Who is Resurrected, and When?

[DeighAnn]

56 minutes ago, Keras said:

They probably will, but Jesus specially brings their souls back with Him when He Returns. Revelation 20:4b

You started out with
"I haven't re-read all of this thread, but to reiterate what the Bible does tell us about a Resurrection when Jesus Returns: 

1/ It is only for the martyrs killed during the 42 month period of world Satanic control, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 20:4"

Then you replied with the quote "they probably will,..."


I can't follow that.  You have them returning with Jesus in one reply, but you have them being raised up at the end of the trib in the other.

So which is it?  They rise when their natural body is killed and go to be with the other souls under the altar,

or they rise up when Christ returns?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

Only that God says He will treat those who stand against the 'beast' differently.  The two Witnesses will be included with those martyrs. 

Where does God say that?


 

 

1 hour ago, Keras said:

The same as Lazarus was. Jesus made very sure that Lazarus was well and truly dead and decomposing. Also those Saints that rose when Jesus did, they were just mouldering bones, but they came back to mortal life. 

Your quote above, refers to what happens at the GWT Judgment. 

If 'neither doth corruption inherit incorruption' only is at the GWTJ, they why is it written 'will not let my soul see corruption in hell'?   That would not make sense if it was about that time.  

Also, if it was at the GWTJ then NO ONES name could be found in the book of life, could it?  So, that pretty much tells us WHEN that quote is for.  


As for Lazarus, I'll just let God say it
 

Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.

2(It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)

3Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.

4When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.


We have to be really careful in this chapter about who says what and what the replies to those statements are BECAUSE the discussions taking place are covering both those under the OLD and those who will be under the NEW Covenant.  

Jesus does address them in different verses, in a couple of different places, easy to see once you accept it such as

Martha, under the OLD COVENANT knowledge SAYS

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Which is about to take place when the old is put away and the New brought into being with His blood shed

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Those who died under the 'law of sin and death' were DEAD at that time (sleeping) but very soon their graves will be opened and they will be set free and He will lead the captives (them that slept) to heaven.  Just like He said when reading the Isaiah scroll in the temple 'today this is fulfilled' aka THE LAST DAY came and the DEAD resurrected. 

Since that time it has been every man in his own order...

how do we know that TRUTH?  Jesus told us this also when He said

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

The ungodly peoples, all of whom are dead before Jesus commences His Millennium reign. ONLY the faithful Christian peoples will go with Jesus into the Millennium. 

Then WHAT WOULD BE the point of the Millennium? 

How WOULD THAT, having ONLY THOSE ALREADY SAVED, in anyway, help to bring about GODS DESIRE?  

What is EVERYTHING that happens, everything we go through and everything that takes place really about? 

 WHAT DOES GOD WANT? 

For ALL to come to repentance.  Isn't that what all the work we are supposed to be doing for?  Bringing as many souls to repentance as possible?

We have all of eternity to live but only A SHORT TIME TO SAVE SOULS.   

Why have billions of priests walking around for a thousand years when they are going to be around in the NHNE anyway?  WHO would be gathered to 'gog and magog' if all their are are the faithful Christians?

 

[Keras]

45 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

can't follow that.  You have them returning with Jesus in one reply, but you have them being raised up at the end of the trib in the other.

The GT martyrs are brought back to life when Jesus Returns, which is at the end of the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:29-30

27 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Where does God say that?

Obviously the Two Witnesses are also GT martyrs. 

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Martha was referring to the Last Day, which has to be the GWT Judgment AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

19 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Then WHAT WOULD BE the point of the Millennium? 

The main reason for the Millennium reign of Jesus as King over the world, is that is His reward.  As God Promised to Jesus; Psalms 2:7-9

Also it will be the ultimate sorting out of who is a true follower of Jesus and who is fooled by Satan; Revelation 20:7-8

24 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 WHAT DOES GOD WANT? 

For ALL to come to repentance.  Isn't that what all the work we are supposed to be doing for?  Bringing as many souls to repentance as possible?

Sure, we all do what we can to achieve this, Just being 'salt and light' to our neighbors, if nothing else. 

