened (brought back to life), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Let's look at a seed:

There is a small plant, an embryo, within the seed that is capable of growing into a new plant, once the seed has enough heat and moisture. However, the seed coat and the seed cotyledons that provide food to the new plant within, must first be used up. The cotyledons provide a food source for the growing plant, and the seed coat protects the young plant until it is big and healthy enough to burst out of the seed coat.

So, what is Paul talking about? He's talking about the seed coat and the cotyledons dying! DECAYING! But, guess what! The plant that emerges from the ground looks JUST LIKE THE PLANT from which it comes! It just looks much different than the seed that goes into the ground!

The KEY is verse 38: "But GOD giveth it a body as it hath pleased him." GOD CREATED the body that comes out of the ground!

Yes, if the flesh came out as decaying flesh, that would be gross. But it WON'T in the Resurrection! God creates it NEW! He creates it JUST LIKE THAT OF HIS SON! When reading what Paul wrote, keep in the back of your mind the way that our Savior's body was when HE was resurrected!

Luke 24:36-43 (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them,

"Peace be unto you."

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit (a ghost). 38 And he said unto them,

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,

"Have ye here any meat?"

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

I'm going to stop there and let you meditate on that for a while.

[Retrobyter]

On 6/8/2022 at 8:51 AM, DeighAnn said:

I don't know where I lost you.  So I can't quote what you said.  Before I have gotten through one post you have posted another so then the conversation gets lost.  Who knows maybe I do that also. 

 

That would be Retro. 

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Of COURSE, there's no "heaven!" The definition most people have for the word is not the same as the word that is being used in the Scriptures! It is SO common an error, that it seems to be PERPETUALLY taught on the Internet! And, everyone I've heard or read uses the same analogy as that of C. I. Scofield on page 1238 of his Scofield Reference Bible: "1st heaven, of clouds; 2nd, of stars; 3rd, God's abode." 

When are you people ever going to learn PETER'S statement, instead? In 2 Peter 3:3-13, he said, "1st heaven, before the Flood; 2nd heaven, the current sky before the Fire; 3rd heaven, after the Fire wherein dwells righteousness!" I think HE would know better than Scofield!

It's not talking about DISTANCE from the earth; it's talking about TIME! The ages of the earth!

[Serving]

1 John 3:2 
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It matters not, what kind of body we are given, but the body that we will be given .. will be like our Lord's Body .. 

And that body is this : 

John 4:24 
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

And that body is Spirit.

Note, this was stated for a reason : 

Romans 8:11 
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

That word "Quicken" means something.

Let us imagine we could speed up the vibrational rate at which our bodies (atomically speaking) naturally vibrate at .. according to some scientific assumptions, it is highly likely we would become ethereal .. that is .. Spirit.

Reverse that quickened state and spirit would revert back to .. flesh !!

This is all that is happening when our Lord, or any spiritual being, appears in the flesh .. he is slowing down his vibrational frequency.

Why else would the Lord need to "Quicken" our mortal bodies which are flesh bodies if .. if we were to remain flesh?

That would be a contradiction.

But, if that mortal body were to be changed into a body like the Lord's .. that contradiction is removed .. for :

John 4:24 
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Thus, if our bodies were to be like His body, then our bodies, obviously, will become spirit too.

It is not logical to assume that what was meant by "to be Like Him" would mean to actually look like Him, no, but to be "Like Him" in our physical makeup is obviously the intended meaning .. that's the only two options when analyzed and from that only one answer can be meant for the other answer would be nonsensical in comparison.

Therefore, what "body" we are given in that context matters not in relation to what appearance we are given, no, but rather pertaining to what that body is made out of .. and it is clearly made out of spirit in this context of John 4:24.

I see no reason for objection when an argument can clearly be made for our bodies being changed (quickened) into spirit via the scriptures given .. however, I can see the objection in the reverse, that is, that our bodies will remain flesh, be it some sort of glorified flesh, whatever that REALLY means or mere restored flesh .. seeing that this argument clashes/contradicts with the argument given and revealed in the scriptures that our Lord is indeed Spirit and that we would be "Quickened" to become "Like Him" .. one would have to make Him flesh to make the other argument valid .. and that obviously would be nonsensical and would obviously contradict John 4:24.

