Who is Resurrected, and When?

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi truth7t7

Zechariah 14:18- And if the family  of Egypt  go not up, and come, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up  to keep  the feast of tabernacles

And there is more.

But God will have to create misbehaving Egyptians in the scenario above. The kind that need rain (in a spiritual realm? why?) 

Reconsider with scripture guiding.

2 Peter 3:6:- Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The "Eternal Kingdom"

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV

3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:

4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by truth7t7

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

What about those nations that had fought against Jerusalem? Are they transported to the New Earth to get disobedient by not attending the Feast of Tabernacles? Don't they get burned up?

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

What about those nations that had fought against Jerusalem? Are they transported to the New Earth to get disobedient by not attending the Feast of Tabernacles? Don't they get burned up?

Uriah you have been clearly shown in this thread, when Jesus Christ returns its fire time (The End)

Zechariah 14:8 alone clearly tells you the "Eternal River Of Life" in "Living Waters" is flowing out of Jerusalem, mortal humans aren't present?

Zechariah 14:12 clearly shows the Lord last day judgement by fire, as men are consumed as they are standing on their feet?

When you read 2 Peter 3:10-13, it's the very same "Day Of The Lord" taking place as seen in Zechariah 14:1, when the earth is dissolved by fire (The End)

Why do you disregard these facts of scripture as if they don't exist?

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited January 27, 2023 by truth7t7

[DeighAnn]

20 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

First, I gave you the very words of Jesus.  If you think I have misunderstood what Jesus said about WHEN a person possesses eternal life, or the result of receiving the gift of eternal life, please illuminate me with "real truth".

Thank you.

I firmly believe that what Jesus said is absolutely the truth about eternal security.

But I'm quite willing to see what "real truth" you may have.

iow, prove that neither John 5:24 or 10:28 are about eternal security.

The gift of Salvation ALWAYS REMAINS THE SAME on HIS SIDE.  

The PROBLEM is NEVER with His side, HE REMAINS FAITHFUL, it isALWAYS with ours.  Ever read the many many 'IF'S'?  Are we to NEGATE all the IFs so that your UNDERSTANDING can remain as it is?

If we, then He,

If we quit, that's on us, not HIM.

Truly, truly I say to you that the [one] the word of Me hearing and believing the {One} having sent Me, he has life eternal and into judgment not comes but has passed out of death into life.

IF THEY QUIT BELIEVING then THEY don't have it any more.  NOT BECAUSE GOD CHANGED but the reason the gift is AVAILABLE is under CERTAIN CONDITIONS. 
 
YOU choose the route of 'then they never were saved' EVEN THOUGH it is told us with words like fallen away, turned from, were deceived, partook of the Holy Spirit, ect. clearly words that would be said to someone who WAS as opposed to someone who never was.  Someone who NEVER WAS wouldn't FALL AWAY as they never would have come to aka never been saved. 

DOCTRINES not found written, NEVER WORK.  And to place your beliefs in those that aren't, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT is ACTUALLY written, makes no sense to me. 

 I 100% believe in eternal salvation.  I just don't think GOD is bound to a contract that isn't being upheld by both sides.  That is just common sense.  

 I choose the route of THE GIFT OFFERED REMAINED  and even though we can COUNT ON GODS WORD never changing, 

MANs on the other hand, we cannot, BUT AS LONG AS He does, when he dies he will go to heaven,
BUT if that man DOESN'T, and by the time his natural body dies,he has gone the way of the world, he has turned his back on that saving grace, has become a follower of Satan, been deceived because he didn't put on the gospel armor

GOD ISN'T FORCED to SAVE that soul.  a soul that FALLS AWAY, that takes the mark of the beast, that quits believing and having faith is not the same.  So how can he still claim it as if he were? 

It is our PAST SINS and sins repented of that are forgiven, not our FUTURE ones, EVEN THOUGH the price was paid, no one gets to claim future payments unless they are REQUESTED.    

 

GOD IS THE SAME ALWAYS.  THERE IS NO TURNING in HIM.  Jesus is the WORD, the words made flesh...not a jot or tittle changed.  

So, there is only 'ONE', I have to answer to, and that is GOD.  I do not have to PROVE anything to you, and I never will.  

Ever read this WARNING?

16And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from Me.

18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness,

and commit iniquity,

and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die:
because thou hast not given him warning,
he shall die in his sin,
and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered;
but his blood will I require at thine hand.
 

21Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not,
and he doth not sin,
he shall surely live,
because he is warned;
also thou hast delivered thy soul.

22And the hand of the LORD was there upon me; and he said unto me, Arise, go forth into the plain, and I will there talk with thee.

23Then I arose, and went forth into the plain: and, behold, the glory of the LORD stood there, as the glory which I saw by the river of Chebar: and I fell on my face.

24Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet, and spake with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house.

25But thou, O son of man, behold, they shall put bands upon thee, and shall bind thee with them, and thou shalt not go out among them:

26And I will make thy tongue cleave to the roof of thy mouth, that thou shalt be dumb, and shalt not be to them a reprover: for they are a rebellious house.

27But when I speak with thee, I will open thy mouth, and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; He that heareth, let him hear; and he that forbeareth, let him forbear: for they are a rebellious house.


 

The sheep of Me, the voice of Me hear, and I know them and they follow Me
and I give them life eternal and never not shall they perish to the age and never will seize them out of the hand of Me.

HAVE TO FOLLOW HIM.  HE IS IN HEAVEN.  SO ETERNAL LIFE IS GIVEN IN HEAVEN. 

and THEY NEVER DIE. THEY NEVER PERSISH.

SO, IF THEY NEVER DIE, NEVER PERISH, THEN

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FROM THEM TO BE RESURRECTED WITH THE DEAD WHEN CHRIST RETURNS? 

And doesn't the death of the natural body produce the seed that God gives a body to? 

And isn't it written the natural body is sown, the spiritual body raised?
And isn't it written the spiritual body raised in glory?
 

So how do they go from never dying and being raised up IN GLORY

to DEAD

and then resurrected with OTHER dead?   What happened to the ETERNAL LIFE they were given?  Does eternal life now mean 'TEMPORARY DEATH'?  

Then again, seems some believe the 2nd death doesn't MEAN DEATH AT ALL but eternal life IN TORMENT.



 

[DeighAnn]

20 hours ago, Keras said:

Yes, similar to how we are now, with city mayors and civic leaders, but King Jesus will appoint Presidents of the 12 groups of the peoples. Ezekiel 48:1-45

So AGAIN who are we ruling and reigning over?  Who are the people in the cities?  Are they all saved?  If so are they all just ruling and reigning over each other, because that makes no sense.  What would be the purpose.  

I am not looking for the dynamics of it all just THE WHO.  Who is where and doing what when.  SO weird how the simpliest questions become these back and forth things.  

These are the IRON that sharpen.  The nations will come to worship and if they don't no rain......

Again, to be specific, what sort of 'BEINGS' make up the NATIONS?  Saved souls or unsaved souls?  

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Why do you disregard these facts of scripture as if they don't exist?

This is exactly what you just did. Refused to answer a simple question. I have read your repeated posts of the same verses. Now answer mine please.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Uriah
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[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The gift of Salvation ALWAYS REMAINS THE SAME on HIS SIDE.

[double click failed.  I don't what you are referring to.  Salvation remains the same on ALL sides, whatever you mean by that.]  

The PROBLEM is NEVER with His side, HE REMAINS FAITHFUL, it isALWAYS with ours.  Ever read the many many 'IF'S'?  Are we to NEGATE all the IFs so that your UNDERSTANDING can remain as it is?

[We need to understand the context of ALL the "ifs".  And NONE, I said NONE, of the "if" verses say anything about salvation or eternal life.

Or, prove me wrong with any verse that says salvation can be lost IF we don't comply with some requirement.]

If we, then He,

If we quit, that's on us, not HIM.

[Nope.  You have NO verses that salvation is conditioned on anything on our part other than simply to receive salvation.  Which is by trust in Him.]

Truly, truly I say to you that the [one] the word of Me hearing and believing the {One} having sent Me, he has life eternal and into judgment not comes but has passed out of death into life.

IF THEY QUIT BELIEVING then THEY don't have it any more.  NOT BECAUSE GOD CHANGED but the reason the gift is AVAILABLE is under CERTAIN CONDITIONS.

[Show me any verse that says those who quit believing will lose salvation.  And I'm not demanding specific wording.  You don't have any and you know you don't.

What jesus said in the clearest of words that believers possess eternal life.  It doesn't take a doctorate to understand that this means that the MOMENT a person becomes a believer, they POSSESS eternal life.  And from THAT MOMENT, all that Jesus said in that verse apply:

1.  possesses eternal life

2. will NOT come into judgment

3.  has passed out of death into life

And you are not going to CHANGE what Jesus said or the results of becoming a believer.] 
YOU choose the route of 'then they never were saved' EVEN THOUGH it is told us with words like fallen away, turned from, were deceived, partook of the Holy Spirit, ect. clearly words that would be said to someone who WAS as opposed to someone who never was.  Someone who NEVER WAS wouldn't FALL AWAY as they never would have come to aka never been saved.

[Let me help you out here.  I've NEVER taken that cheap shoddy approach to the Bible.  That's just a Calvinist excuse for believers who sin.  Heb 6:4-6 is definirtely about saved people, and the text does NOT say they lose salvation.  One only reads that into the text.  We call that eisegesis, rather than exegesis.] 