I have done this, with many years of mission service, now at my time of life, my task is to promote the Prophetic Word.  Check out my website. 

[DeighAnn]

3 minutes ago, Keras said:

The GT martyrs are brought back to life when Jesus Returns, which is at the end of the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:29-30

That solves the problem for me and 

I recognize we will never be able to come to any sort of agreement on any of this and so let us just agree to disagree right now.  

The reason being is the question you so obviously answer with a NO,

I most definitely answer with a YES.  

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

If you did answer that question with a YES, you could not believe "The GT martyrs are brought back to life when Jesus Returns"

because that CLEARLY states THEY DO DIE or else they would have no need to be BROUGHT BACK to LIFE. 

So, thank you for your time here.  When you do read the thread, you will understand, I promise.  

[DeighAnn]

36 minutes ago, Keras said:

Martha was referring to the Last Day, which has to be the GWT Judgment AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

Martha didn't know about all the things we know about.  What MARTHA was expecting was THE KINGDOM that was being proclaimed to be coming into being. 

Martha didn't KNOW Jesus was about to be crucified and the Kingdom put off.

She didn't know a NEW COVENANT was about to be brought forth AS OPPOSED to the Kingdom.  

She didn't know the OLD COVENANT was coming to an abrupt end, did she??  She didn't know the last day of that covenant was right upon them.  

AND DID JESUS CONFIRM WHAT SHE SAID OR DID HE TELL HER SOMETHING ELSE?  

What was the LAST DAY they were waiting for?  When the DEAD would be resurrected.  AND THE DEAD WERE RESURRECTED.  

Have you ever heard of 'the last day' being spoken of AFTER Jesus was crucified and raised up?  Because All I can find is 'last days' but no more 'a last day'.  Interesting isn't it.  BUT HEY, if you know of one, please share this info with me.  If I am wrong I WANT TO KNOW NOW while there is still time for me to do something about it.  

But the OLD COVENANT did END.  And all the PROMISES that were made had to be fulfilled, even though the Kingdom was put in abeyance.  God couldn't promise them a last day and then just 'skip it' and bring in a whole new deal could He?  If He would have done that then why would we believe what He says He is going to do NOW He is going to do?  

Maybe I need to go back and study this some more, IDK.  I certainly don't want to just shoot from the hip like it didn't matter.   

Edited January 26, 2023 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

37 minutes ago, Keras said:

The main reason for the Millennium reign of Jesus as King over the world, is that is His reward.  As God Promised to Jesus; Psalms 2:7-9

Yes, to rule the nations with a rod of iron until he has....

 

so WHY would He be ruling over the believers who are SUPPOSED TO BE ruling and reigning WITH HIM? 

So lets say you are right and He is ruling over the 'believers' then who are we reigning over?  Each other?  

 

[DeighAnn]

42 minutes ago, Keras said:

I have done this, with many years of mission service, now at my time of life, my task is to promote the Prophetic Word.  Check out my website.

Let me ask you this.  Those who never heard the words of God, and so were never saved, who died in their trespasses through no fault of their own

do they just get kicked to the curb with a 'too bad so sad sucks to be you?'

Won't they EVER receive the same 'chance' that we got?

Since we are going to have all those priests being 'rewarded for 1000 years' HAVING been blessed in the first place by HEARING GODS TRUTH,  

don't you think THAT WOULD BE JUST A perfect TIME TO HAVE ALL THOSE DEAD RESURRECTED

(sure there would be some 'unjust' along with the 'just' raised up, but that isn't so different than it is today, is it?)


simply to find out IF 'HEARING GODS TRUTH' might ALSO bring them to repentance, just like it did us?  

WHAT A GREAT PLAN THAT WOULD BE. THINK OF HOW JUST THAT WOULD BE FOR EVERYONE WHO MISSED OUT ON THE FIRST RESURRECTION.  They might get their names in the book of life too....and EVEN MORE could come to repentance BEFORE it was too late. 
 

[Keras]

Thank you DeighAnn, a little patience is required. 

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

That solves the problem for me and 

I recognize we will never be able to come to any sort of agreement on any of this and so let us just agree to disagree right now.  