 

 

[transmogrified]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:34 PM, Sister said:

On 6/1/2022 at 10:02 AM, transmogrified said:

Please provide with similar scriptural documentation describing specifically a:

1) Resurrection after the 7th Trumpet...

2) A resurrection that is only for Old Testament saints...

3) A resurrection specifically stating the Old Testament saints will be resurrected in mortal bodies...

1) Already explained

2)   Ezekiel 37:11   Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

  Ezekiel 37:12   Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

  Ezekiel 37:13   And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

3) Ezekiel 37.

Hello Sister-

   Sorry I had so much work to do I couldn't get back with you sooner...but anyway, here are a few questions I need to go over with you on this post. 

    First off...the question was asked about where the scripture shows there will be another resurrection AFTER the 7th trumpet...the scriptures you gave do not show another resurrection AFTER the 7th trumpet...the first one says:

'...these bones are the whole house of Israel, behold, they say, our bones are dried, and our hope is lost; we are cut off for our parts...' 

    Note: There is nothing in the above scripture that states there will be another resurrection after the 7th trumpet.

The second scripture cited shows:

"...I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.."

   Note: There is nothing in the above scripture that states there will be another resurrection after the 7th trumpet.

The third scripture cited shows:

  "And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves...'

Note: There is nothing in the above scripture that states there will be another resurrection after the 7th trumpet.

Ez. 37 was then given as additional scriptural support that there would be another resurrection after the 7th trumpet, but there is nothing in Ez. 37 that shows there will be another resurrection after the 7th trumpet.

Please provide scripture showing there will be another resurrection after the 7th trumpet...

Blessings to you- Gary

 

[transmogrified]

19 hours ago, Serving said:

I see no reason for objection when an argument can clearly be made for our bodies being changed (quickened) into spirit via the scriptures given .. however, I can see the objection in the reverse, that is, that our bodies will remain flesh, be it some sort of glorified flesh, whatever that REALLY means or mere restored flesh .. seeing that this argument clashes/contradicts with the argument given and revealed in the scriptures that our Lord is indeed Spirit and that we would be "Quickened" to become "Like Him" .. one would have to make Him flesh to make the other argument valid .. and that obviously would be nonsensical and would obviously contradict John 4:24.

Hello Serving...Good to meet you-:)

    You are correct that God is a spirit, but this spirit was and is in the body of Jesus Christ. As it says 'God (the spirit) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself...'

Also 'In him (the body of Jesus Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.'

He is the God / Man in scripture...It was Almighty God that appeared unto Abraham in the plains of Mamre...yet this same Almighty God was called a man...as it states...

Gen. 18:2 "And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo three men stood by him..' Two of these men were  angels, and the other man was Jesus Christ.

When Jesus prayed in John 17 he said 'Glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world was..' This of course happened when he was resurrected. He received the same body he had before the world was and before he was conceived in Mary...As it states...'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'

The key verse is that 'And the word became flesh and dwelt among us...' So the Word of God that appeared to Abraham was Jesus in his glorified body that he had from before the world was.

This God / Man, and the two angels sat down with Abraham and ate the meal of butter, milk, bread and the calf that Abraham had prepared for them. 

This God / Man that stood before Abraham was the same Jesus that appeared to his disciples in Jerusalem after his resurrection. He said:

"Peace be unto you.."   They were afrighted and thought they had seen a spirit. What did Jesus say?

"Why are ye troubled? And why do thoughts arise in your hearts?" What thoughts were these? He specifically addresses what thoughts they had in their heart. He said:

"Behold my hands and my feet, that is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have..."

He was correcting the thought they had that they were seeing a spirit, that is why he said 'handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have'

Yes, you are right, in that God is a spirit...but it is also right that this Spirit is IN the flesh and bone body of Jesus after he was resurrected...This is the body he is talking about that we will be like when he appears...it is a glorified body of flesh and bone.