DOCTRINES not found written, NEVER WORK.  And to place your beliefs in those that aren't, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT is ACTUALLY written, makes no sense to me.

[Then you need to repent of the "doctrines" you espouse that aren't found in the Bible.] 

 I 100% believe in eternal salvation.  I just don't think GOD is bound to a contract that isn't being upheld by both sides.  That is just common sense.

[So then are are talking out of both sides of your mouth.  Out of 1 side, you say you believe in eternal salvation, but out of the other side you believe that God isn't bound to a contract that isn't being "upheld by both sides".  What a mess.

First salvation isn't some "contract".  That's just another doctrine of demons.

Salvation is a gift.  Not a contract.  You are totally confused, unfortunately.] 

 I choose the route of THE GIFT OFFERED REMAINED  and even though we can COUNT ON GODS WORD never changing,

[That's not what everything you've said so far.  Again, you are very confused.] 

GOD ISN'T FORCED to SAVE that soul.  a soul that FALLS AWAY, that takes the mark of the beast, that quits believing and having faith is not the same.  So how can he still claim it as if he were?

[Fantasizing here.  There is no indication that any believer will take the mark.  If God allowed any believer to do that, and the Bible guarantees that person will end up in the LOF, that would only make God a LIAR for guaranteeing eternal life when He doesn't.  But I guess you don't see how confused you are.

John 5:24 guarantees eternal security without any "if" conditions.  John 10:28 guarantees eternal security  without any "if" conditions.  Eph 1:13,14, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 guarantees eternal security without anuy "if" conditions.]

It is our PAST SINS and sins repented of that are forgiven, not our FUTURE ones, EVEN THOUGH the price was paid, no one gets to claim future payments unless they are REQUESTED.

[Another docrrine of demons.  Read Hebrews 10.]    

Ever read this WARNING?

16And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from Me.

18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness,
and commit iniquity,

[The "death" here is physical death, or capital punishment.  None of this is about losing salvation.]
The sheep of Me, the voice of Me hear, and I know them and they follow Me
and I give them life eternal and never not shall they perish to the age and never will seize them out of the hand of Me.

[The ones Jesus gives eternal life is found in John 5:24; believers.  So, from the MOMENT one becomes a believer they are guaranteed that they shall never perish.  But your post shows that you don't believe that.  You think there are "if" conditions that will remove salvation.]

HAVE TO FOLLOW HIM.  HE IS IN HEAVEN.  SO ETERNAL LIFE IS GIVEN IN HEAVEN.

[Confused.  John 5:24 PROVES that eternal life is POSSESSED the MOMENT one becomes a believer.] 

Then again, seems some believe the 2nd death doesn't MEAN DEATH AT ALL but eternal life IN TORMENT.

Of course it means death.  Man is born spiritually dead.  Read Romans 5.  All unbelievers will be resurrected into their mortal bodies to appear before the GWT judgment.  And their mortal physical bodies will definitely die AGAIN when they are cast into the LOF.  That is why the LOF is called the "second death".

[Keras]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I am not looking for the dynamics of it all just THE WHO.  Who is where and doing what when.  SO weird how the simpliest questions become these back and forth things.  

ALL the faithful Christian peoples, from every tribe, race, nation and language. 

I thought that was clear, it is in Isaiah 66:18b-21 and Revelation 7:9

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  The nations will come to worship and if they don't no rain.....

Just like now, many Christians fail to give to God their proper and regular worship. 

I think that the requirement to travel to Jerusalem every year, Zechariah 14:16, just means a representative of each family, or people group. 

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, Uriah said:

What about those nations that had fought against Jerusalem? Are they transported to the New Earth to get disobedient by not attending the Feast of Tabernacles? Don't they get burned up?

Uriah it appears your trying to claim disobedience is seen in those not going to the feast of tabernacles, in a attempt to disqualify Zechariah 14 as being the eternal kingdom in the NHNE

Scripture clearly teaches below its a "warning", it hasn't happened as the word "IF" is used, there isn't disobedience or plagues, but a "warning"

1.) Now what are you going to do with the fact the "Day Of The Lord" has taken place Zechariah 14:1, same day as seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 when this earth is dissolved by fire?

2.) What are you going to do with the river of life seen in Zechariah 14:8?

Zechariah 14:18KJV

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

Uriah it appears your trying to claim disobedience is seen in those not going to the feast of tabernacles, in a attempt to disqualify Zechariah 14 as being the eternal kingdom in the NHNE

My question was clear. You are avoiding it. You only provided things I did NOT ask about. Why? Will you answer this one?

Zec 14:16- And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Is this AFTER the world is burned up?