WHERE does the SPIRITUAL BODY go when the flesh dies? UP or down

[Cntrysner]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Thank you for the response.  

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

I’m not a biblical scholar by any means but I will try to explain.

Israel under the law was given a promise of an earthly kingdom and my understanding is it will be new Jerusalem that will descend from heaven to earth. Jesus raised from the dead is the prototype of the resurrected flesh and bone bodies that will enter the earthly kingdom.

Eze 36:22  Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 
Eze 36:23  And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 
Eze 36:24  For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 
Eze 36:25  Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 
Eze 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 
Eze 36:27  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 
Eze 36:28  And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eze 37:7  So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 
Eze 37:8  And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 
Eze 37:9  Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 
Eze 37:10  So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 
Eze 37:11  Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Eze 37:12  Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 
Eze 37:13  And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 
Eze 37:14  And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.  

Peter at Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus believed that earthly kingdom (Mat 3:2) (Mat 19:28) (Luk 12:32) (Act 1:6-8) had come but it was postponed and the nation of Israel was cut off and became loammi because of unbelief but God will graft them in again.

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 
Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 
Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 
Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Rom 11:29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 
Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 
Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 
Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How does  'Flesh will be raised'  not conflict with 'thou sowest NOT that body that shall be'?  I don't think I am understanding what you are saying here.  Could you explain that for me?  Thank you.  

There is a earthly kingdom promised to Israel with resurrected flesh and a heavenly kingdom promised to the body of Christ with a spiritual body that ascends to be with Christ. The ascended Christ with a glorified body that is not flesh and bone is our prototype.
 

[Dennis1209]

On 8/17/2022 at 3:01 PM, AdHoc said:

There is one thing that helps a lot. In Colossians 1:18 we learn; "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

Besides it putting Christ first in everything, it also guarantees that no man will do anything different to our Lord. Any man who does something different has preeminence in that experience and would void the verse above. If, for instance, a man was resurrected with two noses, he, and NOT Christ would have preeminence in this area of noses. In life and death the Man Jesus was "like" His brethren, and no more so than in Hebrews 2:17;

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

In life and in death and resurrection, Jesus Christ is preeminent AND this means no one can do anything different.

If this is true, then we all will be resurrected LIKE Jesus. We can safely take all that transpired in the case of our Lord Jesus as our portion too. Our Lord went to great lengths to prove that He was physical, he excluded any chance of being a "spirit" being, and He still bore His wounds in His resurrection body. And when, some 2,000 years later, He bursts through the clouds "the Jews will look upon Him Whom they PIERCED" (Ps.22:16, Zech.12:10, Matt.24:31, Jn.19:37, Rev.1:7).

Let it be settled forever. Our Lord Jesus does not possess a body made of spirit-substance. He was a physical Man to save men, and He is a physical Man to take possession of the Earth - as God ordained in Genesis 1:26-28 and 2:7. And if so, then (i) no other man will do anything different, and (ii) there is no record of a man having a body of spirit-substance.

And if the argument is put forward from 1st Corinthians 15:50-54 that we are to be "changed", ... then the change is that we will not LIVE by blood. In various scriptures like Genesis 9:4, the human is kept alive by his blood. If his blood is shed he dies. From the blood are the issues of life, disease  and procreation (Act.17:26). But when Eve was built to be "meet" for Adam, she was "flesh and bones" (Gen.2.23). The blood is conspicuous by its absence. And so is the Church, which is built by men in resurrection, "flesh and bones" (Lk.24:39, Eph.5:30). The re-birth makes us sons of God having God's life and nature. According to Genesis 3:22, you do not need blood to live forever if you have eaten from the Tree of Life.

1. We are born from the womb with a physical body sustained by flesh and blood
2. We are born by the Holy Spirit in our human spirits only (Jn.3:6)
3. We are resurrected in a physical body that is constructed by the Holy Spirit.

Thus, we are (i) "flesh and bones", (ii) members of Christ's Body being His "flesh and bones" and (iii) being Christ's Bride by being constructed by the Holy Spirit - making us physical in construction but "Spiritual" in ORIGIN (not substance)

I have thought about the eternal theological significance of what Christ paid on His cross for us. I won’t go into some aspects of what I am thinking.