There is a distinction between 'flesh and bone,' and 'flesh and blood.' 

As it states in Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death..."

What this is saying is that he was NOT a partaker of flesh and blood before his conception in Mary, but rather his glorified body consisted of flesh and bone when he appeared to Abraham and later to his disciples after his resurrection.

When Jesus ascended up to heaven from the Mt. of Olives he was there in this glorified body of flesh and bone...it is this same Jesus who will be returning in this same body of flesh and bone. The invisible spirit of God does dwell in Jesus BODILY, as it states, and it specifically states he shall change our vile bodies, that it might be fashioned like unto his glorious body.

When Jesus appears, it says every eye will see him...he will be visible...a spirit is invisible, but he will return in the same body he left in. People saw him ascend up into heaven...The angels said 'Why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shal so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.'

The invisible God dwells in the visible body of Jesus...the fullness of the Godhead dwells IN HIM BODILY..he will return in a body..we will be changed and will be like the angels...the angels that appeared to Abraham ate with Abraham just like God Almighty ate with Abraham, and just like God Almighty ate a piece of broiled fish and a honeycomb when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection...

Blessings to you- Gary

 

[transmogrified]

On 6/6/2022 at 7:15 PM, Uriah said:

Dan 11 starts out outlining workings with the kings of Persia, Grecia and the king of the south, thought to be Egypt. I'd still like to know where in Dan 11 there is a transition to the end times, please.

Yes you are correct in that Dan. 11 starts out with the 4 Kings of Persia, then goes to Alexander the Great in 11:3 and then goes into the division of Greece into four divisions which were:

1)  Greece

2) Turkey

3) Syria

4) Egypt 

This is also spoken of in Dan. 8:8-11

8) Therefore the he goat waxed very great  and when he was strong , the great horn was broken; (Alexander the Great) and for it came up four notable ones (Greece, Turkey, Syria, and Egypt) toward the four winds of heaven.." 

This is important because the next verse says where the little horn, or the antichrist arises out of...

 9) And out of one of them, came forth a little horn which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land..And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them..

Verse 9 showed that out of one of these divisions came forth the little horn..in other words, out of either Greece, Turkey, Syria or Egypt the little horn arose. Other scriptures show the antichrist arises out of Syria so this is very important.

So verse 9 is the antichrist saying he cast down SOME of the host and of the stars to the ground...in other words, he was waging war against the saints and he did kill SOME of them, but not ALL of them. 

Then verse 11 follows along with the same narrative as 11:36 where it says:

"And he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, AND BY HIM the daily sacrifice was taken away, and place of his sanctuary was cast down..."

This shows the "HE" that took away the daily sacrifices is not Jesus causing the oblations and sacrifices to cease, but rather is the future antichrist.

The explanation of the vision by the angel is given to Daniel in 8:21:

21) And the rough goat is the king of Grecia; and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king...(Alexander the great) Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation...(Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt) but not in his power...and in the latter time of their kingdom (jump to the end time) when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up...and his power shall be mighty (the dragon gives him his power, seat and great authority) ...and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people...(makes war against the saints and prevails against them until the Ancient of days came) ...then it goes on to say he shall magnify himself in his heart...and shall stand up against the Prince of Princes...(Armageddon) but he shall be broken without hand...(he shall come to his end and none shall help him...the same man in 11:45.) 

Daniel 11:21 is where the transition takes place...the phrase that brings him into the picture is 'and in his estate shall rise a vile person..' This vile person continues on to when he comes to his end at the Second Coming in 11:45...

This same vile person that comes to his end in 11:45 is the same person who shatters the power of the holy people for the 3.5 years in Dan. 12: 7 in the phrase 'and when HE (the same man of 11:45) shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people all these things will be finished.

Follow the vile person from 11:21 all the way to 11:45....the identity never changes...it is always 'he' does this and 'he' does that and then someone comes up against 'him' and then 'he' does something else...the error is trying to make the events described from 11:21 and forward to fit in past history..it is not past history, it is all prophetic from 11:21 and forward. 

