The Battle is Real. The Battle is Spiritual. What to do?

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, Dan Knight said:

Whoa man, that is so wrong on so many levels.  The cross is not a divider, nor are any of the other festivals. 

He’s actually quoting St. Paul from Colossians, Galatians, Ephesians, Romans, and especially Philippians:

“Philippians 3:4-11

[4] though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: [5] circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; [6] as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. [7] But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. [8] Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ [9] and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—[10] that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [11] that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.” 

If Jesus as Lord and Son of God is not your focus (Hebrews 12:2), and enough, then you arn’t Christian but are falling back into the law which is obsolete now (Hebrews 8;13) and fulfilled by Christ on our behalf, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. [3] For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1-4)

The Cross is a divider, you either believe “It is Finished,” and Jesus saved you, or your don’t and hold to the traditions of men Of trying to save yourself and do all this law keeping. 
 

“For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.” (Philippians 3:18) 

“May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.” (Galatians 6:14)

[Sower]

5 hours ago, Dan Knight said:

Whoa man, that is so wrong on so many levels.  The cross is not a divider, nor are any of the other festivals. 

 

"Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

‘a man against his father,

a daughter against her mother,

a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

A man’s enemies will be the members

of his own household.’i

Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it" Matt 10, 34-42

 

[Dan Knight]

1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Didn't mean to imply that it was. Let me ask you this: do you believe there is something more reserved in heaven for a Messianic Jew  than anyone else? That's the impression I get. 

And I didn't mean to imply that.  Gal 3:1-29. :28-there is neither Jew nor Gentile...for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 

I can see how I misconstrued your initial intent, and I stand corrected and I apologize my friend. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Dan Knight
Correct spelling.

[Dan Knight]

1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

He’s actually quoting St. Paul from Colossians, Galatians, Ephesians, Romans, and especially Philippians:

“Philippians 3:4-11

[4] though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: [5] circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; [6] as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. [7] But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. [8] Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ [9] and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—[10] that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [11] that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.” 

If Jesus as Lord and Son of God is not your focus (Hebrews 12:2), and enough, then you arn’t Christian but are falling back into the law which is obsolete now (Hebrews 8;13) and fulfilled by Christ on our behalf, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. [3] For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin iin the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1-4)

The Cross is a divider, you either believe “It is Finished,” and Jesus saved you, or your don’t and hold to the traditions of men Of trying to save yourself and do all this law keeping. 
 

“For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.” (Philippians 3:18) 

“May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.” (Galatians 6:14)

I stand corrected and have submitted a heart felt apology. 

[Ancient]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:32 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

Sorry, my friend. Sounds like you're still Jewish to me. And I say this to all who so strongly feel the need to infuse Christianity with old Jewish tradition and wordage. Live your life in Christ on this side of the cross. 

Wow, you assume much. You know nothing about me. What if I was Jewish is that a problem? Paul says it does not matter if one is Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free.

Our Messiah manifested as a Jew. !! Lived His life 100% according to the Hebrew scriptures. You misunderstand the law and following it does not save you, it blesses you!!!

Do you know what God's word says which is the Torah the Law. Read It!!!

Yeshua, Paul and the other apostles all advocated for the adherence of the Torah they were all Jewish. What is your answer when Yeshua says depart from me I never knew you who practice lawlessness? What is Lawlessness?

By the way I am not Jewish as far as I know as it does not matter weather one is or isn't. As far as living on this side of the cross Messiah was crucified before the foundations of the world. Before the Torah was given He always was. He is the Torah. What you are saying is that He is a third of the word beginning in Matt. Well here is a news flash All the Gospels up to the Crucifixion is in the OT. Think on that for a minute. Everything Yeshua taught and said is rooted and based in the OT mostly quoting Deuteronomy do you know what the first 5 books teach and say read it you might learn something.

I am done with the church denominational doctrines of men and demons.

I will stick with the Bible and the word made flesh and the Holy Spirit thanks. Not replacement theology or Anti-Semitism.

Shalom

[Dan Knight]

33 minutes ago, Ancient said:

Wow, you assume much. You know nothing about me. What if I was Jewish is that a problem? Paul says it does not matter if one is Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free.

