Isa 53'and Jewish Rabbis

[JohnD]

Slibhin, perhaps you should consult Messianic Jewish Rabbis like:

Arnold Fruchtenbaum

Barney Kasdan

David H. Stern

My Beloved  Bride and I attended Rabbi Kasdan's congregation (Kehilat Ariel) on occasion (I work Saturdays) and kept Pesach with them twice.

I used to deliver mail to his parents too. 

Righteous people.

[JohnR7]

What is the question? First you look at who the Bible was written for. Then you look at how the Bible applies to us today. The Bible is literal truth and the Bible is symbolic at the same time. One does not cancel out the other. This is what they teach in Bible College. The Bible is written so a child can understand. If you do not grasp the simple you are not going to be able to understand the more complex. 

[Wayne222]

27 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

When people ask questions I assume they wish a response. My mistake.

I think you are making a mistake by thinking I wanted advice on Isa 53 . And was looking for answers. I already am fix on my beliefs that Jesus is Messiah. I was looking for help to refute the Orthodox Jewish views. But blessings to you.

[Selah7]

3 hours ago, Slibhin said:

There is nothing in the Tanakh to lead me to believe this has to do with anything other than Israel.

"But you, Israel My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham, who loved Me"

- Isaiah 41:8

 

So, who or what does “the seed of Abraham” refer to, according to your understanding?     

S.

[Starise]

One of the marks of a cult- A group of people who trust a handful of leaders to tell them what their holy book says, said group shuns any who reject those ideas and rewards loyalty to the group. The peer pressure is enormous since family are all into it.

Cults often have or are based on religious trimmings to give them the appearance of legitimacy. They often include a lot of truth. Eventually though the belief system veers from a focus on truth and more goes toward the goals of the group leaders. Often these leaders will make up their own truths which are really lies.

There is also the biblical concept of a person or persons being willingly blinded. The follower's concern is to follow the group above all else, so God then allows the person to follow blind pursuits and will not open their eyes since they preferred not to have them opened.

I think I understand how a person can be so convinced of something. I was once under some teachings that were contrary to the bible and was always hesitant to listen to anyone who had a different opinion on it because at the time I was convinced the way I believed was THE way. The Lord eventually brought me around. In many ways He is still bringing me around to those truths sometimes not mentioned or hidden in certain teachings.

These comments are in no way intended to be derogatory, although if Slibin reads them, she will probably think so. When we follow a path of clear logic and study though, It becomes increasingly difficult to arrive at any other conclusion about Isaiah 52-53. If this hurts feelings or causes someone to get defensive or upset. That was not my intention.

 

[ayin jade]

4 minutes ago, Starise said:

One of the marks of a cult- A group of people who trust a handful of leaders to tell them what their holy book says, said group shuns any who reject those ideas and rewards loyalty to the group. The peer pressure is enormous since family are all into it.

Cults often have or are based on religious trimmings to give them the appearance of legitimacy. They often include a lot of truth. Eventually though the belief system veers from a focus on truth and more goes toward the goals of the group leaders. Often these leaders will make up their own truths which are really lies.

There is also the biblical concept of a person or persons being willingly blinded. The follower's concern is to follow the group above all else, so God then allows the person to follow blind pursuits and will not open their eyes since they preferred not to have them opened.

I think I understand how a person can be so convinced of something. I was once under some teachings that were contrary to the bible and was always hesitant to listen to anyone who had a different opinion on it because at the time I was convinced the way I believed was THE way. The Lord eventually brought me around. In many ways He is still bringing me around to those truths sometimes not mentioned or hidden in certain teachings.

These comments are in no way intended to be derogatory, although if Slibin reads them, she will probably think so. When we follow a path of clear logic and study though, It becomes increasingly difficult to arrive at any other conclusion about Isaiah 52-53. If this hurts feelings or causes someone to get defensive or upset. That was not my intention.

 

Are you saying that Judaism is a cult? Seriously?

You do realize that Christianity is considered a cult by many and certainly was in its beginnings. 

 

Definition per merriam webster

1: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious also : its body of adherents

2a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book)criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrityespecially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad

b: the object of such devotion

c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion the singer's cult of fans The film has a cult following.

3: a system of religious beliefs and ritualalso : its body of adherents the cult of Apollo

4: formal religious veneration : WORSHIP

5: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator health cults

[Starise]

I think you have to admit there are a lot of similarities.

[Starise]

2 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

You do realize that Christianity is considered a cult by many and certainly was in its beginnings. 

Yes I know that. Are you putting Orthodox Judaism and Christianity on the same footing here?

[ayin jade]

1 minute ago, Starise said:

Yes I know that. Are you putting Orthodox Judaism and Christianity on the same footing here?

As far as cult status? Yes since I do not consider either one to be a cult. 

[Starise]

Is a religion that leads people straight to hell any better?