It appears we will be “like” Christ in our glorified bodies and retain them for all of eternity. We have a Man standing before the Throne as our advocate.

As we all know, after Jesus’s ascension, he appeared to doubting Thomas and His disciples in His glorified body, not with His full glory. Jesus retained his wounds, scares, and probably His disfigurement.

Could it be Jesus will retain all His wounds and scars for all eternity as a testament of His sacrifice?

[Dennis1209]

On 8/18/2022 at 7:49 AM, tim_from_pa said:

My point exactly.  Ecclesiastes is the fate of a man in the flesh who did not know Christ.  Unless one is born of the Spirit there is no eternal life.  He just dies like the rest of the animals.  With the Spirit we are raised to life eternal as Jesus was.  The Spirit was foreshadowed by the feast of Weeks aka Pentecost. Before then the Spirit was not given to mankind although may have influenced him along side of him such as the patriarchs, prophets, some Kings and so forth. Passover, Unleavened Bread and Weeks was fulfilled at the first coming at those appropriate times.  The latter feasts did not occur yet, and foreshadow events here at the Second coming in the future.  

Yes sir, I'm not telling you something you already do not know, it is a fascinating subject to discern. As you know the word "feasts" can be literally interpreted as "appointed times." I am not going to bore you or anyone with my thoughts, other than to say...

Matthew 25:13 (KJV) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Of all the feasts which one is the day and hour unknown in advance? The Feast of Trumpets has 100 blasts of the shofar (or trumpet), the last one being the longest and loudest.

Leviticus 23:2 (KJV) Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. 

C̵ONVOC̵A´TION, n . [L. convocatio.] The act of calling or assembling by summons.

I'd continue, but I think the preceding hints at my thoughts. 

[tim_from_pa]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

...

Of all the feasts which one is the day and hour unknown in advance? The Feast of Trumpets has 100 blasts of the shofar (or trumpet), the last one being the longest and loudest.....

 

Yes, that is right.  Passover/Unleavened Bread was during full moon, Pentecost was 50 days later (after Firstfruits), and in the 7th month all the feasts were likewise during the month except Trumpets. They waited for the sighting of the moon so they did not know the day nor hour of the month's beginning, so that was a surprise, but the other feasts would follow after the declaration of the month, so they were known.  That all said, they knew when the month's beginning was at the doorstep watching for signs until they saw the moon.

[JohnD]

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV)
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The resurrection of the dead will be the merging together of what is distinct in this life:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV)
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

In the resurrection:

 

[AdHoc]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:25 AM, Dennis1209 said:

I have thought about the eternal theological significance of what Christ paid on His cross for us. I won’t go into some aspects of what I am thinking.

It appears we will be “like” Christ in our glorified bodies and retain them for all of eternity. We have a Man standing before the Throne as our advocate.

As we all know, after Jesus’s ascension, he appeared to doubting Thomas and His disciples in His glorified body, not with His full glory. Jesus retained his wounds, scares, and probably His disfigurement.

Could it be Jesus will retain all His wounds and scars for all eternity as a testament of His sacrifice?

Apologies for the delayed answer. Visitors.

Two things might shed some light on the matter;

1.  The Greek word we render "glory" means "made apparent". In the case of our Lord Jesus His glory was already there before His death and resurrection. But it is a moral glory. It displays the Father in how He deals with this life. His flesh "veiled" him (Heb.10:20). Then, on the Mount of Transfiguration His glory as World Ruler is displayed. Then, His resurrection "made apparent" that all sin and sins had been atoned for. Then, His glory as judge of the Nations in Matthew 25:31-32 is another glory - the glory of He Who "regenerates" the cursed earth. This extends to His glory at the White Throne. In one the earth will flee (Rev.20) - the glory of the Creator of the "renewed (lit. Gk.) Heaven and Earth".

In our human way of ranking things we could probably make a case for revelation of progressive glory. But my view of my Lord Jesus is that His moral glory in going to the cross exceeds His glory as Creator. The universe was made with ease - Golgotha was decided in bloody sweat.