The reason being is the question you so obviously answer with a NO,

I most definitely answer with a YES.  

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

If you did answer that question with a YES, you could not believe "The GT martyrs are brought back to life when Jesus Returns"

because that CLEARLY states THEY DO DIE or else they would have no need to be BROUGHT BACK to LIFE. 

So, thank you for your time here.  When you do read the thread, you will understand, I promise.  

Your reply is confusing. 

We do both agree that when Jesus Returns, He will bring the souls of the people killed during the 42 months of world control of the 'beast'?

He will resurrect them, [only the GT martyrs] but only to physical life. What Jesus Promised in John 3:16 and John 11:26=5-26, is true, but it doesn't happen until the final Judgement of everyone. Rev 20:11-15

I read the Bible, it tells me all I need to know. 

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

But the OLD COVENANT did END.  And all the PROMISES that were made had to be fulfilled, even though the Kingdom was put in abeyance.  God couldn't promise them a last day and then just 'skip it' and bring in a whole new deal could He?  If He would have done that then why would we believe what He says He is going to do NOW He is going to do?  

I suggest you look up all the relevant Prophesies about when the New Covenant will be promulgated and made with His people. 

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

So lets say you are right and He is ruling over the 'believers' then who are we reigning over?  Each other?  

Yes.  Those resurrected martyrs will be His Priests and co-rulers. Rev 20:6

And it will be a time of peace and great prosperity. People will live much longer and there will be no disease. Isaiah 65:18-25, Micah 4:1-5, Psalms 47:1-9. +

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Let me ask you this.  Those who never heard the words of God, and so were never saved, who died in their trespasses through no fault of their own

do they just get kicked to the curb with a 'too bad so sad sucks to be you?'

Won't they EVER receive the same 'chance' that we got?

Paul answers this in Romans 1:18-32   Paul also tells us that some people have been made for destruction. Romans 9:22

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

don't you think THAT WOULD BE JUST A perfect TIME TO HAVE ALL THOSE DEAD RESURRECTED

God's Plan is perfect. 

All the people whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be resurrected into Eternal life, AFTER the Millennium. 

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, Keras said:

Phew! Thats all a heavy response. Luckily I am a retired man and have just done the gardening chores!

I showed the parallel between 1 Cor 15:52-56 and Revelation 20:4    They both tell of the time when Death will be no more.   Clearly, from Rev 20:4, it will be the time after the Millennium, when the new Heavens and Earth come; which is Eternity. 

Nowhere does the Bible say that anyone receives immortality before that time. Job, David and Lazarus; ALL wait for the Great While Throne Judgment, at the end of the 7000 year plan of God for mankind.

The 7th Trumpet, Revelation 11:11-19, is paralleled with Revelation 12:7-12, where Satan is thrown out of heaven and Jesus becomes the Sovreign of the earth. But that is what will happen in heaven; on earth God then allows Satan to rule for the final 42 months before Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:1-18

The 7 Bowls follow this heavenly event, culminating in the 7th Bowl of the Battle of Armageddon. Revelation 16:16-18

Shalom, Keras.

You're forgetting the BASIC facts!

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For THE LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN WITH A SHOUT, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, AND WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD: AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul clearly taught that people are raised to life AT THE MESSIAH'S COMING, not just at the GWTJ!

Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 15:52-56 is the same event portrayed in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17! Paul is merely talking about the RESURRECTION in 1 Corinthians 15 more than just the Second Coming:

1 Corinthians 15:52-56 (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery (a secret); We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"Death is swallowed up in victory!" (Isaiah 25:8) 

55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" (Hosea 13:14)

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ (our Master [and King] Yeeshuwa` the Messiah)!

 

This is why it is so DANGEROUS to a true understanding of Scripture to start making parallel fullfillments in Revelation!

The battle at Har-Megiddown (Tel Megiddo) is not at the END of His Kingdom; it's at the BEGINNING! This battle is the final conquest of the LAND of Israel, not of the entire world! The Messiah still has to reign until He has subdued ALL of His enemies, "when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power!" That doesn't happen at His Coming nor at the Battle of Har-Megiddown!