Who is Resurrected, and When?

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The second advent will be a continuing advent, just as were the advents of the Presence/Parousia of God at the two Passovers of Egypt & Judea. He comes and stays around, although not always visibly. Judgments of God take time, after all ...

I don't understand this.  When Jesus Christ returns to earth as King of kings, how can that be a "continuing advent".  When He comes back, He stays to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

The 2 passovers were NOT "advents".  Maybe we disagree as to the meaning of words, but the idea of His "coming back" isn't difficult at all.  Jesus came to earth as a baby.  That's the First Advent.  Prophesied in the OT.  Jesus will come back at the end of the GT as King of kings.  That's the Second Advent.

So, in the NT, every reference to the "coming of Jesus" is a reference to the Second Advent.

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, Keras said:

I agree. There will be a resurrection of the martyrs killed by the 'beast' and then a thousand years later the rising to stand before God in Judgment, of every human who has ever lived, including those martyrs, to give immortality to those whose names are found in the Book of Life and the Lake of Fire for all the rest. 

AMill is a direct rejection of plainly stated scripture. It is false teaching and denies that Jesus will have His reward of ruling the world. 

We still disagree.  Here is the evidence for 2 separate resurrections.

I've already noted 3 verses that plainly say that there will be a resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved.  That's the foundation.

Now, consider Rev 20:4-6

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

v.4 establishes the resurrection of the saved.  The Bible isn't required to mention EVERY SINGLE DETAIL in every mention of an event.  The plain fact that martyrs are mentioned indicates that this is the resurrection of the saved;  all the saved.

v.5 plainly refers to this resurrection as the "first resurrection" and mentions the SECOND resurrection, which is the resurrection of the unsaved.  The phrase "the rest of the dead" directly refers to the unsaved, and their resurrection will be 1,000 years AFTER the FIRST resurrection, which will be of the saved.

v.6 repeats the fact that the resurrection of the saved is the FIRST one.

Now, 1 Cor 15:23 -  But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse very clearly makes the point that "those who belong to Him" refers to EVERY saved person in history.  All of them, including the trib martyrs, will be in the FIRST resurrection, as Rev 20:4-6 says.

Why will the unsaved be resurrected?  For the GWT judgment.  And the LOF is also called the "second death".  This is a clear reference to the FACT that the unsaved will experience a SECOND physical death when cast into the LOF.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Keras said:

Show scriptures that say all the Christian dead will be resurrected when Jesus Returns. Make sure that any verse you use mentions 'all'. 

It is quite illogical and contradicts Prophecy, to have millions of resurrected people present during the Millennium. Especially before the Book of Life is opened. 

1 Cor 15:23 is that verse.  "those who belong to Him" cannot mean less than all believers throughout history.  It means every saved person.

The book of life is for the unsaved.  The ONLY reason the Judge will open this book is to show the unsaved that they rejected the free gift of eternal life.  

No one is cast into the LOF on account of their behavior.  Jesus died for all sins, so sins aren't the issue in their eternal fate.  The purpose of the GWT judgment is to assign the "level of toleration" IN the LOF.

Jesus taught this in Matt 10:15 and 11:22 and 24.

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

the idea of His "coming back" isn't difficult at all.  Jesus came to earth as a baby.  That's the First Advent.  Prophesied in the OT.  Jesus will come back at the end of the GT as King of kings.  That's the Second Advent.

So we you believe Jesus will descend from heaven and simply sit down on a throne at the end of the GT? Sorry, the process will be much longer and more complex than that. As any thorough reading of all the End Time prophecies makes abundantly clear.

The whole process will be very difficult indeed!

[FreeGrace]

2 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

So we you believe Jesus will descend from heaven and simply sit down on a throne at the end of the GT? Sorry, the process will be much longer and more complex than that. As any thorough reading of all the End Time prophecies makes abundantly clear.

The whole process will be very difficult indeed!

"Simply sit down"?  Really?  He comes back to END the GT at the battle of Armageddon.  Blood will flow as high as horses' bridles for about 180 miles.  And He resurrects/changes all believers "in the air".  Then the Bema, where He rewards all His faithful servants.  

So, no, He won't "simply sit down on a throne".  He WILL certainly sit on His throne, but He has a lot to do before He does that.

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

So, no, He won't "simply sit down on a throne".  He WILL certainly sit on His throne, but He has a lot to do before He does that

Yes he does. Starting with the "second time" he offers his blood of redemption in heaven. Lev. 16:15ff., Heb. 9:7, 28, Rev. 5:6. Followed by his opening of the five seals that allow the GT to take place; followed by his opening of the 6th seal in which his revelation/Parousia is manifested and his elect are resurrected and ascend; and then the trumpets which conclude with his kingship being proclaimed; and all concluding with the 7th bowl, when he defeats the nations etc. and establishes his Millennial reign.

"A lot to do."

[FreeGrace]

51 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Yes he does. Starting with the "second time" he offers his blood of redemption in heaven. Lev. 16:15ff., Heb. 9:7, 28, Rev. 5:6. Followed by his opening of the five seals that allow the GT to take place; followed by his opening of the 6th seal in which his revelation/Parousia is manifested and his elect are resurrected and ascend; and then the trumpets which conclude with his kingship being proclaimed; and all concluding with the 7th bowl, when he defeats the nations etc. and establishes his Millennial reign.

"A lot to do."

Redemption was paid on the cross.  Not when He comes back at the Second Advent.  And the seal judgments are what start the GT.  

By "and ascend" are you referring to pretrib rapture theology here or just the living being gathered "in the air" to meet all the dead saints that came to earth with the King?

[WilliamL]

4 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

I'm so glad that you have recognized and acknowledged the great truth (that so few have seen)  that is found in Hebrews 9 (& 10), namely,  verse 28, that bespeaks of the 2nd appearance of Christ... in the tabernacle that is not made with hands. 

And yet, strangely, I think that many if not most of us accept that the fall moedim/appointed times will be fulfilled in the second coming, just as the spring appointed times were fulfilled in the first.

'Cuz if so, Jesus' visit to the heavenly sanctuary, and thus his coming out of it "the second time," must be still to come. Because the Day of Atonement is the second appointed time in the End Times.

Which the evidence firmly points to Rev 5:6's "a lamb as having been slain..." as occurring on the Day of Atonement sometime soon.

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

5 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

  What people fail to grasp is that for Christ to appear the 2nd time in heaven (for us), is that he must leave off with his ministry as our great high priest,  by leaving heaven itself,  in order to appear with the saints the 2nd time

Now that thought is going to need some serious chawing on...

[Keras]

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

1 Cor 15:23 is that verse.  "those who belong to Him" cannot mean less than all believers throughout history.  It means every saved person.

The book of life is for the unsaved.  The ONLY reason the Judge will open this book is to show the unsaved that they rejected the free gift of eternal life.  

No one is cast into the LOF on account of their behavior.  Jesus died for all sins, so sins aren't the issue in their eternal fate.  The purpose of the GWT judgment is to assign the "level of toleration" IN the LOF.

Jesus taught this in Matt 10:15 and 11:22 and 24.

Wrong on three counts.

Of course 1 Cor 15:23 means only the GT martyrs, Rev 20:4 proves it.

The Book of Life is for every human being, Revelation 3:5  My belief is that everyone has their names Written in that Book at birth. But it can be and is erased because of disbelief or sins. 

The Lake of fire is the final end for all the ungodly and unrighteous people. They will no longer be even remembered.