2.  The grammar of 1st Corinthians 15 settles the issue of the body for me.

Verse 4 and 32 there is no living body. It is dead bodies that are raised. It is the body that died that is raised again.

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not?

Verse 35-44 present us NOT with two bodies, but with the same body. What is different between the Body in life and death and the Body in Resurrection is not that it is a new body but that it has undergone two processes. (i) It been changed and made fit for the Kingdom (vs.50-54), and (ii) whereas it was knit in the womb to make it earthy, natural and carnal and then molded back to the elements, it is reconstructed by the Holy Spirit (2nd Cor.5:1-5) which makes it heavenly and spiritual.* The process of resurrection is like a seed planted which changes form but not chemistry. Finally, look at the grammar in many verses. "IT" (the body that dies) and "IT" (the same body) is raised ... . "IT" (the body that we lived in) is planted and "IT" (the body we lived in) is raised.

The Holy Spirit (not I) thought that only "fools" would think otherwise (verse 36)!

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body*. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

* As I have posted before, "Spiritual" can have two meanings;
1.  Be of spirit substance like God is (Jn.4:24)
2.  Have its ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit
In Luke 24 our Lord Jesus went to great lengths to show that His resurrection Body was number 2. He pointedly said it was not spirit substance (Lk.24:39)

[DeighAnn]

There is an earthly kingdom promised to Israel, Abrahams seed.  If you are a Christian you are Abrahams seed and the circumcision IS of the heart.  The lost sheep Christ came for are the Church.  The lost sheep are of Israel.  The Church is of Israel.  The 10 Northern tribes were scattered to the world forgetting who they were basically becoming the gentiles that became the Church.  The church is Israel.  Israel are Gods people.  Israel are who the promises were made to.  There is not Jew NOR Greek all  who come to Christ are the LORDS PEOPLE.   The church is the Lords people.  

There is not a single verse that says the church is going to heaven 'as a group'  not ever.  Not at the 2nd advent.  

The church is going to MEET the Lord in the air and they are going to CONTINUE ON IN THE DIRECTION  Jesus is heading for the Day of Vengeance when He comes with His angels.  

The KINGDOM of Heaven is NEVER going to cease to exist on the earth.  The throne of David is where the Lord will sit and rule the earth with a rod of IRON.  

WHAT happens to a house divided?   Why would you promote that?

Who is not worthy of the KINGDOM?  Those who wont pick up their cross and FOLLOW HIM.  

How are we KEPT from temptation?  The gospel armor

Who will see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not?  THE CHURCH.  

People want to say JESUS wasn't talking to the CHURCH in the gospels UNTIL it comes to John and then it's all about the church.  BUT JESUS WAS SPEAKING TO CHRISTIANS OUR FORE FATHERS those who brought the Scriptures to us and He was speaking NOT TO THE JEWS but to the Jews who had become Christians were spreading the good news.  He wasn't talking to the JEWS NOR the UNBELIEVERS.  

DAVID was a man after GODS HEART.  GOD choose DAVID the only one to take HIS FAITH IN GOD AND FACE THE GIANT THE ARMIES WOULDN'T FACE.  

THE GENTILE church is doing the same thing today.  

23 YEARS Jeremiah told them they were going into captivity and they kept saying they weren't BUT THEY DID.   Today we have the 'church' saying you won't go into tribulation.  BUT IT WILL.  

DO not be deceived by any man.  


2 BODIES.  know HOW WE KNOW FOR SURE?  Because that is what is written.  IN THE SIMPLIEST AND MOST EASILY UNDERSTOOD WORDS.  

 

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.



WHAT IS WRITTEN? 

 There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


WHAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF THAT? 

THERE IS ONE BODY THAT IS USED FOR BOTH WORLDS

WHICH ONE IS THE DECEPTION?
 

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


WHAT IS WRITTEN?  
thou sowest NOT that body that shall be, 

WHAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF THAT?
YOU sowest the body that shall be

what is the deception?

IT IS THAT EASY TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS GIVING FALSE DOCTRINE.  

if what is written ISN'T WHAT IS MEANT then none of the words of God can be trusted.  