Our Messiah manifested as a Jew. !! Lived His life 100% according to the Hebrew scriptures. You misunderstand the law and following it does not save you, it blesses you!!!

Do you know what God's word says which is the Torah the Law. Read It!!!

Yeshua, Paul and the other apostles all advocated for the adherence of the Torah they were all Jewish. What is your answer when Yeshua says depart from me I never knew you who practice lawlessness? What is Lawlessness?

By the way I am not Jewish as far as I know as it does not matter weather one is or isn't. As far as living on this side of the cross Messiah was crucified before the foundations of the world. Before the Torah was given He always was. He is the Torah. What you are saying is that He is a third of the word beginning in Matt. Well here is a news flash All the Gospels up to the Crucifixion is in the OT. Think on that for a minute. Everything Yeshua taught and said is rooted and based in the OT mostly quoting Deuteronomy do you know what the first 5 books teach and say read it you might learn something.

I am done with the church denominational doctrines of men and demons.

I will stick with the Bible and the word made flesh and the Holy Spirit thanks. Not replacement theology or Anti-Semitism.

Shalom

Point very well made. Be at peace my friend.  

[Ancient]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:11 PM, Alive said:

And thus one ‘sect’ is traded for another. An old story and the source is consistent.

There is only one basis for fellowship and that is a knowledge and conviction that those In Christ are one In Christ and Himself as Head of His Church.

If an individual views themselves as ‘special’ for any other reason…this is fleshy.

I call it ‘speci-ality’.

One Lord, one faith and one baptism. If your life is indeed hidden in Christ with God. That is alone what makes you special.

You are correct there is only one way.

Replacement theology and Anti-Semitism is not that way.

Following Yeshua the way the 1st century disciples is that way, well before, centuries in fact any church denomination or the doctrines of men (church fathers) were around. Who were mostly Anti-Semitic hence the root of the disgusting vile doctrines that are with us today, purely the work of Satan himself.

"The Way" as they were called were known at the time as another branch of Judaism as at the time there were around a dozen branches of Judaism with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes being the well known ones. They followed and kept the 7th Day Biblical Sabbath, the Feasts of Yahweh and ate clean as the Gospels, Paul's and other's letters all bear witness to those facts.

Yes there are differences to "The Way" and all the other sects of the day. Being the Messiah who manifested as a Jew, literally from the tribe of Judah. The word made flesh. Who Himself taught these truths

NKJ John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

NKJ John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

Now at the time He taught and declared these facts there was no New Testament, He hadn't literally died on the cross yet, so no renewed covenant. What were the scriptures they had? What were the commandments? What was the Doctrine of His Father?

They had the Hebrew scriptures the Old Testament. The commandments are those found in that Testament. The Doctrine of His Father is the same Old Testament/The Law/The Torah.

Well I love Yeshua I follow the commandments that apply to me. As I am a male, and not a High Priest. There are Laws for females that I cannot adhere to. It is impossible for anyone person to keep the whole law for these reasons alone. 

Again because I love Yeshua. These commandments do not save me. I am saved by the blood of Yeshua alone. Which is based in the Torah also, represented by the innocent blood of animal sacrifices (clean foods). Guarding and protecting these commandments bless me as taught in Deut 28. 

There is no where in the New Testament that says these commandments are done away with or finished. There is not one scriptures that teaches the Biblical 7th Day Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday, or either all foods are clean. To say these and others implies the God makes mistakes and is a liar. Sounds like these come from the Father of lies to me.

And before you go quoting Matt 5:17 do a thorough study on what fulfilled means.

Also Rom 10:4 thoroughly research what the end means.

And Colossians 2:16 about judging food and drink etc thoroughly investigate what is being taught here.

My experience shows me that people love quoting these verse and others like it and they do not understand context, biblical languages and biblical culture all of which MUST be applied into more accurately understanding the Bible.

I do what James the brother of Yeshua teaches in

Jas. 2:17-20 NKJ

 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-- and tremble!
 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 

The context of works is the commandments. James (Jacob) is a Jew who lived in Jerusalem. People know who you are by your works, by how you live i.e., keeping the commandments is the witness of who you are.