Sometimes people will  go part way with this and say Antiochus is the man until it gets to verse 36 and then transitions into the Antichrist, but there is no justification for this...verse 36 begins 'And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god...' 

This is indeed where Paul is quoting from in 2 Thess. 2 that he exalts himself above all that is called god or that is worshipped, but the King in verse 36 is the same king that was  corrupting by flatteries those that had violated the agreement in verse 32.

Blessings to you- Gary

 

[Uriah]

On 6/14/2022 at 6:28 PM, transmogrified said:

Yes you are correct in that Dan. 11 starts out with the 4 Kings of Persia, then goes to Alexander the Great in 11:3 and then goes into the division of Greece into four divisions which were:

1)  Greece

2) Turkey

3) Syria

4) Egypt 

This is also spoken of in Dan. 8:8-11

8) Therefore the he goat waxed very great  and when he was strong , the great horn was broken; (Alexander the Great) and for it came up four notable ones (Greece, Turkey, Syria, and Egypt) toward the four winds of heaven.." 

This is important because the next verse says where the little horn, or the antichrist arises out of...

 9) And out of one of them, came forth a little horn which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land..And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them..

Verse 9 showed that out of one of these divisions came forth the little horn..in other words, out of either Greece, Turkey, Syria or Egypt the little horn arose. Other scriptures show the antichrist arises out of Syria so this is very important.

So verse 9 is the antichrist saying he cast down SOME of the host and of the stars to the ground...in other words, he was waging war against the saints and he did kill SOME of them, but not ALL of them. 

Then verse 11 follows along with the same narrative as 11:36 where it says:

"And he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, AND BY HIM the daily sacrifice was taken away, and place of his sanctuary was cast down..."

This shows the "HE" that took away the daily sacrifices is not Jesus causing the oblations and sacrifices to cease, but rather is the future antichrist.

The explanation of the vision by the angel is given to Daniel in 8:21:

21) And the rough goat is the king of Grecia; and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king...(Alexander the great) Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation...(Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt) but not in his power...and in the latter time of their kingdom (jump to the end time) when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up...and his power shall be mighty (the dragon gives him his power, seat and great authority) ...and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people...(makes war against the saints and prevails against them until the Ancient of days came) ...then it goes on to say he shall magnify himself in his heart...and shall stand up against the Prince of Princes...(Armageddon) but he shall be broken without hand...(he shall come to his end and none shall help him...the same man in 11:45.) 

Daniel 11:21 is where the transition takes place...the phrase that brings him into the picture is 'and in his estate shall rise a vile person..' This vile person continues on to when he comes to his end at the Second Coming in 11:45...

This same vile person that comes to his end in 11:45 is the same person who shatters the power of the holy people for the 3.5 years in Dan. 12: 7 in the phrase 'and when HE (the same man of 11:45) shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people all these things will be finished.

Follow the vile person from 11:21 all the way to 11:45....the identity never changes...it is always 'he' does this and 'he' does that and then someone comes up against 'him' and then 'he' does something else...the error is trying to make the events described from 11:21 and forward to fit in past history..it is not past history, it is all prophetic from 11:21 and forward. 

Sometimes people will  go part way with this and say Antiochus is the man until it gets to verse 36 and then transitions into the Antichrist, but there is no justification for this...verse 36 begins 'And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god...' 

This is indeed where Paul is quoting from in 2 Thess. 2 that he exalts himself above all that is called god or that is worshipped, but the King in verse 36 is the same king that was  corrupting by flatteries those that had violated the agreement in verse 32.

Blessings to you- Gary

 

One of the best explanations on this matter can be fount here:

https://thedailyhatch.org/2020/07/21/daniel-11-old-testament-prophecy-fulfilled-already-in-history-as-told-by-john-macarthur-verses-1-35/

Very thorough and makes the case for just what I've been saying about Dan 12:1

Historians use all the verses in ch. 11 to show the accuracy of prophecy and its fulfillment of every verse in the chapter are used for apologetic exegeses.