Don't let ANYONE WHO GIVES EXPLANATIONS LIKE 'there is a spiritual this and a spiritual that and so this doesn't mean that because it is of this and not that AND because of THAT EXPLANATION 

EVEN though it is written you sow not the body that shall be


 GOD DIDN'T REALLY MEAN NOT THE BODY THAT SHALL BE.... but meant the body that shall be

SERIOUSLY in this day and age if they use lots of their words to tell you what is simply written LIKE GOD DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WORDS TO USE TO SAY WHAT HE MEANT

WATCH OUT DECEPTION IS AFOOT.  

[Revelation Man]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:39 PM, DeighAnn said:

I haven't run across this anywhere so any opinions thoughts or insights to Scriptures that might help set it straight will be much appreciated 

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. 

Does it say anywhere that this only applies to the natural body?  

Given we are told we will never die, have been made new, been reborn,  is it possible for any part of THOSE HAVING BEEN SAVED to descend other than the natural flesh body become nothing more than a carcass going back to the dust of the earth? 

Could our spiritual body descend and still 'remain alive' without a spirit/soul? 

If our spirit ascends and our spiritual body descends and remains in the grave as the natural body decays to await the return of Christ to be raised up,  wouldn't it become corrupted? 

If corruption can not inherit incorruption 15:50, and the spiritual body has been corrupted, then how does it inherit incorruption when it is raised when Christ returns?

There is a natural body and a spiritual body. The Spiritual body is made alive in Christ, the flesh body was born in sin and thus will always be corrupted, even those born after Jesus starts ruling in Jerusalem fir 1000 years will have Corrupt Sin Flesh, but they will not have Willful Sin in their lives because the tempter Satan will be locked up. They will have sin, but it will be things they fail to do that they should do, like visiting the sick etc. as in Sins of Omission. Thus if one reads 1 Cor. 15 properly, we see it is saying we are raised as Spirit bodies (uncorruptible) not as flesh men which have been corrupted. 

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;(Flesh bodies) it is raised in incorruption )NO CORRUPTION or as a Spirit Man which has no corruption because we are in Christ):

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;(flesh man) the last Adam was made a quickening spirit 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (Simply means our corrupt flesh can not enter heaven, which means we do not

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {{{this simply means unlike the ones who died and went to what the Jews called paradise/holding place for souls of men and then get raised at the very end, we who are living at the time of the Rapture will CHANGE or die and travel to heaven as spirit men, just like those raided Without Corruption or sin flesh.

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump(Jesus saying the harvest of souls is over): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible(as spirit men), and we shall be changed(we die and go also as Spirit men with no corrupt sin flesh).

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption(TRANSLATION: This sin flesh must go away, then  our Spirit man in Christ goes to be with the Lord, where we will get  NEW BODY (white robe), and this mortal must put on immortality.

It is very, very true, we never die, which is why Rev. 19:20 says the Ant-Christ/Beast is cast into hell alive even though Dan. 7:11 says the Anti-Christ/Beasts body is destroyed (dies) and then he is cast into hellfire. Of course we all die, no sin flesh can enter heaven, that is what Paul means by we are changed, we die and go to heaven as spirit men just like those raised without corruption or sin flesh.

I know, to all those who think we go straight to heaven, this seems strange, but the holy word explains it plainly, we are only raised at the very end, but if we are alive we will be changed, or die and go as spirit men.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

The spirit goes immediately to Heaven or Hell until the resurrection. Then both will be rejoined for eternity. It's not complicated but many try to make it so.

[AdHoc]

On 8/27/2022 at 4:55 AM, DeighAnn said:

There is an earthly kingdom promised to Israel, Abrahams seed.  If you are a Christian you are Abrahams seed and the circumcision IS of the heart.  The lost sheep Christ came for are the Church.  The lost sheep are of Israel.  The Church is of Israel.  The 10 Northern tribes were scattered to the world forgetting who they were basically becoming the gentiles that became the Church.  The church is Israel.  Israel are Gods people.  Israel are who the promises were made to.  There is not Jew NOR Greek all  who come to Christ are the LORDS PEOPLE.   The church is the Lords people.  

There is not a single verse that says the church is going to heaven 'as a group'  not ever.  Not at the 2nd advent.  