Again I love Yeshua I will live the rest of my days keeping His commandments. I would rather be found to be Lawful than Lawless as the consequences of the latter are very serious.

Shalom

Edited July 6, 2022 by Ancient

[Ancient]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:11 PM, Alive said:

And thus one ‘sect’ is traded for another. An old story and the source is consistent.

There is only one basis for fellowship and that is a knowledge and conviction that those In Christ are one In Christ and Himself as Head of His Church.

If an individual views themselves as ‘special’ for any other reason…this is fleshy.

I call it ‘speci-ality’.

One Lord, one faith and one baptism. If your life is indeed hidden in Christ with God. That is alone what makes you special.

What issue do you have? The reply I gave was to another member revealing that these people were Jews from the nations. What is it with my reply to that member that you have issue with did I say anything untrue? I was instructing on who the 3,000 were. Must be stirring up some sacred cows. Don't mean to cause offensive however His word (the truth) does that sometimes.

Shalom

[Ancient]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:32 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

Sorry, my friend. Sounds like you're still Jewish to me. And I say this to all who so strongly feel the need to infuse Christianity with old Jewish tradition and wordage. Live your life in Christ on this side of the cross. 

Are you saying that God's word is old Jewish tradition? Just need to clarify.

Shalom

[Alive]

I would like to just point out a couple of things, but to be clear, I am speaking as an individual and not representing the Worthy Forum.

Regarding the keeping of Law as a principle focus.

It is true that Jesus spoke while in His earthly ministry of keeping the law. He had two audiences in the main.

1. The Jewish rulers of the day who He always corrected and expanded on the Law to both encompass much more and to clarify the focus to be on the heart.

2. The other audience was His disciples in preparing them for the future ministry. He pretty much wrapped it up by saying that He had many more things to teach them, but that they could not hear it now—but rather needed to wait until the Holy Spirit indwelled them with power and understanding. We have the benefit of those ‘many other things’ He continued to teach represented in the NT scriptures.

The Holy Spirit through the authors, expanded on many things including the nature of Law, its principle juxtaposed against the new heart of the ‘born from above’ saints in which the Holy Spirit dwells in order to teach and guide. The New Way is of course Christ in us. The Word in and with us.

Historically, we see through the book of Acts and Epistles, that the Lord Himself manipulated events to move the focus away from  Jerusalem, the synagogues and Judaism—on to freer ground. Ground not bound by the old wine, but free to grow in and by the Spirit. Among other things, this moved the focus from the letter of the Law to a Life Lived by Christ within.

The Law was not done away with, but rather was moved to a New realm. Into the ‘made Alive’ hearts of each son of God by the power of the resurrected Christ in each one.

It is profitable to understand the feasts and all else in the record insofar as all of it points to Jesus Christ. This is worthy, but the focus must be on Christ Himself in each believer and the Church corporate.

There are those who make the rounds in various christian forums whose emphasis is on law keeping. It is what it is, and this provides a means for discussion and learning and always bringing the focus to Christ. This is what the Holy Spirit does in the Body. He points to Christ. Always. This is a metric by which we can all discern; is Christ being pointed to as the final and complete lacking nothing solution?

Sometimes a different focus can be very direct and obvious. Other times, more subtle.

I have one final point to make as I was praying last night about how to respond this morning, the Lord gave me this:

It is one thing for an individual following a personal conviction regarding law keeping and Judaism. It is another thing to attempt to put those things on others. Others who are ‘In Christ’ and indeed have the Holy Spirit within them to teach and guide.

The Law was and remains a tutor to bring us to Christ. This is still happening in born from above regenerated saints. The Holy Spirit is still using ‘law keeping’ and the difficulties of keeping it by man’s efforts, in order to convey each one ‘into’ the Liberty of Christ. The Law of the Spirit of Life.

May the Lord bless and keep us focused on Himself.

The result of a New Life in Christ is a changed life. A life of holiness as the Lord works in us. The focus is not the law keeping, but the Life within.

 

We enter His Rest and He then fulfills the law in and through us.

 

Focus.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Alive