[transmogrified]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

Very thorough and makes the case for just what I've been saying about Dan 12:1

Hello Uriah- 

I listened to John McCarther on Dan. 12:1 and also read what he said about Dan. 11:21 to 11:35.

John McCarther says 'at that time Michael stands up..' He does not say 'At that time that Michael stands up.'

He says Antiochus appears in Dan. 11:21 to 11:35, then in verse 36 thousands of years elapses and the King in 36 becomes the Antichrist.

The man in Dan. 11:21 never changes identity from the time he appears to the time he comes to his end in Dan. 11:45...

Just like the narrative from 11:21 says 'he does this and he does that...' this scenario continues to 11:45. The king who does according to his will in 36 is the same man who appeared in 11:21.

Here is his quote justifying the transition from Antiochus to Antichrist in 35-36:

Quote

 

Now as we approach verse 36, we leap across centuries to the final king, Antichrist, and we meet him in verses 36-45. We’ve seen the Persian era, the Greek era, and now we see the final form of the Roman era, the final chapter of the chastening of the people of Israel. And this amazing figure will be all the evil power of Ahasuerus, Alexander, Antiochus the Great, Antiochus Epiphanes combined and more. He is the counterfeit Christ who makes artwork treaty or a covenant or a pact with Israel. He promises to protect. He aligns Israel with the west. And then in the middle of the seven-year tribulation, he breaks that pact. He desecrates their temple. He desecrates their religion. He blasphemes their god and precipitates the holocaust of Armageddon, which is ended in the return of Jesus Christ.

Now beginning in verse 36, there’s a sharp break. It is introduced to us at the end of verse 35. “Even to the time of the end,” that’s the key phrase. This is gonna go on to the time of the end. Up to this point, the prophecy has dealt with history past. Now we come to a different scene, history future, the time of the end. Now some Bible commentators, and you who get into the depth of these things will be interested in this, but some Bible commentators want to apply this to some historical point. They want to apply the rest of the chapter to Antiochus Epiphanes or some other personality; primarily Antiochus Epiphanes is selected. But they don’t want to allow for prophesy in the future so they want to tie it all to some past event, but that just doesn’t work very well. Let me suggest several reasons. First of all, in verse 35, the time of the end is an eschatological term; it deals with last things. In verse 40, it begins, “And at the time of the end.” And both of those uses indicate a future last days’ point.

 

He states the phrase 'the time of the end' is an eschatological term, and that it deals with last things. The scripture he is pointing at is verse 35:

Quote

"And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the the time of the end; because it is yet for a time appointed.' 

Because they will be tried to the time of the end does not mean the King in verse 36 is now Antichrist thousands of years later. This is nonsense. The king in verse 36 is the same man who became king in verse 21 when he obtained the kingdom by flatteries. He is called a King when he sits down with the king of the south and tells lies at one table, as it says:

"And both these kings (the king of the north, and the king of the south) shall be to do mischief..."

Verse 35-36 is one of the most common places people will transition from Antiochus to Anti-Christ, but there is no textual justification. 

The dialogue that Antiochus begins in 21 and changes to Antichrist thousands of years later is misleading. If the abomination that makes desolate spoken of in Dan.11:31 actually occurred during the time of Antiochus, then Jesus statement to his disciples would mean nothing. He told them 'when you see the abomination that maketh desolate stand in the holy place, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, then let them which be in Judea flee....ect...ect. ' Jesus is not telling them to watch out for this future event if the event spoken of in Daniel had already been fulfilled during the time of Antiochus about 200 years before. No.

The abomination of desolation spoken of in Dan. 11:31 is the one Jesus is describing to them, but he is not describing it as a past event, but rather a future event. 

John McCarther rightly maintains the same man is being spoken of all the way from 11:21-35, but it is the wrong man. He has his identity being Antiochus Epiphanes, but it is actually the Antichrist all the way through till he comes to his end in 11:45 at the Second Coming. The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is in Dan. 11:31...John McCarther and others do not have the antichrist showing up until 36. 

Blessings to you- Gary