The church is going to MEET the Lord in the air and they are going to CONTINUE ON IN THE DIRECTION  Jesus is heading for the Day of Vengeance when He comes with His angels.  

The KINGDOM of Heaven is NEVER going to cease to exist on the earth.  The throne of David is where the Lord will sit and rule the earth with a rod of IRON.  

WHAT happens to a house divided?   Why would you promote that?

Who is not worthy of the KINGDOM?  Those who wont pick up their cross and FOLLOW HIM.  

How are we KEPT from temptation?  The gospel armor

Who will see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not?  THE CHURCH.  

People want to say JESUS wasn't talking to the CHURCH in the gospels UNTIL it comes to John and then it's all about the church.  BUT JESUS WAS SPEAKING TO CHRISTIANS OUR FORE FATHERS those who brought the Scriptures to us and He was speaking NOT TO THE JEWS but to the Jews who had become Christians were spreading the good news.  He wasn't talking to the JEWS NOR the UNBELIEVERS.  

DAVID was a man after GODS HEART.  GOD choose DAVID the only one to take HIS FAITH IN GOD AND FACE THE GIANT THE ARMIES WOULDN'T FACE.  

THE GENTILE church is doing the same thing today.  

23 YEARS Jeremiah told them they were going into captivity and they kept saying they weren't BUT THEY DID.   Today we have the 'church' saying you won't go into tribulation.  BUT IT WILL.  

DO not be deceived by any man.  


2 BODIES.  know HOW WE KNOW FOR SURE?  Because that is what is written.  IN THE SIMPLIEST AND MOST EASILY UNDERSTOOD WORDS.  

 

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.



WHAT IS WRITTEN? 

 There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


WHAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF THAT? 

THERE IS ONE BODY THAT IS USED FOR BOTH WORLDS

WHICH ONE IS THE DECEPTION?
 

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


WHAT IS WRITTEN?  
thou sowest NOT that body that shall be, 

WHAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF THAT?
YOU sowest the body that shall be

what is the deception?

IT IS THAT EASY TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS GIVING FALSE DOCTRINE.  

if what is written ISN'T WHAT IS MEANT then none of the words of God can be trusted.  

Don't let ANYONE WHO GIVES EXPLANATIONS LIKE 'there is a spiritual this and a spiritual that and so this doesn't mean that because it is of this and not that AND because of THAT EXPLANATION 

EVEN though it is written you sow not the body that shall be


 GOD DIDN'T REALLY MEAN NOT THE BODY THAT SHALL BE.... but meant the body that shall be

SERIOUSLY in this day and age if they use lots of their words to tell you what is simply written LIKE GOD DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WORDS TO USE TO SAY WHAT HE MEANT

WATCH OUT DECEPTION IS AFOOT.  

You did not quote me, but you addressed points I made. That you disagree is noted and respected. But what is strange is that you never address the argument. It is not complicated. The resurrection is a planting and a harvest. The farmer plants some seeds and these seeds come out of the ground in due time different in form but not substance. A grain of wheat has its outer shell shattered and releases the substance in itself to form an ear of the SAME SEEDS. Nothing is added.

"SO" is the resurrection. The body that is lifeless is planted. At the call of God and the trumpet "IT" (the same body) emerges from the grave. But now it was not knit in the womb but knit by the Holy Spirit (Rom.8:11). This is what makes it "spiritual". You cannot say that a resurrected body is "spiritual" and mean that it is a new and different body. Our Lord Jesus went to lengths to show that His resurrection body was NOT "spirit" and that "IT" (the body He was crucified in) still had the wounds in it.

These points are the facts of the text, the facts of grammar, the facts of nature, and the facts of logic. You have to reassess your view. It's not a sin to have held a wrong view. We are all on journey that takes time. It takes respectful debate and the freedom to put forward an argument. Then we can compare notes. The word "TILL" means it takes time ...

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 ...; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (Eph 4:13–16)

All these shouts about "DECEPTION" are attempts to stop what every joint should supply. Rather, by sustained logical argument, prove your point. The others will then see the "deception" - or, the plain mistake.

Go well sister.